H raised his fist to me. What now ?

[RevFrancisSeaton]

We had a minor disagreement earlier, I shouldn't have but I raised my voice (he was talking over me so I felt I had no choice as he wasn't listening to me)

He then raised his fist to me and said "I'll punch you on the nose in a minute" what disturbs me most is I saw a look of anger cross his face and hate / contempt in his eyes

I told him not to ever threaten me with physical violence and then he back tracked and made out he was joking

My ex husband used to bully and threaten me and push me around, H knows this. I've always said it is a dealbreaker

I don't know what to do. I only work part time, we have 3 dc 7, 12 and 15. (The 15 yo is from my first, abusive marriage) I couldn't leave or afford the mortgage on my own . The kids adore him. We have a lovely life but he earns all the money, I've been poor in the past and couldn't go back to it. Yet I feel disgusted by what he did and I feel like I hate him right now

Sorry for the brain dump but I just wanted to get the whole situation down so I don't end up drip feeding

You have always said it is a dealbreaker. So is it a dealbreaker, or is it not?

Your husband knows it is a deal breaker and yet he did it anyway.

If you knew all would be okay financially etc. What would you want to do?

Are you ok now? It must have taken you back to a scary time. 💐

Are you sure he wasn't jokingthough? It was something that was commonly said as a joke to diffuse tension where I grew up. No one seriously angry would have said 'I'll punch you in the nose in a minute'

The 'anger' could have just been frustration at the situation.

Though, even if it was a joke, given your history he shouldn't have done it.

I'm no apologist, but I think you need to give it some thought.

She doesn't need to give it any thought as to whether or not he meant it. He raised his fist, made a verbal threat and looked angry. That's black and white.

@RevFrancisSeaton - hope you are OK. You have a lot to consider about your future. If you are going to stay with him, is couples' counselling an option, given that he doesn't listen to you?

Tbh I'm so upset right now that if money was no object I'd tell him to fuck off

But I would not get a mortgage on my own. We have some equity in the house but not enough to have two separate houses.

I also do work from home (beauty) and have a home salon, I've only been running this business for a year. although I've always worked it's been part time so I can be around for the children. I have never had a career type job

I also think he'd try and take the children off me - he is much cleverer than me and I know he'd run rings round me if we split and fuck me over. He has "joked" in the past about this, and said his mum would help with childcare etc so I feel like it's something he's actually considered. He earns over 50k so he could easily afford the house and bills etc on his own.. The older ones can more or less look after themselves anyway plus he can work from home. So which parent would be awarded custody? The one with a well paid flexible job and a nice house. Not me when I don't have well paid work and can't provide a decent home for them. and the kids wouldn't want to be with me in some crappy place when they could stay with dad and live in this lovely house
I'd end up alone and skint

He is divorced himself (when he was much younger long before we met) and he lost a lot in his last divorce including a house and his child who chose not to see him after he left her mum. he never fought for access etc and I think he's learned from that and would never let that happen again.

Before they bite, they bark.

Older kids are great - they’re more likely to want to live with the loving, non-violent parent (you!!) and their opinions hold a lot of weight.

Please take on board the advice and resources of other UK-based posters (sorry, I’m not, or would add the ones I know about).

You can give your children a safe haven, and it’s the most important thing you’ll ever do for them. Please try.

I’m so sorry he did this to you. How terrifying.

And no, to the PP who is excusing this piece of shit, it isn’t a joke when a man threatens you in anger. It clearly wasn’t a jokey “I’ll bop you on the nose if you don’t shush”, otherwise OP wouldn’t be feeling sick and not wanting to speak to him.

The fact that he didn’t fight for access with his previous child tells you exactly how hard he would push for it this time. It’s just a threat to keep you in line - much like his throat of violence to shut you up.

He’s not a nice man. He’s shown his true colours. What you do about that is obviously up to you, but I know I couldn’t continue to live with a man who had threatened physical violence in an argument, even if he never actually went on to be physically violent.

FWIW I recently split with my DP of 9 years after he kicked over a table and a fan in an argument. It wasn’t hard to leave him as we don’t share a home or children so the practicalities of the split were easy. But emotionally it has been so hard because he was my world. I know it won’t be easy for you with the upheaval and having to reconsider your whole life, so I don’t say it lightly. But that isn’t a reason to stay with a nasty man.

He wouldn’t be awarded full ‘custody’ (it’s not really called that in the UK) simply because he earns more and has a nice house. You need to speak to a solicitor this week and find out how things would be likely to be split. The starting point is 50/50 for assets and access, but then you take into account each persons ability to earn and provide for the DCs and that would probably be balanced out by him contributing more money and you contributing more time. Him using his mum as childcare while he works to avoid paying you child maintenance is not ok (and let’s face it that’s the only reason he would suggest it). Find out your rights and responsibilities and make an informed choice, not one made out of fear of whatever he is threatening.

Thank you for your replies

I don't know what to do I'm just trying to process it, I'm lying here crying

I asked him to sleep in the spare room, ostensibly because he was snoring. He thinks I'm ok with him as I didn't want to make a fuss or the children to hear anything

Also I meant to put this in relationships not aibu 😳

If you are in the UK, and if he did take you to court for the kids. The older kids will be able to have a say over which parent they'd want to be with. You would also be surprised at how unmaterialistic kids can be when it comes to things like this.

I do appreciate how hard all of this must be for you to even think about right now. Women's aid might be a good place for you to get some advice and to speak to someone in real life about it all. They will be good to speak with even if you do decide to stay.

I definitely agree with pp about how him not fighting to see his other child shows you how he would probably really be.

