Getting rejected by women whilst dating - is there something wrong with me

[tawaanchu]

Hi everyone,

So I am a 24 year old guy who has never been in relationship before. I have never even initiated any kiss or something with anyone and have only asked 3 girls out. I am a very social person and most of my friends are girls but I have been very anxious with girls that I fancy.

The first girl I asked out was my best friend in my high school. I sent her a long message that I have feelings for her etc. She said that she really appreciated me telling her but she did not see me that way. I apologised to her and I went along pretending that i do not care, we are still good friends.

The second girl I asked out was also one of my good friends - she also rejected me saying that she considers me as her best friend and doesn't see me like that. I apologised and promised not to bring them up again in future. We are still very good friends and even her bf now has become my good mate.

The third (and the most recent) girl I asked out was my old school friend. We started talking on instagram, realised that we attended same school, even though we live in different cities. We exchanged numbers and started talking everyday for hours. I got balls this time and I finally told her that I would like to get to know her and see a future with her and she said she enjoys talking to me as well and we could definitely see how things go. However she did warn me that she has phases where she stops talking to everyone at times. I did not take that seriously that time. I asked her on a date and we met after 3 months of continuous talking. I would have done it early but she has some travel trips.

Our first date went okayish, even though I was extremely nervous. However around one week after our first date, she literally disappeared for a week from all social media’s. When she came back and I told her whats wrong, she said she has been having a very hard time with work and it’s not about me at all, she also apologised for acting this way. Gradually texts and calls became less. I recently planned another trip to visit her and I travelled all the way to her city, we spent two days together. We had a great time and even she said it was quite fun. I again did not initiated any kiss with her nor held her hand, I was too nervous and did not want her to be scared or go over my boundaries. At the end of our long date, I asked her that I would like to see her more and we could build on something very beautiful. To this she said that ‘she will think about it’. I also told her that I have a crush on her and would appreciate if she will let me know sooner. She smiled and looked away. She kept texting me for around two days after our second date but then she again ghosted me. It has been over two weeks and she has not replied to me. I also called her couple of times and she did not respond to my calls, even though she is online and active on social media. I have a feeling that she is hiding her instagram / sc stories from and pretending that she is not online - maybe a polite way of rejecting me.

I feel so sad with this incident as I really had strong feelings for her. I am having serious self esteem issues right now. I have never even kissed anyone yet and I see all my friends are in relationships and being loved. Personally I am quite successful in my career, I have just turned 24 and finished uni + post grad, been a first class graduate, won awards academically and got a job at a top world class company.

But I am just so annoyed at myself for not being able to date someone or entering a relationship. I have literally watched relationship videos where they teach dating games and stuff. Despite being decent looking, I spent so much on my physical appearance, started going gym everyday, got good clothes, even paid over 2k on getting my teeth properly aligned. I have even tried online dating, matched with few people but just lost interest as convos went boring and I wasn't very interested in people that I matched.

I have literally so many friends and they all love me and say that I am nicest person they have ever met. I am still a virgin and have to lie to people that I am no longer virgin. I don't think I even know what flirting is. I have never even asked any random girls number in public. I get very scared to make a move because I do not want to come across as creep and weirdo. I grew up with women - my mum and my elder sisters and have had so many female friends and I get very paranoid of coming across being creep or pervert after listening to their stories with their experiences with men. Perhaps this is why I have never made a move on any girl.

It sucks being alone and being rejected from the person I really liked. I just feel so sad and lonely, and I literally hate myself. I do not know if I am just unattractive sexually or what, but I just do not want to be alone anymore.

If she ‘kept smiling and saying nothing’ does that mean you were saying this stuff more than once? It’s so uncomfortable when a man does that. Like if you were just sitting across from her saying repeatedly ‘you’re so beautiful it’s making me really nervous. I really have strong feelings for you’ that would put her off immediately. Also it seems like you struggle a bit to pick up obvious cues. I’d usually say if you repeat the same thing and someone doesn’t reply then I’d imagine they’re uncomfortable or don’t want to carry on that line of conversation.

