Sibling ignoring me - can anyone shed some light?

[HonuOnMyKnees]

Hi, recently I asked my dad to borrow some money as a bridging loan to help with a property purchase. He offered 50k on a short term loan. I felt it was important to let my brother know about it so that we were upfront and it wasn’t seen to be done behind his back.

Brother gave his thoughts (seemed to think it wasn’t a good idea, asked a lot of valid questions, appeared to want to protect dad’s interests - all of which I feel was fair and reasonable). I replied to the email clarifying and correcting some of the questions and misunderstandings. Dad not only decided to offer the loan, he has said to me and to both of us in writing that he’s happy to have the money doing something useful instead of sitting gathering no interest.

I drew up a loan agreement which includes a repayment date this year and a lump sum interest payment. I sent a copy of the completed agreement to my brother.

Neither dad nor I have heard from my brother since. He has ignored texts and phone calls, and not replied to any comments I’ve made on his lighthearted (meme type) posts on social media. This is all very unlike him. Dad hasn’t had any emails either and has he’s tried to video call him a few times and has been cut off or no response.

For context, it is only the three of us, mum is no longer alive and no other siblings. We all live in different countries but are generally very close and have good relationships.

This all happened about a month ago. Dad told me yesterday he’s now angry with my brother. I’m baffled. I emailed my brother yesterday asking if he was ok and said dad mentioned he hadn’t heard from him for ages so I was checking in. Didn’t mention anything else because I don’t want to speculate or be seen to be jumping to conclusions.

I can’t think of any other reason why he would be ignoring us but I don’t understand why. What might I be missing here? Why might he be behaving this way? It seems really out of character. I could contact his wife but I don’t want to put her in the middle of it.

Any thoughts? I’m trying to put myself in his shoes and see why he’d be reacting this way but I’m lost. And I don’t know what to do to try to move it forward. Perhaps there’s nothing, perhaps I need to try again with a blunter message to say it seems you’re pissed off, do you mind telling me why and by the way why are you ignoring dad?

Argh, any wisdom would be really valued please!d

@couldhavenotcouldof22

Honestly? If I was you're brother I'd be really angry. You're not being treated equally at all.

Why? And how? How is he to be treated equally? It’s a loan? Did he get £50k (he doesn’t need) and have to pay it back with 1% interest just because OP is?

It’s not a gift..

*does he have to get

I'd text his wife saying you and father are worried. Haven't heard from brother in over a month. Very worried. Is he ok ?

See what happens. Don't message him asking if he is pissed off. Act like things are normal. Because, well, they are. After all seems like you are borrowing money off your father in a responsible way so don't see why brother should be pissed off. If you were reckless with money I could understand your brother's concerns but since you've said a repayment plan has been written up, what's there to worry about.

I also can’t see why your brother would “object” to a £50k loan. It’s not even his bloody money. It is just a loan btw, and not a gift like he got whilst studying (which you didn’t get!). Some people are not reading the thread properly or at all.

No idea why your DB has gone AWOL.

Perhaps you and your DB are not close and talk in a relaxed and trusting way with each other, or maybe it’s just him that can’t? Living in different countries maybe doesn’t help. Perhaps he thinks you are less than him and don’t deserve help from your dad.

Anyway I’d leave him to it tbh. He sounds as if he is being childish about it but who knows what’s won in his head except trying to stop you getting a perfectly reasonable loan from your father. Maybe he will tell you one day. Maybe just forget about the issue for now and give it some time.

I encouraged my dad to email my brother again and he did and specifically asked my brother to get in touch. My brother has now replied to both of us to say he doesn’t think I should have asked for a loan and he doesn’t think it was a good idea for dad to lend it to me.

I am now feeling pretty angry. I’ve never seen this side of him before. Something he doesn’t approve or or agree with and his response is to blank us completely for 5 weeks. Despite it being, as he said, none of his business and between the two of us.

I am not sure how our relationship will recover from this. Dad is happy to forget the last few weeks ever happened but I feel really differently about my brother now unfortunately. I’m pretty gutted about the whole thing.

I guess that if your brother is almost 50 and you, perhaps, are a similar age, maybe he feels that you are both at an age where you should be financially independent of a parent in their 70s/80s? Perhaps he feels that it would be difficult for your father to say no to the request, as he does have the amount needed in savings and that, maybe you shouldn’t have asked him, but got a bank loan instead?
I’m in no way judging your actions and I appreciate what you say about it being a mutually beneficial arrangement, it’s just that given the ages it’s perhaps more common for children of your age not to be asking parents well past pension age for financial support.

