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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

My partner has no aspirations or wants of his own

115 replies

theautumnalmanac · 19/02/2022 17:56

For background, my partner and I have been together for 12 years (since we were teenagers). He is kind, selfless and a brilliant dad to our 16 month old son). He's the kind of person who would drive to the other side of the city if you just happened to have a craving for a certain ice cream for example. Sounds great, right?

While he means well, this means that I end up making a huge proportion of decisions. I decide how we eat, live and spend our free time. Meal planning, food shopping, cooking, cleaning, clothing our son, and thinking about the weekend all fall to me because partner is not empowered to make any of these decisions.

When I have spoken to him about this, asked what he would like, he says that all he wants is for DS and I to be happy.

I should mention, he does not respond well to criticism and when we discussed this today, he shouted 'what do you want from me??' on paper, it sounds sort of understandable but is it really unreasonable of me to crave someone who will come up with a way we can all spend time together. Absolutely anything - let's all bake together, let's all go out to eat, let's go to a soft play centre, how about I get my parents to watch DS and I'll take you out.

I have booked a couple of nights way for my 30th soon, just me and him. I didn't expect him to pay or anything but he doesn't seem to want to sit and plan the trip with me, contribute any ideas or anything. It just does not occur to him to make romantic gestures or plan surprises.

I'm sorry this is a bit of a mad jumble. I just wanted to get everything down to hear people's thoughts.

OP posts:
theautumnalmanac · 19/02/2022 20:57

@EmmaH2022 thank you for sharing this. It's useful for someone coming from that perspective to respond. May I ask, how are you in a relationship? What do you value? I sometimes wonder if we struggle some times due to conflicting love languages.

OP posts:
theautumnalmanac · 19/02/2022 21:01

@EarthSight if Im honest, he's lost a lot of his identity. He sold his motorbike and all of his music gear. He does a bit of DIY when he feels he has time to and seems to enjoy that. Otherwise he doesn't do a lot of what he loves, I can't quite get out of him what that even is.

OP posts:
LemonSwan · 19/02/2022 21:02

@badkitty

I think this is pretty common (well in my limited experience anyway). They are so used to women doing all the thinking for them and they just go along with it for an easy life. Then they get all defensive because they genuinely don't appreciate everything that goes into actually organising life. It's not great but I highly doubt he will change.
Yeah exactly this!

My mum and I have just had a 30 minute convo about how someone needs to go and kidnap Putins chef, cleaner, PA etc. If he had to do all the menial things required to survive like buying the milk, cleaning his loo and paying the bills then I am sure he wouldnt have time to invade Ukraine.

LemonSwan · 19/02/2022 21:03

^slightly off topic I know - but its the same thing!

arethereanyleftatall · 19/02/2022 21:10

@duchessofmuchos
I'm not sure it's fair to compartmentalise it like that.
In a business, yes it would be sensible to give the person who's good at planning and organising that job, and the person who's good at diy to do that.
But a relationship is different. If you don't do any planning or thinking of what you would like to do with the other person, you're sending a message that you don't care about spending time with them.

EmmaH2022 · 19/02/2022 21:14

Not the best person to comment as I'm single and childfree by choice Grin

Also, love languages as a concept makes me cringe. I have things
I like doing, but nothing I love at the mo.

But two promising relationships broke down as they were they were the sort of high achieving type who wanted the same in a partner

Big careers, high standards, perfectly ironed shirts (one guy ex military). Impeccable appearance. Knew all about posh food and how to cook it while I'm happy with a sandwich. Worked hard all week, played hard all weekend, structured activities. Tires me out just thinking about it.

I didn't join them in their lifestyle and eventually they wanted someone who did. I dumped one because I felt he nagged me, and the other was more of a natural "okay, we aren't suited". We stayed friends and occasionally drifted back until I hit 40 and he realised he did want kids (I bloody knew it!) otherwise, I think we might have been okay as long as he accepted my sloth like ways.

My dad was a bit like this too. He was all right if mum didn't want to join him mostly, but now he's gone, none of us miss the pressure to do a birthday event, have a showy gift - that he would describe as "well thought out". He used to write about 100 Christmas cards every year. Did charity work. Didn't sleep much! We got taken on educational trips everywhere at weekends, hated it.

So, as you've not said "my husband would forget insurance payments" for example, I wondered if it was less about mental load and more that he likes a slower pace of life than you do?

Eupraxia · 19/02/2022 21:15

[quote theautumnalmanac]@Eupraxia it's always been underlying but has ramped up since DS was born. When he asked that, I honestly said I thought that was a very dramatic response. He went on to say how stressful he thinks his life is and I asked calmly 'i find it hard to see from the outside why you find life stressful, please can you explain that to me?' he talked about the things that stress us all out a bit from time to time but I didn't really want to say, 'I have these stresses too, i just don't let it consume me' because I am keen for him to open up and I don't think invalidating his feelings will help if that makes sense? Am I fighting a losing battle?[/quote]
So he asked you directly what you wanted, and you
(A) didn't answer
(B) told him he was dramatic for asking
(C) enabled him to be honest about how he feels
and finally
(D) discussed his answer anyway.

