Don't understand affairs

[diploc]

Having read recently on these boards about the terrible upset affairs cause, I was thinking - are a lot of affairs really just about fantasy?
Rather than being in love with the other person, could an AP really in actual fact be in love with the idea of an idealised love?

"I think that's incredibly simplistic. "

Because it is incredibly simplistic. Doing the right thing. And it's got nothing to do with monogamy. Whether you do or don't believe people should be monogamous is irrelevant. It's doing the right thing. Not having an affair. Not cheating. If the person isn't right for you, then leave, don't cheat.

[quote Oblomov22]@DetailMouse

Or, even if all those things do happen. You still have a moment. A moment to decide. You make a choice. You can decide no, even then, and to do the right thing and talk, address the core issue, and ultimately split, if that's the right thing, rather than decide to cheat. We all have that choice. [/quote]
Yes I've said that, but once you make the wrong choice it's done and there's no way back.

People make the wrong choice over much more simple things every day. In really hard circumstances all people are going to make the wrong choice sometimes. Just because it hasn't happened to you yet, don't let yourself become smug about it, at least be open to the possibility, otherwise you really will be vulnerable to it

Hurting someone unnecessarily is against my personal moral code, sure, but you'll also hurt someone by ditching them in favour of someone else, whether you're 'supposed to' or not.

Yes this is definitely a big part of it when ordinary decent people have affairs. If you leave and tell them you want to be with someone else, you know it will hurt them and you don't want that. If you can keep it quiet there's a chance they'll never get hurt.

Ester Perel writes some interesting theories on affairs. She says they come about because human beings are curious, fickle, and greedy. I think that's a pretty accurate basis.

I had an affair, it's not black and white at all.
I was happily married we were all friends, they were not happy, there relationship was akward and many times shocking to see, but we were all friend for 16 years it became the norm.
He ine night was drunk told me how h3 felt and i said no syraight away, never even entered my head. And years went on and on he was over touchy and confided in me, we were all so close but we became closer, i will admit i felt sorry for him, i could see what he was going through and did for many years, i heard his wife slag him off for many years.
The more attention i gave him the less i gave to my husband and we struggled, i bent over backwards to try be there for them both but ultimately we became closer and closer, it became a emotional affair. So yes when he told me he was unhappy wanted to leave loved me i believed it, i saw it for myself.
My own stupid fault gor putting more effort into that friendship than my marriage.
I justified it in my head " oh she is awful to him doesnt live him, he doesn't love her" then the worst part is how i justified my own marriage "he doesn't talk to me or understand me like this man" well of course he didn't he never stood a chance my husband got oushed to the side, i wrapped up in friends words and how much he loved me. I never EVER thought i would do something like this ever, but there i was my anxiety was sky high i felt on tender hooks constantly.
All came to a head friend wanted to leave relationship and decided to tell everyone how he really felt about me and us.
What happend in the end? Well my best friend' this man who i risked everything for told everyone and said to me we would be together, so it all came out, next day im blocked from everything, he has put thwre house up for sale and moved 5hrs away with his wife (to be with his family) told them all it was me who made him say all that and i manipulated him.
My life was left in tatters, husband left me, kids hated me, my mum was in her last months of illness and shortly died after so had no one. That was 7 months ago and i never ever heard from him again.

I blame myself for being a idiot, for believing him, for putting him first.
My life was happy before this and i ruined it.

So to anyone right now riding this affair thinking your man is diffrent than thoes other ones, don't believe it, its not worth the hurt to anyone else.

Always lots of married men on dating sites. Some are open from the start. Others reveal it once they think they have you hooked and less likely to tell them to fuck off.

It would seem, from conversations I've had with guys that an affair happens because the women involved is something 'different' not necessarily 'better' than their existing partner/wife. It's the adrenaline, excitement, teenage feelings that naturally, are not the every day in a LTR. Most of these guys want their marriage, not looking to divorce, just wanting a bit extra too. A by extra, I mean sex.