@EmilyDickinson you know, I think you could be right with that. That’s helpful, thank you.

I’m not sure I’ll ever know but I can easily imagine him taking that view. (I’m still annoyed at his reaction though).

Has he asked for a loan before & was refused?

Your mistake was involving your brother at all. What your father does with his money whilst he's alive is none of your brother's concern, or yours. This is a loan, not a gift, and even if it were a gift, again, it's none of your brother's business.

No that's crazy thinking, recipe for family fall out!

I think that as parents grow older the relationship often shifts from the parent looking after and protecting the child to the child looking after and protecting the parent. Maybe it’s tricky if that shift in the relationship happens for different siblings at different stages. It sounds to me like you see your relationship with your father as one of equals making a mutually beneficial arrangement. Your father may see, or want to see your relationship the same way as he then feels less like an “old” person. Your father may even see your relationship as one where he is still in the helper/protector role (even though for the sake of your pride he pretends it’s one of equals). He may enjoy feeling he is still needed by you and that you still rely on him. Your brother may have started to see your father as someone to be protected and cared for. Someone who is vulnerable. Someone who he would not worry with his finances. Your father might even sense this and resent the way your brother views him.

@EmilyDickinson interesting and insightful, thank you. Dad has literally described the loan as ‘a business arrangement’ and is happy that his money is doing something useful, so I think what you say about equal/helper relationship seems plausible.

Not sure if brother sees dad as vulnerable, he absolutely might do but at the same time he’s much less tolerant of my dad’s little foibles and doesn’t show much of a caring side sometimes (and that’s before he decided to ignore him for weeks). I get a whiff of judgement from my brother regarding financial stuff so I can well imagine your last point being true, about him feeling at my age and stage I shouldn’t be troubling a parent for a loan.

Not sure how to proceed now, it doesn’t sit well with me to leave my brother’s last message without a reply but equally it doesn’t seem likely he’s going to have an adult discussion.

@HonuOnMyKnees,

I think these comments are unreasonable:
"I am now feeling pretty angry. I’ve never seen this side of him before. Something he doesn’t approve or or agree with and his response is to blank us completely for 5 weeks. Despite it being, as he said, none of his business and between the two of us.

I am not sure how our relationship will recover from this. Dad is happy to forget the last few weeks ever happened but I feel really differently about my brother now unfortunately. I’m pretty gutted about the whole thing."

To be frank, I think this (above) attitude is way overblown. You may not realize it, but you're trying to out-drama him and that will not help solve the problem.

Based on your other comments, he does not seem to think your father is making a safe bet. The commenters who have asked whether there might be favouritism also have a possible point. You've dismissed them but you don't seem to be sure that that's actually reasonable.

It's an incredibly tough position to be in to see a sibling get to live with far less financial stress. It's even tougher to see a relative pressure a parent into handing over money that may not be affordable. There are so many people here who are insisting that it's your dad's money and that's true. But if he loses it, your brother will bear a burden of worry for your father's welfare and for yours.

You asked your brother's opinion but did not want to hear the answer. So you put him in a position of being powerless to see his father take a major risk and you get a huge amount of money. You must have some idea of whether your father has denied him help in the past.

I don't mean to sound harsh but I do mean to shake you out of justifying your behaviour here and thinking a little harder. Money is a big deal whether we like it or not and it never pays to bulldoze over family members who don't agree with the way a parent is helping a sibling.

@Antst I’m angry that my brother has chosen to ignore both me and my dad for 5 weeks. I’m mostly angry at him ignoring my dad.

I am not in any way trying to out-drama him. I’m gutted this has happened and would like to have a discussion with my brother but he’s ignoring me.

We didn’t ask for his opinion.

There is no favoritism (dad has also stated this).

It is not a major risk, there is a legal document covering the loan. He is not going to lost the money.

I don’t know which sibling you are referring to but i don’t think either of us has particular financial stress and my brother has had much easier financial circumstances in some respects.

I didn’t pressure my dad at all in any way shape or form and dad has also stated this to me.

I’m not trying to justify my behaviour. I started this thread to try to understand my brother’s perspective.

I haven’t tried to bulldoze anyone. I asked dad if he could lend us some money, he offered an amount, we kept my brother informed. My brother has ignored me ever since.

@Antst no my dad has never denied him help in the past. I specifically asked dad this.

We didn’t ask for his opinion.

Do you think he's entitled to ons?