@greasyshoes
sexlessness is higher and rising , yes it is but it is not because men are unwanted or because what women want has somehow changed … it’s about the way the modern world differs from the past

There is really good informed information , done by actual scientists that talk about the reasons for this qbd it’s got zero to do with the narrative of men being unwanted . It’s to do with marriage rates declining , with longer education. And a general change in lifestyle

Look up the article titled … just for starters . There is lots lots more good balanced research too

DECEMBER 28, 2018
Number 3 in 2018: Male Sexlessness is Rising But Not For the Reasons Incels Claim

A quick excerpt

The rise of young male sexlessness isn’t about Chads and Stacies; it isn’t primarily about Tinder or Bumble; it’s not mostly about attitudinal shifts in what women want from relationships; and it’s not mainly about some new war between the sexes. It’s mostly about people spending more years in school and spending more years living at home. But that’s not actually a story about some change in sexual politics; instead, it’s a story about the modern knowledge economy, and to some extent exorbitant housing costs. As such, it’s no surprise that rising sexlessness is being observed in many countries.

I don't think you're listening to a word anyone is saying. You don't have any insight at all into how you're coming across to these women.

Go and get therapy.

Bring this thread with you.

Stop looking for your wife. Go out with some women you like the look of. Enjoy the moment. Meet them in low pressure situations, coffee, a drink, where you're investing an hour and £20. If it goes well maybe an evening with drinks or dinner or a film or something for an hour or two that you'd enjoy.
You don't have to be husband material. You can just be having fun.

@PastMyBestBeforeDate

Stop looking for your wife. Go out with some women you like the look of. Enjoy the moment. Meet them in low pressure situations, coffee, a drink, where you're investing an hour and £20. If it goes well maybe an evening with drinks or dinner or a film or something for an hour or two that you'd enjoy. You don't have to be husband material. You can just be having fun.

This this this

Just enjoy the night out and stop worrying about whether this is your future partner

I agree with pp you really are not listening to what anyone is saying to you and still feel as if you’re so hard done by because you’re a ‘nice guy’.

I also note your use of the term ‘friendzone’. A google search will explain why that’s problematic.

If you can chat normally in a relaxed way with women you don't fancy, there's your answer. You need to just tell yourself when you see a woman you are really attracted to that she is another woman like your female friends. She is not massively different and if you are relaxed, smile and fun to be around you will likely get a positive reaction. Keep telling yourself to ignore your feelings of anxiety around women you find attractive and behave like you would with a close female friend. Women also give LOTS of non verbal cues if they like you and obviously if they agree to see you again then they at least are happy to continue to get to know you. The advice with OLD is not to wait very long to meet up. Physical spark and attraction is essential to both parties and you don't want to spend months on long soulful phone calls and then find you don't click when you meet. So try and meet after a couple of weeks of chatting/texting max. You could be wasting each other's time otherwise. See dating as practicing to get to know and feel comfortable around women, don't be intense about looking for a GF or making beautiful music together. If a woman really likes you, you will know, you won't need to guess.

You’re talking about women like they’re a puzzle to be solved rather that full humans with their own shit going on. You’ve stated that there are women you’re friends with or have met online who you’re not attracted to, so you understand the concept that there can be perfectly lovely people who through no fault of their own don’t attract you. That works both ways.

There isn’t a trick to it. There’s no correct number of chats or right clothes. Some people won’t find you attractive. That’s life.

The problem isn’t “coming across as intense” it’s being intense. Try to get out of your own head - do things socially that you find challenging - conservation volunteering, art classes, anything really. And stop thinking that there’s a magic win-the-girl formula.

Kistanbul says it perfectly , there’s no magic formula to win women
Women are not a puzzle to be solved amd cannot be catagorised as liking certain men and not others
We are as unique individuals , some will be attracted some won’t and there’s no formula

@greasyshoes

What made you realise this yourself?

There's that well known survey that came out, that said 28% of American men haven't had sex within the past year. Seems like a substantial minority of men are simply not wanted.

These men are likely to be married.🤣🤣🤭

@Hrpuffnstuff1
That’s true lol
Just like the many many women who are going without sex because their husbands are too busy on porn it simple lose their sex drive

Have you ever paused for one second, and tried to see it from these women's point of view? They somehow OWE you a quick answer as to how they feel?!!

