Saying no to sex but doing it anyway

[Amongstchaos]

Hi All,

Im feeling so lost atm when it comes to my marriage but there's one thing in particular I would just like some advise with.
This has always been quite common in our marriage but it never really bothered me before, I kinda just accepted that's the way things were but then the last couple times it has happened I have felt really low and cried to myself after.

Anyway,

Of course there are times in a relationship one person will want sex and the other won't ... a lot of the time its my husband who wants it and I don't ... I just struggle sometimes to be in the mood when I feel like I am ignored constantly .. he's a gamer and spends a lot of time on ps, so Im dealing with the house and kids(we have 3) working cooking etc and he literally works and plays ps. He doesn't spend much time with the kids or any of us. literally gets up, goes work, comes home, plays ps. I don't really want to get too much into it.
In terms of our relationship there isn't really one .. I always know when he is in the mood though as that's the one time he will make somewhat of an effort and then I know that is what he is expecting later.
He will be on his ps until say 11.30 at night, barely paid me attention all night, then come up to bed and just expect it just like that because he is in the mood. I will say no because im tired or I have work in the am or im just not in the mood and it always goes one of to ways ... he will sulk and get annoyed and tell me I don't love him or he will keep going on and on and on until I give in. Most the time I give in because its just easier. sometimes I do end up enjoying it but most the time its just me thinking, right if i do it now that will just keep him at bay a few days or so.

However, the last couple times... the other night he came up and I was asleep, he was in the mood and basically woke me up trying to put it in, I obviously said no but he just kept going saying he wanted to, he was in the mood etc etc, I could tell he wasnt going to stop so I just kinda let it happen .. don't get me wrong he wasn't forceful or anything and maybe If i had been really stern he would have listened but I just end up feeling bad so never do.
afterwards he went sleep.
Then this am was kinda similar. He was in the mood and just kept grabbing and me and trying to put it in. I said no, our daughter was awake in her room and I just wasn't in the mood but he just kept trying to put it in and grabbing and kissing. I said no again and asked him to listen, he stopped and said so you don't want it or something like that, I said no and then a minute later he was trying again and once again I just give and let him. He is then trying to kiss me etc during and make it all loving between us like he hasn't just ignored me.

We have spoken about it before and he just says well if he doesn't go on he never gets it .. I have tried explaining that I just need more .. not just grabbed at and told .. oh Im getting some of this tonight ... I want to feel cared for and loved, I want cuddles without exceptions, kisses without expectation, just some attention, some help round the house, someone to talk too .. i don't bloody know to be honest just more ... I am actually a very sexual person, I like sex but I don't know.

How can I make this better, I've tried just accepting things and how this is who he is and trying to snap myself in the mood in the hopes after a while it will makes us better and our relationship better but all that has happened is I feel so low in mood and am always angry .

To be honest, Im probably not explaining this very well, my head is such a mess and I am conscious of how much I am writing.

*and signs that continually affirm you're still wanting it. He doesn't have those.

This is so shocking. I don't know where to start.

First of all, this man - this man who is meant to love you - thinks that when he wants sex he is entitled to have it, even if you don't want it / don't enjoy it? If he doesn't get it he punishes you with sulking. He guilt trips, coerces, goes on at you until you cave.

You say that he doesn't force it on you but the above is a way of forcing it on you. Plus you also said that you knew he wasn't going to stop - ie he was going to force it on you.

Someone who loved you would never do this. No decent man would ever want to have sex with a woman who didn't want to have it. That is called rape. Does your enjoyment matter a jot to him? I'm disgusted at his sense of entitlement to your body. He thinks it's there as a repository for his enjoyment. Not yours. His. Disgusting.

And your defense of him, saying he works so he's entitled to force sex on you? Do you see how messed up that is??? Because he works for a living (like most other people) he's allowed to have sex when he wants, to forice himself on you?

In any case, you said he doesn't do much at all. He goes to work and he plays on his computer. He basically has the life of a teenage boy. Then when he wants sex he thinks you'll drop everything and do what he wants. Even if he's ignored you all day / left you to do all the housework and childcare and cooking. He really has no respect for you at all.

I can't believe his arrogance, that he has such a lazy, selfish life (and yes, going to work then playing on a computer all the time is a fairly lazy life), lets you run around after him and DC, then when he deigns to come to bed he thinks you should be there waiting and keen. The arrogance! The lack of understanding of how relationships work! Why on earth would he think he's fanciable? He sounds awful.

Please don't stay with him. Noone should ever be coerced in to sex. Noone should have to deal with someone punishing them for not wanting sex. Noone should have to live with someone who thinks of them as being there for their pleasure. Noone should be married to someone who thinks so little of them.

What you are describing is rape, OP. You are being raped by your husband. I’m very sorry.

Leave this man. Please.

Get out.

