H raised his fist to me. What now ?

[RevFrancisSeaton]

We had a minor disagreement earlier, I shouldn't have but I raised my voice (he was talking over me so I felt I had no choice as he wasn't listening to me)

He then raised his fist to me and said "I'll punch you on the nose in a minute" what disturbs me most is I saw a look of anger cross his face and hate / contempt in his eyes

I told him not to ever threaten me with physical violence and then he back tracked and made out he was joking

My ex husband used to bully and threaten me and push me around, H knows this. I've always said it is a dealbreaker

I don't know what to do. I only work part time, we have 3 dc 7, 12 and 15. (The 15 yo is from my first, abusive marriage) I couldn't leave or afford the mortgage on my own . The kids adore him. We have a lovely life but he earns all the money, I've been poor in the past and couldn't go back to it. Yet I feel disgusted by what he did and I feel like I hate him right now

Sorry for the brain dump but I just wanted to get the whole situation down so I don't end up drip feeding

Barely slept last night I feel like a zombie I just thought and thought

I don't know if I'm overreacting. The relationship is genuinely good and he's respectful and loving to me most of the time. although sometimes I don't always feel listened to

He is a really charismatic powerful kind of person. everyone gets on with him and he's always done really well at work etc (the opposite of me!) He is very good looking as well and he would have no problems getting someone else if we do split. Not so much me I'm early 40s nothing to offer and sadly my best looking days are probably behind me.

I am not sure he takes it seriously enough how much the abuse in my first marriage affected me. I spent 6 years walking on eggshells doubting myself and being controlled I wasn't allowed friends or anything and this man stole much of my 20s. He tried to push me down the stairs when I was pregnant and basicaly was such a horrible cunt

It was easy to leave my ex though I was only 26 and we had nothing, we were only renting, he had no interest in trying to have shared access to our baby so I simply kicked him out of the house changed the tenancy and claimed benefits till I could get sorted with work etc. I actually applied for and was given a a council house - this simply doesn't happen now. I wish I hadn't given it up sometimes

And again thanks so much I wish I had this sort of support irl

Today once I've got the children to school I am going to call women's aid and also see if I can get a free consultation with a solicitor

Bless you. This sentence stood out for me "I am not sure he takes it seriously enough how much the abuse in my first marriage affected me."

Thing is, regardless of your first marriage, he shouldn't raise his fist in temper. He shouldn't need to realise the impact of your first marriage in order to know what he did was wrong and he should never do it.

Has he apologised? Or does he think it's your fault for shouting?

OP I hope you are doing OK this morning Just take a deep breath, take it one day at a time. You will be probably be feeling shocked and vulnerable. But you left an abusive relationship before and have started your own business, so you are clearly a strong and capable woman, and a great mum.

Please just find out your rights/entitlement before jumping to assume you would lose everything. In a divorce your years off work to raise the kids (thus allowing him to work) would be taken into account, as likely would your business being run from home. You might not lose the house - I know several women (including my own mum who never worked) who were awarded the house (plus mortgage contributions from ex) in a divorce.

I'm so sorry you are in this situation, sending you a big hug

OP I just read your update (cross posted) and you seem to see him as this all powerful/successful/good looking "perfect" (in the eyes of the world) man, while you have a painfully low view of yourself and your worth. Please have a think about why this is, would counselling (alone) help you? You have just a much right to happiness and self worth as anyone else. You sound like a kind, caring lovely mum, he sounds like a controlling man who threatens you with your worst fear of losing your kids, and raises his fist to the mother of his children. I know who I would rather be around...

He won't run rings round you if you get a solicitor.

