Sibling ignoring me - can anyone shed some light?

[HonuOnMyKnees]

Hi, recently I asked my dad to borrow some money as a bridging loan to help with a property purchase. He offered 50k on a short term loan. I felt it was important to let my brother know about it so that we were upfront and it wasn’t seen to be done behind his back.

Brother gave his thoughts (seemed to think it wasn’t a good idea, asked a lot of valid questions, appeared to want to protect dad’s interests - all of which I feel was fair and reasonable). I replied to the email clarifying and correcting some of the questions and misunderstandings. Dad not only decided to offer the loan, he has said to me and to both of us in writing that he’s happy to have the money doing something useful instead of sitting gathering no interest.

I drew up a loan agreement which includes a repayment date this year and a lump sum interest payment. I sent a copy of the completed agreement to my brother.

Neither dad nor I have heard from my brother since. He has ignored texts and phone calls, and not replied to any comments I’ve made on his lighthearted (meme type) posts on social media. This is all very unlike him. Dad hasn’t had any emails either and has he’s tried to video call him a few times and has been cut off or no response.

For context, it is only the three of us, mum is no longer alive and no other siblings. We all live in different countries but are generally very close and have good relationships.

This all happened about a month ago. Dad told me yesterday he’s now angry with my brother. I’m baffled. I emailed my brother yesterday asking if he was ok and said dad mentioned he hadn’t heard from him for ages so I was checking in. Didn’t mention anything else because I don’t want to speculate or be seen to be jumping to conclusions.

I can’t think of any other reason why he would be ignoring us but I don’t understand why. What might I be missing here? Why might he be behaving this way? It seems really out of character. I could contact his wife but I don’t want to put her in the middle of it.

Any thoughts? I’m trying to put myself in his shoes and see why he’d be reacting this way but I’m lost. And I don’t know what to do to try to move it forward. Perhaps there’s nothing, perhaps I need to try again with a blunter message to say it seems you’re pissed off, do you mind telling me why and by the way why are you ignoring dad?

Argh, any wisdom would be really valued please!d

@HonuOnMyKnees

Thanks *@layladomino*, that’s how Dad and I see it.

@Idontgiveagriffindamn I feel it’s backfired on us for attempting to do the right thing. I felt I should let him know about it so that we were being above board and so it was all open and transparent. As dad said, we weren’t asking him for permission or approval, we were letting him know as a courtesy. Seems like that was a bad move.

Im not sure why you needed to tell your brother that you were getting a loan? Its private, you are paying it back and your dad has the money. It has all sorts of potential to cause a rift. Do the agreement so you can show it to him if required but its your business.

Its your dad's money to do as he pleases with it.
Its short term loan and you are paying him interest on it.
This all seems open and above board and your Dad actually benefits.

This is between you and your Dad and none of your DB's business.
Alarm bells rang for me when you said he disapproved and asked various questions and also when you actually sent him a copy of the loan agreement - it sounds like you thought you needed to prove something to him as he wouldn't trust you otherwise.
What has gone on in your relationship that you and your dad both thought you had to explain and ask for his approval in this level of detail, especially for a short term loan. It was sufficient to draw up a loan agreement so you had proof if needed that you'd been above board, but there was no need to send him this, as others have said its like asking him for permission.
If he's actually ignoring you, is this normal behaviour for him? or maybe its nothing to do with you at all. Make contact with him again and see hes OK but you ought to stop asking for his approval, especially if he's the withholding type. You are not doing anything wrong.
Also, given his behaviour over a simple short term loan, I'd be making sure with your Dad that he has his will and power of attorney etc all crystal clear and documented because it really does sound like he might want to cause trouble down the line. No need to tell DB or you anything other than I've made a will leaving it equally to both of you..

@Idontgiveagriffindamn that’s an interesting insight, thanks. Maybe that’s exactly what it is. I guess it’s all speculation unless he tells us but that has given me food for thought.

Definitely do not try to connect with him via his wife. He's ignoring you, respect his wishes, you will only annoy him further by going to his wife. Seriously, just give him time.

He sounds completely unreasonable.
I’d stop contacting him now and wait for him to come to you.

@Doona the only reason to suspect it’s the money is because we haven’t heard from him since the emails about it. I have emailed asking if he’s ok and saying dad was concerned he hasn’t heard. He is active on social media. If anything I could message his wife to check in but I don’t particularly want to get her involved.

@DuckbilledSplatterPuff dad has always been quite upfront about his will etc and the reason we wanted to let my brother know was to be up front. Clearly that has been a mistake. There is no background to suggest he wouldn’t trust us and we are not and never have been seeking his approval on this or anything else.
We both have copies of dad’s will and dad made us both PoAs a few years ago. Dad told me yesterday he’s considering changing things if this situation continues.