He is raping you. You have said no, and he continues. Most rape victims don’t actually fight back.

This is such a horrible thing to read OP, I'm not surprised you have low moods.

Please listen to what everyone is saying, and make a plan about what to do. Life doesn't need to be like this.

Oh OP I'm so sorry.

Any sex you don't want, any at all, is non-consensual. It doesn't matter if you fight or resist, or just lie there and let him get on with it. If you don't want it, it is sexual assault/sexual abuse/rape.

This must be very hard to hear. How are you feeling?

He isn't a bad man.

Yes he is. Any man who has sex with an unwilling partner is a bad man. A decent man would stop straight away.

Are you in married quarters? Is this the problem, that you in effect have nothing?

This isn't normal. This isn't healthy. This isn't what you deserve or what women have to put up with.
He isn't a good man, he's a rapist. Just because he uses words and emotional manipulation to wear you down into into allowing him to penetrate your body doesn't mean it's not abusive.
Good men don't do this.
The reason you are crying after it happens is because that is a natural reaction to being sexually assaulted. Please leave.

You don't want to hurt him or the kids......but what about you? Are you content to continue being used like a blow-up doll?

He’s disgusting. You need to leave him. He genuinely is a horrible person. The fact that he works doesn’t entitle him to rape you.

Like many others I found this horrible to read. You are being coerced into sex, you're not consenting to it. There are repercussions if you don't go along with it.

There is specialist support out there for army wives, because of the particular challenges of getting out when your whole life is subsumed in that way. Dr Shonagh Dillon's charity, Aurora New Dawn, might be able to help you develop an exit strategy. There was an article about it in last Sunday's Times here www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-armys-shameful-secret-domestic-abusers-are-still-in-uniform-rz2djpc5f

[quote Alekto]Like many others I found this horrible to read. You are being coerced into sex, you're not consenting to it. There are repercussions if you don't go along with it.

There is specialist support out there for army wives, because of the particular challenges of getting out when your whole life is subsumed in that way. Dr Shonagh Dillon's charity, Aurora New Dawn, might be able to help you develop an exit strategy. There was an article about it in last Sunday's Times here www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-armys-shameful-secret-domestic-abusers-are-still-in-uniform-rz2djpc5f[/quote]
At the end of my first paragraph I meant to say, it is unquestionably rape.

Archive link to the article incase the link doesn't work for everyone: archive.fo/6iMgA

Does he actually show you any level of affection without expecting sex?
And sorry, but he doesn't sound like a good man to me.

Oh OP.. ‘putting it in’ when you are saying no is rape / attempted rape. If you reported this to the police they would likely come and arrest him. (There is a similar thread at the mo, the OP finally reported him, and the police did come and make an arrest.)

If you feel he really doesn’t know you don’t want it, then explain to him v clearly that he does not touch you - at all, ever - until you say it’s oK. Anything else is assault and you will no longer put up with it.

He sounds like an awful man all round.

It will take a while for you to figure all this out, but I would start to make plans to leave. It can be done.

Coercion is rape.
Your consent is not freely given.
You saying no doesn't stop him.
That is rape.
The fact you arent screaming and fighting him off does not mean he isn't raping you.

www.nhs.uk/live-well/sexual-health/help-after-rape-and-sexual-assault/

Rape crisis: rapecrisis.org.uk/get-help/

What you're describing, like everyone else has been saying, is rape and sexual assault. He's raping you OP. Please see the services above who can give advice and help.

What is sexual assault?
A sexual assault is any sexual act that a person did not consent to, or is forced into against their will. It is a form of sexual violence and includes rape (an assault involving penetration of the vagina, anus or mouth), or other sexual offences, such as groping, forced kissing, child sexual abuse, or the torture of a person in a sexual manner.

Sexual violence or assault can happen to anyone of any age.

Consent
Sexual assault is an act that is carried out without a person's active consent. This means they did not agree to it.

Consent means saying "yes" to what happened.

Being intoxicated, not being asked, saying nothing, or saying yes to something else, is not consent. Being in a relationship or married to someone is not consent.

OP, this is the tea consent video (m.youtube.com/watch?v=oQbei5JGiT8) - there’s one scenario missing. If you ask someone if they want tea and they say no, don’t keep badgering them to have tea until they feel like they have to give in and drink tea even though they don’t actually want to.

He is raping you, and on the days he is not raping you he is ignoring you. OP, this is not a good life for you!

You say you don't want to hurt him or the kids:
a.) He's hurting you (emotionally and physically) and he doesn't care
b.) It will hurt the kids a lot more to grow up and witness the lack of respect he has for you, and how he disregards any physical boundaries you have.

Would you tell a daughter or son to basically put up and shut up if their partner was doing this to them?

Please contact one of these:
Women's Aid.
Rape Crisis
Refuge

Police if you feel able.