He's really not sounding great OP. He's given veiled threats about taking the kids off you if you ever split. He is emotionally abusive and after the fist being raised I would be concerned he may escalate to physical abuse too. No decent man I know would ever, EVER do that to a woman (or anyone) even as a "joke," especially if they knew there was a history of DV. You don't know he would run rings around you - that's what solicitors are for, to protect your interests. He didn't actually manage to do that to his first ex from the sound of things? If you are married you may be entitled to more than you think. Don't go to marriage counselling with him, it's NOT recommended at all in abusive relationships - the abuser can use it to further manipulative their partner, and abuse just cannot be fixed in this way.
Please contact Womans Aid & speak to a solicitor in private to find out where you really stand. You and the kids are worth much more OP. You are worth so much more to your kids than just material things/an expensive home. You are their mum, that is precious and nothing can replace you

I know they would want to stay in this house. It's a few minutes walk from their schools and their friends live nearby. Some of them are on our actual street
Middle DC 12 has anxiety and ocd (she is now under camhs) and also absolutely hates change so she would never want to move house

I can't bear to imagine not living with them full time. They are honestly my world. I've built my life around giving them a lovely life and creating a home for them at the expense of creating any sort of proper career for myself. I earn good money doing what I do but it varies from week to week and as I say it is a new business so not even done a full years accounts yet. Plus my salon is at my home so that's another stumbling block. I really envy women who manage to have a proper job with a regular income AND bring up their children, I can't manage to do this 😞

I'm going to contact women's aid tomorrow

I can't believe I'm typing this because I loved/ love him so much

I 100% understand your fears. There will be a way for you to make this work. Womens aid can help you come up with a plan. Try to get some sleep. You will feel sick when you wake up tomorrow and remember what happened but please try to focus on the fact that it’s HIM who crossed a massive line here.

You can do it. You are doing it. You are running your own business. I dont even have a proper job, nevermind run a business!

Baby steps though, OP. You don't need to rush into anything. Try and get some rest tonight and then tomorrow give women's aid a call. Then see where you go from there. One step at a time.

I asked him to sleep in the spare room, ostensibly because he was snoring. He thinks I'm ok with him as I didn't want to make a fuss or the children to hear anything

In your shoes, I'd certainly be letting hime know that you don't want to sleep in the same room as him due to his behaviour. in fact, I think I'd be asking him to move out for a while to give you some space to think about it.
He needs to know how serious you are about this, and you're currently considering whether this is a deal breaker for you.
Maybe you should consider whether marriage counselling for you both together would be useful?

I've not really got any proper friends either

If I left and also only had the kids part time I'd be so alone

Sorry haven't replied to individual messages but I'm reading them all and I appreciate it so much

I don’t think marriage counselling is a good idea. Both from previous experience and from what I’ve read on here. He is likely to use counselling to try and minimise what he did and get the counsellor on his side to put you back in your place. You’d like to hope they would be wise to this behaviour, but when I tried to have counselling with my ex I was accused of “escalating ridiculously” by calling the police to get angry DP removed from my home after he kicked a bin across my kitchen, leaving me cowering behind a table in fear telling him to get out, while he stood there basically saying “make me”. You’d like to think a counsellor would hear that and immediately say that’s unacceptable but he didn’t, he tried to say we were both equally at fault at this point. It’s dangerous going to see someone as a couple. By all means get individuals counselling to help you with your boundaries and confidence to build a life after this. But don’t waste time money or energy trying to fix this with him.

@RevFrancisSeaton

I've not really got any proper friends either

If I left and also only had the kids part time I'd be so alone

So you use that time to build a network of friends. To learn new skills, meet new people, enjoy your life. It can be lonely no doubt. But it’s also an opportunity. The first night my DCs stayed with their dad I cried my eyes out! But you soon start to look forward to a bit of me time.

Personally I think that with knowledge of his threatening behaviour, he'd be asked to leave and let you live in the family home.

Don't let on to him that you are worried about money.

I'd distance myself from him over the next few weeks, and talk to a solicitor just for info.

What you want and need is for him to be contrite and never do this again.

Your kids as they adore him would be better off with the status quo maintained, SO LONG AS he's never been like this before and never is again.

So if possible, repair this.

Possibly insist on counselling.

Sounds like a phrase that is said in a bit of an angry arguement, and could be said as a jokey thing also.. It would depend on if your husband is apt to be a proper threatening person all the time if you have a lot of arguements etc.

Since at this point it doesn't seem you are leaning towards leaving - is he remorseful? Does he realize how threatening he was? Is he open to anger management / counselling? Can you see a path forward if he 'gets' it? It sounds like in some of your comments that this isn't a one off but more of a continuation of how he treats you generally. Do you feel respected by him other than this incident?

Can you speak to a solicitor just to know your options, it is good to feel you are fully informed as sometimes there are options you aren't aware of.

you left your previous abusive marriage and survived - I appreciate it's hard, but you know that you did it before.

If he's previously made "jokes" about keeping the children if you split up, it doesn't sound great, even before the recent raising fist incident.

Talk to womensaid - make a getaway plan, even if you don't act on it right away.

Yes talk to women's aid and tell them everything. Everything abusive he's ever done including this incident. It'll either be eye opening or it won't be. If you ever ended up in court, a document outlining any abuse from before you left is worth it's weight in gold. Speaking from experience. Sorry op x

I think it's quite telling that his reactionwhwn challenged was to be defensive and claim he was joking, rather than to apologise, be mortified and take himself out for a walk to calm down

You know you need to end this. If nothing changes he will feel confident that he can get away with it.