As others say I feel I now need to let him come to me/us and step back. It’s pretty bloody upsetting though, I’m swinging between baffled, angry and upset. Especially about how he’s ignoring dad.

Regarding any money or presents mum was always very strict that we go the same and dad has openly said he follows the same rule

Well, unless your DB has also had a 50k loan, you have not and are not being treated the same, are you?

Really we don't know the situation or you.

This loan, would it be available to him if he needed a similar amount, or is the rest of your father's money tied up in property ?

Although you spoke to your brother, it now places him in an uncomfortable situation, whereby he must trust you to do the right thing, he wont want to be monitoring payments you make to your father's account. Maybe he thinks your dad is also not up to keeping on top of this, age factors or illness.

Unless he's allowed access the your dad's bank account then he would not know, I think it's made your brother lose trust in you and that loss of trust may spill over when he passes away.
That may be groundless but money and family often cause problems and if possible best to be avoided.

Sounds improbable but I have seen so many families fall out after parents die, over money.

He clearly doesn't like the situation, so what will you do, I imagine nothing so this is where the chasm starts.
You have to put his mind at rest.

Seriously I think approaching his wife may only piss him off more if he is annoyed in anyway.

Perhaps he has had words with your Dad about whether he can really afford to lend you the money.

@BadHairDayExpert fair enough but dad says he’s never asked and we have no reason to imagine he wants or needs any money.

@Onthedunes I really don’t know if dad has other money accessible. I didn’t ask dad for a certain amount, I explained our situation and asked if he could lend anything. I had no idea whether he could access any cash and he offered 50k straight away.

I’m pretty gutted to think that in trying to be open and up front we have possibly caused him to lose trust. Sadly I know you’re right about money causing fall outs and unfortunately my brother’s reaction to this (presumably to this) does make me concerned about what will happen when dad dies.

How can I put his mind at rest when he won’t respond to me?

We both have copies of dad’s will and dad made us both PoAs a few years ago. Dad told me yesterday he’s considering changing things if this situation continues

Your brother feels left out.
This statement shows that.

I would never play off my children, stating one would have more control of my assets upon death.

His anxieties seem valid.

And control of money before death.

Your mistake was involving your brother at all. What your father does with his money whilst he's alive is none of your brother's concern, or yours. This is a loan, not a gift, and even if it were a gift, again, it's none of your brother's business. Let him sulk if it suits him.

What was the nature of his questions? As I suspect it boils down to those and the answers you gave to them?
He was suspicious of something to ask them and perhaps is not satisfied by the answers you gave...

@Onthedunes I’m not sure I understand what you’re saying. Dad is hurt and upset and angry and feels he has done nothing wrong and doesn’t deserve to be treated like this. He told me that the longer it goes on the more likely it is he will change his arrangements. I have no idea whether he means changing the PoA and/or executors and/or beneficiaries/distribution. It is also entirely possible that he wouldn’t change anything and it was a statement made from a place of emotion. He is very hurt and upset. I don’t think dad is playing us off against each other. He’s upset that my brother has completely disengaged.

My brother is almost 50, surely he could engage in an adult conversation if he does indeed feel left out?

I think your brother must be going through some sort of turmoil in his life possibly unrelated to your arrangement with your father. But he feels in some way alienated by it.
I absolutely understand why you would inform him of this arrangement as he has joint POA with yourself. Being open and transparent regarding money is my number one perogative too.
I think you can only carry on as normal.. I would discourage your father from making any changes as this might divide the family going forward.
Perhaps letting your father chase the contact, but continue to email, whatsapp or whatever as normal... ignoring non reply...
Just give him time... he might work things out for himself or get in touch...
I cant see that you or your father have done anything wrong... you asked..he offered.. you have drafted an agreement.. everyone knows about it....

@goldfluffyclouds yes that could be it. His questions were about why we needed the bridging loan (it’s to do with timing and sequencing of selling property) and some questions/misunderstandings about the property we are buying. Also some questions about what the repayment timing and what would happen if our other property didn’t sell. So essentially quite objective questions, I think aimed at protecting dad’s interests, which I felt were all reasonable. There were some assumptions and misunderstandings that I clarified and I answered all his points very comprehensively. I haven’t heard since.

Also (having just gone back and read his email) he said up right at the start that he appreciated me emailing and keeping him in the loop.

I was really clear to dad that if he was in any way uncomfortable or preferred to say no for any reason then it was fine and I had no expectation of anything. We have talked at length about it since i first asked. Dad told me he he decided he really wanted to do it - as he describes it, having a warm hand and having money do something useful rather than sit in his bank doing nothing (his words).