Women owe you absolutely nothing at all. We are not responsible for your happiness. There's no point trying to figure out how to manipulate women into doing what you want (ie shagging you) because no one wants to be with that manipulative weirdo. You just have to wait until you find someone who actually likes you.

The good news is that you have good friendships, so you are someone who can relate to other people and be one half of a successful relationship when you aren't putting yourself under pressure.
I think there are a few things you are doing which if you changed would help your mind let go of its unhelpful thinking patterns/behaviours (all behaviour is an outward expression of an inner feeling or thought) and arrive at a point where life can happen in a natural way and you can connect to people without pushing them away, so things have a chance to develop at their own pace. You can't force a real bond with another person, so you need to create a situation where one can blossom by taking away your internal obstacles.
Stop looking at videos on dating strategies and relationship techniques for now, they will just make you feel bad and these behaviours are outward signs of a person's inner peace and health in terms of how they connect romantically - you can act this but if you're faking it, it will all fall down sooner or later like a house built on sand.
Instead, you need to address the root cause (something greasyshoes avoided and has built their life on a work-around from what they said, which is one way to live a life but ultimately hollow).
I think that the combination of the high stakes (something you really want) with the sense of your deepest self being weighed and judged (being chosen as someone's partner) and your history giving you a lack of faith in this, is causing this big disparity between your success as a friend (what you are really like when you relax in your relationship) and your lack of success in romance (too much going on inside you, which can be helped, take heart) .
This is totally fixable but takes work in the form of assistance from someone skilled in understanding people and helping them mend patterns that are not helping them, self awareness and willingness to take wise advice (from someone who understands where you are and how you can get to where you need to be in a way which supports long term success), so that old wounds can be put to rest and your ego (in the true sense of the word) can feel as worthy as it should.
I'm in my 40's and have done a LOT of this work after a difficult childhood and adolescence, I still carry the effects of that time with me and I'm a lot further past it than you, but the work I have done means that though the scars are there they no longer affect my life because I have been able to recognise the life lessons I was given (I am a crap person) as flawed and taken up new powerful life lessons (when I am being the real me, not only is that OK because I am not a crap person (neither are you), but also the people who appreciate that person stay in my life and enrich it, I also enrich theirs), that allow me to express my real self without barriers... at only 24 your just beginning to craft your life with your own agency, no longer subject to so many negative forces beyond your control, you stand at a threshold where if you can carve a constructive path, you can build something good. If instead you throw your hands up and declare fate made you a pariah in the world of romance like greasyshoes did then you will never leave this place you are in.
There is no magic spell of attraction that some guys have and others just don't and hard luck to those who don't, there is only between 2 people an ability to connect when each are at peace with themselves and each has a quality/qualities the other enjoys (we know you have these, you are just blocking that connection with the intensity as pp have mentioned, but that intensity is rooted in high stakes and self doubt).
You obviously have a lot of energy to apply to things you focus on... Switch your focus from hunting for a partner and comparing yourself unfavourably to others and start unpacking why you behaviour towards a romantic partner is different to a friend and what repairs you to do to your soul to resolve this. If you genuinely enter that process with a skilled counsellor I guarantee your life will improve whether romance happens soon or not because when you are at peace with your whole self you hold all the possibility of what is real coming your way.