I can't see he's doing much wrong. He's feeling stressed, overwhelmed, whatever, and you're not. So he's liking routine predictability, structure - something of a "boring" life, as PP said.

He's parenting while you're doing housework. Welcome to parenting - tag teaming is part of life. He's not doing nothing.

My husband and I frequently go through periods of just being too tired and worn out to do more than the essentials. We rely on the other to support us, and over the years the the person struggling swaps multiple times. If we're both struggling at the same time we accept a slower pace and lower expectations for a time. We ride the storm and come out the other side.

I see you asked Emma for her credentials. Mine are together for 26 years, married for 18 years, four children aged 7-17. My husband is my favourite person in the world.

phizog · 19/02/2022 21:23

When I was growing up the roles were reversed with my parents. My dad carried the emotional labour, the organising, planning, scheduling activities etc. My mum earned a lot more and was much more whimsical. She'd never get to work or anywhere on time if he didn't shepherd her. I remember he even used to tidy her dressing table as she was so messy. As an adult I asked him whether he got fed up of doing it all the time and he said that she had a good heart and still made him laugh, and he didn't mind it. My mum wasn't a piss taker but she hates house work, and struggles with the concept of time and planning. She's still a good mum and very good at her creative job - just not very traditional in how she viewed life. Possibly on the spectrum tbh but never diagnosed.

So I don't buy into this being a gender role problem. I think people bring different things to a relationship and the beauty is ensuring everyone is adding something to a life together. I'm much more organised and adventurous than my partner - and plan all our holidays and diaries and our future, and make most decisions. But I get paid a lot at work to do it, so I know I'll always be better at it than most people. It takes me 15 mins to do something that would take him half a day. I enjoy cooking so do it more than him. But I lived alone previously and did it all on my own anyway so it doesn't faze me.

My partner is great at DIY, much better with financial planning and also better at cleaning. And very good at sport in a way I'll never be. So he coaches me on a joint hobby. But he just isn't inspired enough to plan a good holiday or host a party. Most important is the fact that he cares about making me happy so will listen and do his best to help me how I need it. Like my dad would say, he has a good heart. And is kind. And while I do sometimes wish he were less passive, more driven etc, I also know his laidback attitude is the reason I can pursue my career and he doesn't resent me for it.

A good approach would be telling him exactly what you want him to do and why it's important to you. Some people do need more direction but if he's willing to learn, then it's less burden on you. If he isn't willing to change things though, then that's not a sign of a good partner. Stonewalling you or getting defensive isn't ok either.

TheBigDilemma · 19/02/2022 21:25

How is your sec life? Are you still a couple? It should be difficult to see him as a partner when you are practically his mum.

I’m not saying this lightly or wanting to be nasty, but that’s how many relationships die a slow death. There is a book called “The Surrendered Wife” I highly recommend it, the key is to stop nagging, you shut your mouth and let him fail, until he starts making his own decisions and taking on responsibilities.

theautumnalmanac · 19/02/2022 21:25

Thank you @EmmaH2022 apologies for love language speak. I was just trying to explain that we express gratitude and care differently to one another! I think the fact that we both value quality time is important but I find it hard sometimes that its me who has to facilitate this.

He definitely values a slower pace of life, more predictablity too. For example today he drove the 3 of us into town, I saw a parking spot right near where we needed to be and pointed it out. He drove on because he wanted to use a car park a bit further away that he has used before. Not a big thing at all but highlights our different ways of thinking.

OP posts:
EmmaH2022 · 19/02/2022 21:27

To clarify more, or to expand
I don't really think I'm a sloth

I think working long hours is enough for a lot of us. In my 20s I did evening classes too. In my 30s I didn't want to do that either and was happy to go out a couple of nights a week and warch TV the rest. There was always background stress with parental health and I used to keep an allocation of annual leave to help with them.

I think normal daily life is stressful, especially now everything seems to involve a bloody app!

I am very organised in many ways and work to keep up to date with savings and investments which has yielded good results.

Work, life admin, and throw a child into the mix...if someone said to me "you haven't put enough thought into your sister's birthday gift", I'd show them the door.

EmmaH2022 · 19/02/2022 21:29

@TheBigDilemma

How is your sec life? Are you still a couple? It should be difficult to see him as a partner when you are practically his mum.