Ends in tears almost every time obviously.

I don't need to be open to the possibility. It isn't a possibility. Not to me. Maybe you don't feel that strongly about it. I might kill someone. If I needed to, I would. But an affair? No. Not a chance. Never.

Sorry for all the spelling mistakes

Better to end the "dead" relationship (marriage, partnership) before beginning a new one.

@DetailMouse

I honestly don't think anyone can say they would never have an affair with complete certainty.

There's a perfect storm of circumstances that makes us all vulnerable. High pressure working environment, attractive colleague who understands the issues in a way that no one else does, maybe a bereavement that concides with the spouse's mother being ill so the care required at home to deal with the bereavement isn't as available or spouse has a new hobby that means they're not always "there" when needed. Maybe some financial pressures or children issues that just make homelife really hard... Add in a splash of alcohol and/or a trip away and suddenly people who would never dream of it are in it up to their necks.

A lot of people who have affairs look back and can't quite believe it was them.

I thought I would NEVER have an affair, until I did. I was astounded by myself - the fact that I could actually do that, I didn't think I was capable. But clearly I was.

At the end of the day my drive to be with that person, was more than I felt for my DH, sad but true. Why didn't I just leave to start with? I don't know, but I knew once I had crossed that line there was no going back for me, and it was me that ended our marriage. It was a huge relief.

People do not ' dispose' of their children when marriages fail

Unfortunately some do forget about their children along with the ex.

Some people when they enter marriage, view that marriage when children come along as a unit that should be preserved at any cost, others view themselves separately, as a single unit that believe their own happiness is more important than the family happiness.

Affairs affect children very badly in many ways and the repercusions of them, to me they are part and parcel of what you should be thinking about when having your ego stroked.

It really isn't hard to resist temptation, it's not impossible, I've known exactly who fancied me during my lifetime and it was quite easy to not even allow them to get to the propositioning stage of conversation.

If I had allowed them access then I would have been fully aware I was going to hurt someone and that's not my style.

I don't agree with Ester Perel either. I've watched a number of her podcasts and interviews and I don't agree with her views on getting over affairs. Or rather, I think few marriages grow stronger from it. Because once the lack of trust is gone, that can't be repaired.

@Muddlebubble

Honest post.

I think that's why it's best not to go for a try before you buy attitude.

Both parties of a relationship are usually best starting on an equal footing, as in both being available.

Some affairs may end up replacing the primary relationship but there will be more complications and more parties hurt from the lies and deception.

Guilt affects many relationships.

Always lots of married men on dating sites. Some are open from the start. Others reveal it once they think they have you hooked and less likely to tell them to fuck off

This was how I ended up seeing a married man.

He actually did leave his wife, but only after I'd got bored of waiting and dumped him

I think I ended up being an affair partner because Internet dating is absolutely horrific. I'd say possibly 60% of the men that contacted me (paid and free sites) were not single, I didn't chase any marred guys, but Jesus christ did they pursue me.
It takes a while to develop a thick skin and to be able to spot them easily.

@Oblomov22

I don't agree with Ester Perel either. I've watched a number of her podcasts and interviews and I don't agree with her views on getting over affairs. Or rather, I think few marriages grow stronger from it. Because once the lack of trust is gone, that can't be repaired.

Esther Perel has done extensive research into this and worked as a therapist for almost 40 years. You may not agree with her and all couples may not fit into the model (as with all psychological models) but many couples do rebuild trust.

@Muddlebubble. I’m sorry to read this, yep you made a bad choice but I wouldn’t wish this kind of shit on anyone so I really do wish you well— I’ve been on both sides of this and also experienced similar shit to you after my 1st marriage ended.

Thanks ladies, i can't say i didn't deserve it i knew what i was doing.

Completely agree if not happy you need to keave, not destroy everyone involved along the way.
I will never do that again, not in a million years, im annoyed so much as i said no for years then was a idiot.