I could’ve typed your post, OP - my ex was very similar, and his outward abuse began with a raised fist during a disagreement (it had been emotionally abusive in subtle ways for long before that). He also used to tel me that I would never manage on my own, that he would kick me out, take the kids, etc. He isolated me from friends and family, took everything from me financially and left me very vulnerable in all ways - I believed every word he told me about not being good enough. It kept me there for many more years than it should have done. The breaking point came when my eldest DC reported that his dad had shoved him into a wall in temper and hurt his back - I left to stay with my parents within a few days and I’ve never looked back. He’s never fought me for the children, he barely sees them now. He doesn’t support them financially, but I’m managing without him - I swallowed the fears he’d instilled in me about applying for benefits, I work part time around the kids - and we manage. It’s tough at times, it can be a little lonely - but I’m so much more free now, with no one to answer to. The kids are happier even though we don’t have a lavish lifestyle, so don’t despair. It can be done - believe in yourself and be brave. You deserve a better life than living in fear. Good luck 💐

This is NOT a joke. An angry man raising his fist to his wife and saying I am going to hit you is never a joke. Stay safe OP

Hello OP, we can see you'd rather this one was in relationships. We're going to move it over for you now.

@CarolineMumsnet

Hello OP, we can see you'd rather this one was in relationships. We're going to move it over for you now.

Thank you

Update:

I am waiting for a call back from a solicitor because I feel that regardless of what I decide now, I need to know my rights and my options if at any point I end my marriage

I don't feel unsafe so I've decided to not contact women's aid.

H is working at the office today so isn't here. I avoided him as much as I could this morning. He's text asking if I'm ok and I don't know how to reply

Why don't you write in a text how frightened you were and how it brought back horrible memories. He's not there to react he can think about it before he comes home.

There is a lot of help. You should not stay out of fear or for lack of money. UC will help with an allowance for you and your children and the rent once you sell the house. They will also help with childcare costs if any. On a 50k salary, your H will pay child maintenance. With 3 DC it should be around 700 PCM or more. The courts only care about the well being of the children. If you are the main carer now, you will be most probably the main carer and he will be given visitation every other weekend. He will pay child maintenance. You will receive UC a portion of which will be deducted according to your salary.

I would reply to his text saying that him raising his fist and threatening to punch you in the face has obviously scared you and you’d like some time to reassess your relationship. Ask him to find somewhere else to stay for a while as you think things through. If nothing else you will have in writing what he has done and his reply will tell you everything about how he feels.

I think you've done the right thing contacting a solicitor. It will be a lot easier for you moving forward knowing what is what. Whatever you decide to you.

As for his text. I would say what pp said. Let him know that the argument took you back to a place of fear.

@JugglingJanuary

Are you ok now? It must have taken you back to a scary time. 💐

Are you sure he wasn't jokingthough? It was something that was commonly said as a joke to diffuse tension where I grew up. No one seriously angry would have said 'I'll punch you in the nose in a minute'

The 'anger' could have just been frustration at the situation.

Though, even if it was a joke, given your history he shouldn't have done it.

I'm no apologist, but I think you need to give it some thought.

You're no thinker, but I think you need to give OP an apology.

So which parent would be awarded custody?

The one who doesn't raise her fist to family members in rage.

Please contact Women's Aid.
There is more help & support available than you are aware.
I know you are reeling in shock, & it's despicable that your H was prepared to do this to you - especially given your history with ex.

@RoyKentsChestHair

I don’t think marriage counselling is a good idea. Both from previous experience and from what I’ve read on here. He is likely to use counselling to try and minimise what he did and get the counsellor on his side to put you back in your place. You’d like to hope they would be wise to this behaviour, but when I tried to have counselling with my ex I was accused of “escalating ridiculously” by calling the police to get angry DP removed from my home after he kicked a bin across my kitchen, leaving me cowering behind a table in fear telling him to get out, while he stood there basically saying “make me”. You’d like to think a counsellor would hear that and immediately say that’s unacceptable but he didn’t, he tried to say we were both equally at fault at this point. It’s dangerous going to see someone as a couple. By all means get individuals counselling to help you with your boundaries and confidence to build a life after this. But don’t waste time money or energy trying to fix this with him.

SECONDED.

I'm always appalled & gobsmacked when PP proffer marriage counselling as a miracle cure. This fucker threatened his wife with violence FFS.