@HonuOnMyKnees, I understand that you feel strongly that your brother has no reason to have a problem. But what I'm seeingand I'm not judging; we've all had sibling dramais that you're very defensive and don't seem to be about solving the problem.

I think that if you can understand that your responses here are defensive, then that may help you understand why your brother may be avoiding you. Is it possible that you have come on too strong when asking him for a discussion? Can you honestly say that you want to hear what he has to say (and are not trying to convince him he shouldn't have a problem)?

I know I'll have some details wrong here but if you want to solve this, don't focus on getting defensive about that. Really try to be open to hearing what your brother has to say.

In my family and many others, people insist there has been no favouritism or that they've got a sure thing and don't understand why people aren't supporting it financially. Things are rarely so simple though. Your brother clearly has a major problem and you didn't mention that he is crazy. So I think you owe it to him to examine your behaviour and make sure you are actually open to solving it. He could have a valid problem.

Maybe take a week or two to avoid contacting him or discussing this with your father. Let things calm down. Especially do not make negative comments about him to your father. That would (and has) infuriate me in the same situation. Good luck and I mean that sincerely.

@HonuOnMyKnees, I'd ask your brother if your dad has denied him help though. My own parents have sworn up and down that they treated my brother and me equally. They didn't. There are bank and other records that back that up.

Be open to the fact that there may have been unfairness and that that would not have been your fault, but that your brother would have good reason to be upset about it. Do not go into this insisting that he doesn't have a problem. I say that based on having been in the position of your brother. Good luck.

What length of time is the loan.

Sorry if I've missed that if already stated.

@Antst thanks, I don’t think I can do anything now other than let him come to me. I haven’t specially asked him to have a discussion. Since he emailed his questions I’ve heard nothing from him at all until today when he emailed me and dad. Until today I’ve tried to call him 3 times (in a 5 week period), sent 3 texts (2 were jokey things we normally send to each other, one to ask if he was working) and one email asking if he was ok. So 7 attempts to contact him in 5 weeks, none of which referred to the loan.

He won’t engage with me so I don’t know how I can solve it. I really don’t think I’m being defensive; and I haven’t come on strongly about a conversation - I’ve literally not mentioned it!

I’m not making negative comments about him to my dad and I will definitely be sure not to. In fact yesterday when dad started talking to me about changing his will I specifically told dad I did not endorse him cutting my brother out.

I’m at a loss what to do, I’d love to hear from my brother and more than anything I want to solve it but I can’t do that when he won’t talk to me. So I suspect for now I am best to leave it and not reply to his message or try to make contact.

@Antst I did specifically ask dad that yesterday and he said he my brother had never asked for help not been denied anything.

@Onthedunes repayment date is 31 Dec this year. In reality will be repaid earlier (it’s a bridging loan that will be repaid on sale of a property).

@Antst sorry I read that wrong. Maybe if my brother ever talks to me I can ask him.

Sorry you’ve been in the brother position. I do appreciate your insights.

@HonuOnMyKnees, yes I agree that unfortunately, all you can do now is wait. It is awful to be blanked. But try to remind yourself that he just doesn't know how to deal with whatever the problem is. Don't drive yourself nuts by being angry.

I would behave as normal--send birthday gifts, etc. You'll have a much better chance of working this out eventually if you do that. If this is still going on in a few months, I think it would be worth approaching him and asking to talk to a mediator together to work things out. Whatever happens, focus any discussion with him on being sad about the tension, not on the loan.

I do hope he comes around but in this kind of situation, pressing him may cause him to dig in.

Thanks @Antst. I’ll let it go, focus on doing everything we can to pay it off quickly and keep myself in a good emotional place about it.

Funnily enough the next family birthday is mine in a few weeks so it’ll be interesting to see what happens!

Your brother is being a dick. It's a bridging loan that will be repaid in a few months. No biggie! It's not a risky loan for say a new business or something.

But it isn't any of your brother's business what your dad does with his money and if I was your dad I'd be super pissed off.

My parents have loaned money to all of us and also funded some stuff. It has never occurred to me to question or judge nor am I particularly interested. I know my parents are fair and they're there if I need them.

I do understand the advantages of using your father's capital to further your profit.

I think this is where the problem lies, if your were in a desperate possition maybe your brother would be more understanding but as it stand he feels you are using you dad's capital to profit from, where he has not thought of doing that.

Thereby there is an unfairness as you are profiting from dads money, thereby the monies given is not equal.

You have put your dad's money to work for him.