I’m not saying this lightly or wanting to be nasty, but that’s how many relationships die a slow death. There is a book called “The Surrendered Wife” I highly recommend it, the key is to stop nagging, you shut your mouth and let him fail, until he starts making his own decisions and taking on responsibilities.

I feel as if I'm the only person thinking this, but is he actually failing at anything?
TheBigDilemma · 19/02/2022 21:30

No, he is not failing, because OP is sorting everything for him.

EmmaH2022 · 19/02/2022 21:43

@TheBigDilemma

No, he is not failing, because OP is sorting everything for him.
If OP is sorting everything, I thought she would say it explicitly, but people do seem to talk "around" subjects now.
EmmaH2022 · 19/02/2022 21:44

I'm the first person to say "leave the manchild". Maybe I'm misunderstanding obvious references.

mummykel16 · 19/02/2022 21:55

[quote theautumnalmanac]@Eupraxia it's always been underlying but has ramped up since DS was born. When he asked that, I honestly said I thought that was a very dramatic response. He went on to say how stressful he thinks his life is and I asked calmly 'i find it hard to see from the outside why you find life stressful, please can you explain that to me?' he talked about the things that stress us all out a bit from time to time but I didn't really want to say, 'I have these stresses too, i just don't let it consume me' because I am keen for him to open up and I don't think invalidating his feelings will help if that makes sense? Am I fighting a losing battle?[/quote]
Not at all, just try to explain what you really want then gently push it, these things take time

Lifeslooser · 19/02/2022 21:58

Some people are followers, some people are leaders, his a follower. Nothing wrong with it, whilst it’s a pain in your arse a follower is easier to live with than a leader.

youvegottenminuteslynn · 19/02/2022 22:34

@Lifeslooser

Some people are followers, some people are leaders, his a follower. Nothing wrong with it, whilst it’s a pain in your arse a follower is easier to live with than a leader.
Some people are equals at home.

They may have tendencies to be followers or leaders in other areas of their lives but it's not necessary to fit neatly into one of those categories in your romantic relationships. Often it's problematic as displayed in OP's situation.

Also some people are seemingly 'leaders' because they have to be. They have to step up and do the leading because the other person wont be an equal so that the emotional load and logistics of everything can be shared.

Just as some people are seemingly followers because they have overbearing partners. I'm the last person an employee or client would think of as a 'follower' rather than a leader but when I was in an abusive relationship I conceded to my ex because it was the path of least resistant and abuse.

OP is being forced into the role of 'leader' because her partner is either unwilling (strategic incompetence) or unable (why is he not seeking help so he can support her if this is the case?) to share the load. It's not fair.

EarthSight · 19/02/2022 23:19

[quote theautumnalmanac]@EarthSight if Im honest, he's lost a lot of his identity. He sold his motorbike and all of his music gear. He does a bit of DIY when he feels he has time to and seems to enjoy that. Otherwise he doesn't do a lot of what he loves, I can't quite get out of him what that even is.[/quote]
Some people have a personality, but they don't have a strong, definable identity. When asked about their tastes in music for example, they won't show any passion for one type of music and will list whatever is in the charts. Their clothes can look a bit random or a bit off on them because they feel detached from such decisions.

Maybe he's lost his way though and it's still there underneath the surface, or he's lost his zest for life in the business of working and family. This happens to a lot of people....or he's discovered who he was all along - someone who likes home comforts maybe, who wants a quiet life with his pipe & slippers ? I'm just taking guesses here. Some men want the woman to be the domestic boss telling them what to do.

I understand why you would be frustrated at the car park though XD I think there are a few issues here. You are tired of making decisions that you would rather share with someone else, and you might find his attraction to routine and predicability to be unattractive or frustrating?

EarthSight · 19/02/2022 23:26

@youvegottenminuteslynn

I think many, many women are stuck with partners who use strategic (or weaponised) incompetence to get out of doing things. Some people are genuinely not bothered about certain things not being done properly and they would be like that even if they lived by themselves, but others start doing things in a crap way because they think it trains the other person to do it for them. Or they leave it too late so the other person has no choice but to do it. They basically refuse to budge and make life as difficult as possible for the other person until their partner gives up and starts doing everything.

I remember someone telling me that in the very early stages of dating a man, he started complimenting her about how well she did certain simple domestic things. Whist some might say this as a compliment, it seemed to me that he was training her to do these things for him early on by patting her on the head with compliments whenever she did it, and deriding himself for being just rubbish at xyz. I reckon he was definitely a manchild thinking of training someone to mother him. Yuck.

imnottoofussed · 19/02/2022 23:37

To me it sounds like you both want different things from life. If he wasn't with you organising and planning activities for you all to do he would be just as happy staying at home and not doing them. So it's you who wants to do them and you who has to organise them.

Why don't you just say oh I thought we could go somewhere for the day on Saturday if you can have a look for somewhere? More of an instruction to get him to do it.