I ruined husbands trust and my own, i would never trust anyone again, i trust friend with everything (of course he was diffrent then all the others) was my best friend and the man i thought i loved. Embarrassed and humiliated and incredibly pissed at myself for hurting others

Maybe one reason of many is that people want to be wanted.

Sometimes a main partner treats them with scorn, contempt, doesn't treat them kindly or with love, doesn't appreciate them etc.

When that happens, what the couple should do is communicate about either improving the relationship or splitting up.

But often that's too hard. Whether because of money or emotions, kids, house, life.

So people look for other people who want them. Ie an affair partner.

It's so so sad, but happens so often in the above pattern.

@timestheyarechanging things can't be right in a relationship if one partner decides to have an affair We don't live in a romantic Disney Princess world. Relationships have their ups and downs - all of them. Weighing it up, my exh evidently felt that although I might not be his favourite partner at that moment, I was still his second choice if it didn't work out with the OW. (Yay!)
As I say, he had been working away - he's a workaholic at the best of times, but for 3 years he came home on a Friday and left on a Sunday. Of course our relationship suffered from that. Should I have therefore expected him to have an affair? Dumped him before he could? Was it wrong of me to think that I should wait it out and hope that things got better when he got posted nearby again? Then his mother died and he began acting contemptuously towards me and the children - was that the moment I should have left, after his mum died?
Great that things fell into place for you and you were able to choose the right moment to get out before an affair took place. Maybe it is easier to get the timing right when you are the one considering an affair: you know what the issue is. But as I say, it was clearly not that black and white for my exh.

@DetailMouse

Hurting someone unnecessarily is against my personal moral code, sure, but you'll also hurt someone by ditching them in favour of someone else, whether you're 'supposed to' or not.

Yes this is definitely a big part of it when ordinary decent people have affairs. If you leave and tell them you want to be with someone else, you know it will hurt them and you don't want that. If you can keep it quiet there's a chance they'll never get hurt.

I don't agree with this logic at all, and I don't believe it is a genuine desire to stop the other person getting hurt rather than a psychological aid to allow the cheating partner to continue to cheat and still feel good about themselves.

People are entitled to agency over their own lives. And to do that they need to have knowledge over their own lives. And that includes knowledge of what their relationship actually is. They get to decide if they want to stay with a partner who has started a relationship with someone else. The cheater has no right to keep all that power to themselves.

There is no morality in removing someone' s agency from their own life and telling yourself you are doing it for their own good.

Absolutely, i never is black and white, why onr person does it is completely different to another.
Many many women stay after an affair (as do men of course) and they all have there own reasons.
My affair partner told his wife he didn't love her, he was actually brutal, and she packed up and moved with him.
It's one thing that never enters your mind when doing it, how it will affect others, it is a purely selfish act which i admit to just worrying about your own issues and pushing everything else away.

An affair partner is never any better than the wife/girlfriend/partner.

What do you mean by "better"? And how do you know this "never" happens?

I think some affairs are about fantasy, some aren’t. Really hard to generalise or categorise as someone will always have had a different experience to anything posted here. Each set of circumstances or people involved are all different so there as many reasons/types of affair as there are people.
Two things strike me about affairs which seem to be a commonality: the difficulty in being able to separate the magnifying effects that the secrecy and risk have on their feelings, and the utter devastation and agony affairs cause.

Sooo...fantasy or reality? The affair relationship is real in that it’s actually happening, but it is operating within a kind of ‘fantasy’ environment. If not fantasy, then fake at the very least. Normal out-in-the-open relationships don’t function like this, snatched moments are more exciting than a sure-thing dinner date next Tuesday. The thrill of the chase in any relationship is always exciting. Affairs are one long ‘thrill of the chase’ as the resolution of the relationship is perpetually in question. Risk, uncertainty, longing.... huge magnifiers of emotions and the bread and butter of affairs. And if you like that kind of high, in an affair relationship it never lets up.