When one of the partners is abusive, professional therapists WILL REFUSE TO SEE YOU TOGETHER. Couples counselling, within an abusive relationship, is an absolute no-no.

@RoyKentsChestHair I'm sorry this happened to you, & that you were unlucky enough to get another drubbing at the hands of a shit counsellor.

I am waiting for a call back from a solicitor because I feel that regardless of what I decide now, I need to know my rights and my options if at any point I end my marriage
Very wise.
You need to know your options, & keep your cards close to your chest - he must know nothing about you talking to a lawyer.

I don't feel unsafe so I've decided to not contact women's aid.
My dear Rev, WA are not just for victims of violence.
They are for all women who are being treated unfairly, who are threatened with losing their DC if they leave, who are in a financially unequal partnership, & who are being emotionally or otherwise abused.
That's you - & YOU deserve help & support as much as the next woman.

You said about this thread that you wished you had access to this kind of support in real life.
You do - it's WA.
Talk to them. They are a mine of information & experience.

@RoyKentsChestHair

I would reply to his text saying that him raising his fist and threatening to punch you in the face has obviously scared you and you’d like some time to reassess your relationship. Ask him to find somewhere else to stay for a while as you think things through. If nothing else you will have in writing what he has done and his reply will tell you everything about how he feels.

Also this.

You need to stay on your guard & quietly, stealthily pro-active Rev.

Once my DH and I were having a discussion. He suddenly lost his temper. Threw a plate at the wall - it made a dent. It was frightening.
Later I told him if he ever did that again I would take the children and leave. He has never done it again.
I think you need to look at the overall picture. Was his behavior out of character? Is your relationship usually good.
Tell him it was frightening and reminded you of unpleasant times in the past. Try and move forward together.
Maybe some therapy for you? To help you in disagreements and boundaries.

Counsellors (certainly Relate) wouldn't see my friend and her DH together where there was DV.

For me, this would be a serious dealbreaker. If I wasn't ready to head straight into divorce, I would be asking for separation at least while I could process properly. He needs to know that this is a hard no and you won't stand for it.

Put what he did in writing in the text. When you raised your fist and threatened to punch me and I saw the anger in your eyes....

You can say we both know it wasn't a joke.

Tell him how you feel. Don't tell him yet what you are going to do or not do or what he needs to do or not do. Let him first respond to what he did and how it made you feel. That will also give you some cues.

It is quite a common scenario for people to go from one abusive marriage into another abusive marriage.

Your boundaries, skewed already by previous abuse, are being further got at by your H now; a man who went on the defensive and claimed he was joking (and no he was not). At the very least now he needs to go to his parents house and stay with them. You need time and space away from him.

I would urge you to reconsider your decision to not contact WA at this time.

What do you want to teach your children about relationships and what are they learning here?.

So text him earlier with help from some of the things some of you have said. I find it very hard to articulate things so some of your comments really spoke for me so I hope no one minds me using them

I text almost two hours ago he's read it and no reply. I know he'll be busy at work but too busy for a quick acknowledgment? 🧐

*I am not ok. I still feel really upset that you raised your fist at me yesterday. You need to understand how badly it affected me being regularly physically threatened and bullied both emotionally and physically in my previous marriage.
regardless of that, you shouldn't raise your fist to the mum of your kids. You shouldn't need to realise the impact of my first marriage in order to know what u did was wrong.

And I don’t think it was even a joke becuase the look of anger i saw in your eyes was real. I’m not saying you would have hit me as I don’t think you would. But I think you lost your temper and then tried to back track. I accept that I shouldn’t have shouted, that is unacceptable. I know that you hide resentments and anger all the time but it will still come out somehow.

Your reaction when I challenged you was to be defensive and claim you was joking, rather than to apologise and be mortified
What I want and need is for you to understand how this has made me feel. And actually be sorry and never do it again. Not minimise it as a joke. I was scared and I am upset in case the kids heard anything . We both know only too well how upsetting it is when parents argue*

I forgot to mention as well his dad was an abusive cheating prick who regularly gave Hs mum a beating in front of h and his brother when they were kids