His questions were about why we needed the bridging loan (it’s to do with timing and sequencing of selling property) and some questions/misunderstandings about the property we are buying. Also some questions about what the repayment timing and what would happen if our other property didn’t sell.

None of which is any of his business.

I'm sure between both you and your dad you could reassure your brother.

It may be just that he feels out of the loop, I do think it is equal and fair to inform siblings within a family where money is concerned, if you wish to have cordial relations and I'm sure you do.

Maybe he's too polite to voice his concerns or maybe he feels you have a stronger relationship with your father.

I wasn't accusing, just trying to see it from his point of view.

Also age doesn't always bring wisdom and understanding.

[quote HonuOnMyKnees]@goldfluffyclouds yes that could be it. His questions were about why we needed the bridging loan (it’s to do with timing and sequencing of selling property) and some questions/misunderstandings about the property we are buying. Also some questions about what the repayment timing and what would happen if our other property didn’t sell. So essentially quite objective questions, I think aimed at protecting dad’s interests, which I felt were all reasonable. There were some assumptions and misunderstandings that I clarified and I answered all his points very comprehensively. I haven’t heard since.

Also (having just gone back and read his email) he said up right at the start that he appreciated me emailing and keeping him in the loop.

I was really clear to dad that if he was in any way uncomfortable or preferred to say no for any reason then it was fine and I had no expectation of anything. We have talked at length about it since i first asked. Dad told me he he decided he really wanted to do it - as he describes it, having a warm hand and having money do something useful rather than sit in his bank doing nothing (his words).[/quote]
Based on the your brother sounds like a bit of a sick tbh. It’s not his place to “protect your dads interest” unless your dad is infirm of mind.
It’s up To your dad how he wants to helps his daughter out - and if that means doing a kind, we’ll-planned and thought through loan arrangement that’s great. It’s also not his place to wuestion why you really need a loan like that.

You’ve been more than open and honest with him
About the whole thing, I’d just drop it now because you’re only making yourself feel worse trying to chase him (who is acting like child) when you and your dad have done NOTHING wrong.

If he wants to grow up and re-engage that’s up to him, but stop letting him make you feel guilty.

[quote HonuOnMyKnees]@goldfluffyclouds yes that could be it. His questions were about why we needed the bridging loan (it’s to do with timing and sequencing of selling property) and some questions/misunderstandings about the property we are buying. Also some questions about what the repayment timing and what would happen if our other property didn’t sell. So essentially quite objective questions, I think aimed at protecting dad’s interests, which I felt were all reasonable. There were some assumptions and misunderstandings that I clarified and I answered all his points very comprehensively. I haven’t heard since.

Also (having just gone back and read his email) he said up right at the start that he appreciated me emailing and keeping him in the loop.

I was really clear to dad that if he was in any way uncomfortable or preferred to say no for any reason then it was fine and I had no expectation of anything. We have talked at length about it since i first asked. Dad told me he he decided he really wanted to do it - as he describes it, having a warm hand and having money do something useful rather than sit in his bank doing nothing (his words).[/quote]
I think he doesn't like what you're doing - overstretching/risky/whatever, but by including him you've drawn him in. You may have answered his questions but he still doesn't like what you're doing.
Unfortunately the chances are high that if you hadn't let him know and he found out - he would still have been unhappy about it - so there would always be a problem.
The speed with which you're dad says he's going to change his will because he's gone silent suggests that there are family dynamics here that go beyond this financial transaction - the brother for withdrawing and the dad for threatening a financial 'punishment'.
I think like in many families there are plenty of things wrong, but they go unsaid in the interests of 'family harmony' but eventually something will tip someone over an edge. I think you've found your brothers 'edge'...

[quote HonuOnMyKnees]@Onthedunes I’m not sure I understand what you’re saying. Dad is hurt and upset and angry and feels he has done nothing wrong and doesn’t deserve to be treated like this. He told me that the longer it goes on the more likely it is he will change his arrangements. I have no idea whether he means changing the PoA and/or executors and/or beneficiaries/distribution. It is also entirely possible that he wouldn’t change anything and it was a statement made from a place of emotion. He is very hurt and upset. I don’t think dad is playing us off against each other. He’s upset that my brother has completely disengaged.

My brother is almost 50, surely he could engage in an adult conversation if he does indeed feel left out?[/quote]
I think you should leave him be. He'll engage or he wont. Your dad's reaction to threaten to "change the arrangements" was pretty telling though. Sounded a bit controlling and maybe your brother at 50 doesn't need the aggro, money or relationship.

Honestly? If I was you're brother I'd be really angry. You're not being treated equally at all.

Your brother sounds like an entitled dick tbh. He doesn't need an interest attracting pay-backable and yet is pissed off you do?! I wouldn't be chasing after him for contact...