Also believing that “anyone who would risk this much to be with me must really love me..” is far more romantic than single people risking next to nothing except possibly hurt pride if you get stood up: “he’s asked me on a date next week so he must like me, hope he turns up”.
Normal relationships operate without anywhere near this level of risk, so the initial excitement and thrill of the chase is more short lived.
Therefore it’s hard to know if the feelings experienced in the affair situation are as real as they undoubtedly seem, or will carry over into a ‘normal’ relationship once both parties are single. The only way to know this is to change the situation and both become single, let reality intrude and remove the illicit aspects of the situation which magnify the longing, the idealising of the affair partner, the adrenaline rush, the ‘if only”s .
Once this happens because of discovery, more often than not the rose tinted specs are removed and “Oh shit what have I done?” takes over. Yes, sometimes if it’s an exit affair and the primary relationship was truly dead, the feelings remain and the relationship lasts, but more often than not people go back to their primary partner, if they’re allowed to.
Idealising stops and in being finally forced to weigh up both relationships instead of demonising one and glorifying the other, one or both affair partners see that actually their primary relationship holds far more value to them.
Sadly an affair partner who wanted the affair relationship and is left in the dust, continues to view the person they had the affair with as their soulmate, because they are still in the (now empty) affair bubble. They have no idea how someone who ‘loved’ them and ‘couldn’t live without them’ last week has just told them it’s over and gone home for good. The painful longing and idealising continues for them, because they never got the chance for the mystery and exciting to become the ordinary and mundane. Excuses for the departure of the AP soften the blow “he loves me but he’s nobly being dutiful to his wife and family...he’s enduring his awful marriage for his children...he really loves me but it wasn’t meant to be...we are soulmates who just met at the wrong time....” But actually these post rationalisations just perpetuate and magnify the feelings even more. Reality still hasn’t hit. The deserted AP remains in the affair bubble, still idealising and longing, but without their affair partner, with agonising results, as you often see on here when OW threads crop up. Deserted women agonising about the affair break up and trying to stay non contact, and refusing to see any negative aspects of the man who left them, or even being able to describe his negative aspects then saying ‘but I can’t resist him....he’s my soulmate...etc’. Still clearly in the (now empty) affair bubble and trying to cling to the way it used to make them feel. The comparison to drug addiction springs to mind. “I know it’s really bad for me but it felt so good and I want to carry on chasing the high.” Did the high really come from the affair partner themselves, or did the emotional magnifying lens of the affair bubble distort how they would have viewed them in a relationship which operated under ‘normal’ conditions? The nature of affairs skew your feelings. Impossible during the affair to view affair partners without the affair magnifying lens, and view primary partners without the affair minimising lens. Affair storylines in soap operas always boost viewing figures. Do we like to see that our favourite heroes and heroines are flawed, like us? Do we enjoy vicariously watching others risk everything? Do we enjoy seeing affair ‘love’ as idealised romantic love, the kinds of feelings we all want in our relationships? Watching the fantasy on tv is a far better option than trying to create the fantasy in real life, which leads me to my second point about what is true about all affairs. Uncharacteristically short for me: somebody, usually everyone, involved in an affair gets hurt. Badly.

As someone who was the betrayed partner and what I have since found a out, in my exp case it has all been fantasy.

He has created a life that simply didn't exist, it was the narrative he had always wanted to be true for himself, but it never was.

He has now lost everything, including AP, the fantasy has come crashing down and he is left with people believing he is a sociopath.

I didn't know it at the time but I nearly embarked on an affair with a married man who only divulged he was married after us chatting. He called me, pursued me, asked to meet me. We met for a drink where he tells me he is happy at home, has three kids (two from a previous marriage, in which he was also unfaithful). I asked him if he was married what he was doing with me, his reply was that as unlike his first marriage, he is free to do and go places with his friends, pursue his hobbies etc. I am pretty sure that his current wife doesn't quite appreciate what his interpretation of freedom is!

I am so very interested and would love to know why "happily married" people cheat. In my case, it didn't appear to be an ego thing (he was actually very shy and happy to share his negative points quite freely).