@TopCatsTopHat

The good news is that you have good friendships, so you are someone who can relate to other people and be one half of a successful relationship when you aren't putting yourself under pressure. I think there are a few things you are doing which if you changed would help your mind let go of its unhelpful thinking patterns/behaviours (all behaviour is an outward expression of an inner feeling or thought) and arrive at a point where life can happen in a natural way and you can connect to people without pushing them away, so things have a chance to develop at their own pace. You can't force a real bond with another person, so you need to create a situation where one can blossom by taking away your internal obstacles. Stop looking at videos on dating strategies and relationship techniques for now, they will just make you feel bad and these behaviours are outward signs of a person's inner peace and health in terms of how they connect romantically - you can act this but if you're faking it, it will all fall down sooner or later like a house built on sand. Instead, you need to address the root cause (something greasyshoes avoided and has built their life on a work-around from what they said, which is one way to live a life but ultimately hollow). I think that the combination of the high stakes (something you really want) with the sense of your deepest self being weighed and judged (being chosen as someone's partner) and your history giving you a lack of faith in this, is causing this big disparity between your success as a friend (what you are really like when you relax in your relationship) and your lack of success in romance (too much going on inside you, which can be helped, take heart) . This is totally fixable but takes work in the form of assistance from someone skilled in understanding people and helping them mend patterns that are not helping them, self awareness and willingness to take wise advice (from someone who understands where you are and how you can get to where you need to be in a way which supports long term success), so that old wounds can be put to rest and your ego (in the true sense of the word) can feel as worthy as it should. I'm in my 40's and have done a LOT of this work after a difficult childhood and adolescence, I still carry the effects of that time with me and I'm a lot further past it than you, but the work I have done means that though the scars are there they no longer affect my life because I have been able to recognise the life lessons I was given (I am a crap person) as flawed and taken up new powerful life lessons (when I am being the real me, not only is that OK because I am not a crap person (neither are you), but also the people who appreciate that person stay in my life and enrich it, I also enrich theirs), that allow me to express my real self without barriers... at only 24 your just beginning to craft your life with your own agency, no longer subject to so many negative forces beyond your control, you stand at a threshold where if you can carve a constructive path, you can build something good. If instead you throw your hands up and declare fate made you a pariah in the world of romance like greasyshoes did then you will never leave this place you are in. There is no magic spell of attraction that some guys have and others just don't and hard luck to those who don't, there is only between 2 people an ability to connect when each are at peace with themselves and each has a quality/qualities the other enjoys (we know you have these, you are just blocking that connection with the intensity as pp have mentioned, but that intensity is rooted in high stakes and self doubt). You obviously have a lot of energy to apply to things you focus on... Switch your focus from hunting for a partner and comparing yourself unfavourably to others and start unpacking why you behaviour towards a romantic partner is different to a friend and what repairs you to do to your soul to resolve this. If you genuinely enter that process with a skilled counsellor I guarantee your life will improve whether romance happens soon or not because when you are at peace with your whole self you hold all the possibility of what is real coming your way.

I think you're wrong in your assessment, there isn't a 'Magic' spell, some men will attract and be more comfortable around women. Whether that's a material quality eg looks or an immaterial ability to socialize comfortably with women is debatable. Some men have both.

My own personal theory is some men are just quite plainly a 'bit of twit'.

This has accelerated over the past 30 yrs.

There isn't a magic spell, but qualities that attract others can be popular or niche. There will always be some men who attract loads of women through charismatic qualities, that isn't the only kind of attraction though.
I've seen loads of threads on here where a female is frustrated because they've got a guy whose problems stem from their refusal to consider any personal self development.
Are you really saying to someone of 24 who is carrying some past difficulties that reaching their potential is not going to happen if they try. You should have seen me at 24, I was a wreck but not now. Op doesn't need to attract all women he just needs to prevent himself from sabotaging the possibility of genuine connections.

You sound very well-intentioned and polite, and I think you sound lovely.

My suggestion is to talk, very honestly, to the two girls who are your friends about this. They know you well, and obviously care about you. Ask them what it is about you that may put women off. It may be something specific, or it may just be you haven't met the right person yet.

I wish you lots of luck.

I went out on three dates with someone like you. He told me he loved me on the third date, and the intensity frightened the pants off me (not literally). He was a nice guy, but it was too much. I didn’t see him again.

@TopCatsTopHat

There isn't a magic spell, but qualities that attract others can be popular or niche. There will always be some men who attract loads of women through charismatic qualities, that isn't the only kind of attraction though. I've seen loads of threads on here where a female is frustrated because they've got a guy whose problems stem from their refusal to consider any personal self development. Are you really saying to someone of 24 who is carrying some past difficulties that reaching their potential is not going to happen if they try. You should have seen me at 24, I was a wreck but not now. Op doesn't need to attract all women he just needs to prevent himself from sabotaging the possibility of genuine connections.

Personal self-development is correct-hence my harsh funny quip about some men being a bit of a twit. Far too many think there either in a love island program or a Donnie Darko introspective life movie.

I think with anything in life a person has to have a goal, dedicate some time to your endeavors. And also be prepared for both failures and outright rejection in inter-personal relationships.