Like the other posters have said, he's coercing you. He emotionally blackmails you into letting him have sex with you. You say no and he carries on coercing you. He makes you give in, even though you don't want to and you told him so.

You said he does a lot for you, but also you said he goes to work and plays on ps and nothing else.

For the sake of you and your children you need to step Away from this man. He is abusing you.

Is it any wonder you feel so low? You say he puts up with tour moods, but is it any wonder you have moods when you are being used for housekeeping and cleaning and sex.

For what? A roof over your head? You need to get him out, or get out. Do you have family nearby?

My ex husband did this. It's Rape.

There's no other way to describe it. It won't change, and if my experience is anything to go by, it will get worse. It's a blatant message that he doesn't care what you want, only regards his entitlement to sex on demand. I spent years justifying it to myself and then years in therapy trying to deal with how messed up it left me to have spent years effectively being raped. I'm so sorry you're dealing with this.

Please speak to a domestic violence advisor so they can help you work through this.

He has created a situation where persisting and trying to change your mind has become the norm, when really any decent man can be expected to take the first no for an answer. Ask most normal men if they would want to have sex with someone who didn't and they would say "no".
He's showing a disgusting entitlement to your body. Pretending to enjoy it or actually enjoying it, might be hard to tell the difference with, but if you are currently just lying there, and 'letting it happen', it should be obvious and clear to him.
I'd ask him outside of the bedroom , if he believes there's such a thing as rape within marriage? His answer may be revealing.
Apart from that, you don't sound like you respect or like him - undersndably so, who would? So why has your love for him not been lost? I hope for your sake you get to a point of not caring about his feelings, and soon, because he certainly doesn't care about yours. He is a man who only cares about his own needs, he doesn't even care about his DC's, he leaves that to you.
You can get and deserve so much better than him., For your own MH, I hope you can summon the strength to leave this situation. Perhaps your own counselling could help you to move forward without him - I'm certainly not suggesting marriage counseling here, just support for you so that you can gather some strength. This situation is so sad, he's a bully, and a rapist who has sapped the fight out of you.

Thank you everyone for your responses, it means a lot.
Honestly though they have been really hard hitting, Ive spent a lot of the day reading and crying to myself on and off. I guess I just didn't expect them or maybe I did deep down but it doesn't make it any easier. Urgh I don't know. I have always known our marriage/relationship isn't the healthiest but Ive just always pretended and held onto the hope it will get better because sometimes it does. I will tell him how I feel and he acts like he listens, makes some changes and its good for a day or so .. but then it goes right back. Normally because after a day fo him acting like the best dad and husband ever he expects something in return and when he doesn't get it gets shitty. He will say how he's done all this and got nothing in return so what's the point.

To those who asked if he ever shows affection .. I guess so but not in a way I want. He grabs at me and make sexual comments etc. He can't just have a kiss or just a hug. It will be a kiss and a grab of my boobs or between my legs ... Or how he's gonna get a piece of that tonight .. and again if I don't show him affection back he will say I don't love him or don't find him attractive ... I just find it so hard to show him affection atm because I just constantly feel angry. I am trying though! I keeping trying to make myself in the hopes he will then make more effort but I just can't, its just getting harder and harder and I physically can't.
Other than that he doesn't show much attention at all. Actually there was one time he actually went out of his way (or so I thought) to be nice, it was when he made me this nice bath, with candles and bubbles and then gave me this loving massage that was actually very nice I fell asleep. The next day he was so mad at me and I wasn't sure why .. turns out he was annoyed he didn't get anything in return, that I just went to sleep on him and he got nothing.

He doesn't help much with parenting unless its shouting at the kids, 9 times out of 10 I always have to then shout at him to stop because he can be quite nasty and swear a lot etc and doesn't know when to stop ... then he will start yelling at me that its all my fault because I'm too soft and how he is sick of us all and all our shit.
He can have quite a nasty tongue at times. He apologies after for things he says and says he was just angry but I struggle to just forget these things ... he says I should because he said sorry and I am the reason we don't get better because I don't let things go.

I know I should say no properly and not give in, but honestly its easier because he will just try again and again and I will have to deal with again .. I know this because that was how it was before, he'd ask id say no, he'd keep trying, eventually he would listen and get grumpy and sulky and angry and then the next night or morning it is the same thing again, this way I know I am getting a break I guess.

I don't really know what I mean when I say he does a lot for me, I guess because he has supported me for years, I know I work but I don't know, we are in a military life, I don't really have much. Plus he deals with my low moods, he has said it himself, no-one else would put up with me.

As for liking him or respecting him ... I don't! I want too though, that's what I am trying to work on, I just want a happy family life. The harder im trying though the harder it is .. I use to be able to ignore the bad and focus on the good and just pretend, I just can't seem to do that lately.
I feel like its all my fault that I have made him this person somehow.

I am sorry if my replies are all over the place.