SunnydaleHSAlumna · 19/02/2022 23:38

My DH is like this. He doesn’t have any hobbies and says he just likes spending time with me, which sounds nice in theory but I kind of wish he did have hobbies. I’d love to hear him be interested in something or have something to talk about that wasn’t work or daily life. He sounds a lot like yours but we’ve been together a little bit longer and it’s honestly driving us apart, I don’t know if I can be with him anymore.

mummykel16 · 19/02/2022 23:45

[quote theautumnalmanac]@DenholmElliot I would say on the whole yes though more so in the last few years. He helped me through mental health struggles in the past which involved taking a more active role but this certainly didn't come naturally. One thing at a time sounds sensible.[/quote]
Could this be part of the problem?

WildPoinsettia · 20/02/2022 00:18

[quote theautumnalmanac]@EarthSight if Im honest, he's lost a lot of his identity. He sold his motorbike and all of his music gear. He does a bit of DIY when he feels he has time to and seems to enjoy that. Otherwise he doesn't do a lot of what he loves, I can't quite get out of him what that even is.[/quote]
But he's got a full time job and a young child. Lots of women give up their identities for a few years to focus on those things. They change overnight once they've had a baby and it's as if a vision of the baby is glued to their eyes and they can't see past it. He just sounds like that.

It's not wrong to split if there's an incompatibility. That's your decision to make.

I feel confused about this thread TBH. I first read the bit about him doing evenings with your DC and thought oh so he does all the fun stuff whilst you graft does he?! Then I read the next sentence where you say you consider all that stuff tedious. So then I thought if it's not fun for you to do parenting perhaps it's better that he does that stuff and you do housework 🤷 Is it maybe that you just don't really like being a mum and all it entails? Maybe you'll enjoy it more when he's a teenager.

Some things you should let go of. Like his family's presents. So what if they're shit? It's his family and him present buying. You can even make a point of bringing it into conversation asking what did he get you because you didn't see it before he wrapped it. Then they know it's not you, if they're the traditional type who assumes women do these things.

I'd let go of his presents too. If he doesn't get you anything without prompting or just gives you money, do the same to him. Ask him what he wants for Christmas or birthday and if he says he doesn't know, say you don't know either so he needs to decide or he's getting nothing. Then follow through on it and get him a nice card and a cake, if he doesn't let you know! I promise you he'll only do it once! Ask him every single time, unless you've seen something when you're out that you think he'd like then give that and don't worry if you've made a mistake and got it wrong. He clearly doesn't worry if he gets it wrong for other people like his family or disappointed you with his lack of effort.

The things about basic food and routine. I can't get my head around that, because that's me too! I have about 6 meals I do. I stock ingredients for all of them and pick the one I fancy that night. If I want something else I either get takeaway or take longer in the supermarket looking for something different, as a treat for myself basically, although everyone else gets it too obviously. If others wanted something different I'd expect them to cook the meal that night and to have added the ingredients to the shopping list beforehand. Breakfast is cereal and milk, every day. Packed lunches are sandwiches, fruit and a slice of cake, every day. There's no real thinking involved in any of it to wear me out.

Same with clothes. If he doesn't care, pick whatever you like for DC. Why would being able to have free rein on that decision stress you? Have summer clothes and winter clothes, have them all match then just go to the relevant drawer and put something on the DC, no thought needed. If it's winter/raining/windy add a coat for outside.

What's wrong too with mundane activities? I mean, your DC prefers daddy to mummy so daddy must be getting something right? Sorry I know that must be hard to hear.

I don't mean to generalize but consider what jobs you have too. So many times the woman has a job that's lower down the career ladder than the man due to maternity leave and being the default childcare if something goes wrong eg sick DC. So if a person has a full on job then mundane outside work is a break, no? I think the work hard play hard thing only really works for the young and invincible years! So do you have a full on job or not and if not, do you need one? Then maybe you'd lose the twitchy desire for constant newness and adventure outside of work? I don't know if that's how it would go.

Are the any tasks you can offload to him entirely? Eg cars. So he does insurance, booking in for MOT, paying parking/speeding fines admin, dropping and collecting to/from garage for repairs and servicing, keeping them clean inside and out, keeping fuel topped up. So anything car related you just tell him, then forget about it because it's his job to sort out. And go ballistic if he doesn't eg if you're late for work because you had to stop for fuel. Or if not cars, some other necessary job that you 100% delegate to him everything to do with it.

And if you want a holiday or whatever accept that he'll only share the doing of it with you not the planning. But don't then tolerate any moaning or sulking whatsoever about what the plan is. Because you asked him about the plan and he said he didn't care.

duchessofmuchos · 20/02/2022 00:43

I really relate to what you are saying Phizog. I was trying to say similar.