These men are likely to be married
I heard the opposite explanation - that people are marrying later. These days men are more likely to just be having short relationships with breaks in between when in their 20s. In the olden days they'd have been going to bed with their wives every night. Women tend to marry at a slightly earlier age, so the number of young women having regular sex is a bit higher.
And the population is getting older. The number of men aged 65 and older has shot up. So there are more who want less sex, or can't get it up as easily!

I've seen loads of threads on here where a female is frustrated because they've got a guy whose problems stem from their refusal to consider any personal self development
This is one of the main problems! OP does seem willing to take criticism on board, and listen to new ideas. I do hope he manages to sort the wheat from the incel chaff.

Asking his female friends is a nice idea, but his friends are young and relatively inexperienced at relationships, too.

You're doing things the other way around from other people. First you decide you like someone, then you decide you love them, then you decide you want a future with them, then you decide you want children with them, then you decide you want to live together somewhere with good schools and THEN you ask them out for a date.

Other people go: hm, seems nice, about the same intelligence level, might be fun or have something in common, let's go on a date to get to know each other a bit. Decide if it was fun enough for a second date, then (or after several dates) decide if it might be relationship material. Start relationship/very regular dating but also hanging out at home together. Then after months, maybe years decide to cohabit or whatever.

The way you are doing it, makes it akward and intense and out of step with the other person. You need to start to date. See it as a learning process at first. It will be much easier to handle rejection if you don't care about them yet and gives you a chance to explore dating. You will get rejections, that is very, very normal. We all do. Don't give up, just try to have fun while you're doing this dating thing.

And 24 is pretty young. I think that DH was still a virgin at that age, plus an ex of mine, and my SIL. All went on to have multiple relationships. It just seems that everyone has sex, but enough are just saying that while it's not true.

Good luck

I have absolutely received some top level advice on here which has completely changed my perspective, I wish I knew it before. I always thought relationships are like that they show in movies, where you catch feelings for someone first and then tell them later. I have been so naive with my dating life all this while. I also need to work big time on my self esteem. It has always been that the girls I didn’t like, wanted me whilst the ones I liked, pushed me away. I only used to ask girls out after catching feelings for them. Perhaps this was the reason why they pushed me away. I wish they teach these things lol, all my life I have been a nerd without understand how dating/relationships actually work.

Thank you so much everyone and wish me luck!

Relationships work like other wonders of nature. You pick a seed you like the look of, plant it and see what grows. If germinated you water it and maybe it becomes a big strong plant, maybe it lasts one season maybe longer.
You have to follow your curiousity, start small and patiently wait and see. Poetically sounds like a corny analogy, and it is, but it's true though, and if you picture it like this it might help you stop trying to start in the middle /at the end.

Wishing you much good luck!

It has always been that the girls I didn’t like, wanted me whilst the ones I liked, pushed me away.

That’s interesting. Is there any other way to split these categories? Are you only interested in girls with certain looks while rejecting the thought of anyone else? That’s something I commonly see in certain groups online and although they insist they ‘can’t get a girlfriend’ it’s because they’re trying to hook up with a Scarlet Johansson while being no Chris Hemsworth themselves, and think girls are bitchy/friendzoning them/unfair when actually they themselves wouldn’t look at a girl who doesn’t meet those physical attributes.

Just thinking back to you saying to the girl she’s beautiful and you’re really nervous/caught strong feelings after two dates etc. It sounds like you might be fixated on looks. Because realistically there’s no way you’re actually ‘catching strong feelings’ for women you’ve never dated/dated briefly. At best it’s a rush of lust/excitement.

@ravenmum

I've seen loads of threads on here where a female is frustrated because they've got a guy whose problems stem from their refusal to consider any personal self development This is one of the main problems! OP does seem willing to take criticism on board, and listen to new ideas. I do hope he manages to sort the wheat from the incel chaff.

Asking his female friends is a nice idea, but his friends are young and relatively inexperienced at relationships, too.

Yes so true , there are men who call themselves funny and think they are somehow charismatic or ‘ catches ‘ eheb they just come across as arrogant Making sweeping generalisations about other men being stupid etc They are so far up themselves they can’t see that they have a whole lot of sexist ideas about men and women and don’t have any interest in self development . A massive turn off to most women it at least those who seek a personal. Who wants to grow with them Don’t become one of them OP and you will be fine