Dating confusion!

[RoseSays]

I'm OLD - just very slowly as I've been married before and prefer being single!

I'd like some advice / insight if that's ok?

The last couple of guys I've been on a couple of dates with both called me 'independent'.

Now that's actually exactly how I would describe myself, and proudly so, but I got the impression they thought it was a negative?

I'm dating white collar, metropolitan type guys, mid - 40s, divorced with children.

I had been married for a long time, but no children. I do not spend my time solo-kayaking across the Atlantic, I work, eat, sleep, repeat like everyone else I know.

I've taken a step back and allowed them to pay for most of the dates (they earn more than me) but I offer and I'm more than happy to go Dutch/me pay.
I drive myself to the dates because often they are half-way plus I don't want to drink too much, or give them my address (I've only been on a couple of dates with each of them).

I don't think they are potentially abusive guys, I do hope I know by now the rest flags.

The first guy finished with me (he wasn't feeling it - I was secretly really really gutted) but it's only now I'm dating the next guy and he's said the same thing which is why I'm wondering as especially we've only spend a brief amount of time together.

I dress fashionably rather than sexily, but I'm very 'feminine' looking and 'pretty' so I do try and balance that out by not showing flesh or figure hugging clothes. I don't know why I feel this is important to state - but there it is. Both guys fancied me, so I don't think they mean that independent = unfeminine.

I wonder if they mean emotionally unavailable?

I think it’s an unspoken rule that men want to feel like women ‘need’ them in some primate way.
In my experience, ‘independent’ is code for ‘confident and intimidating to men’

However, you fucking go girl! The right man will come along that will love your ‘independence’ and find it the best quality about you. I don’t think it’s a you problem at all, just a wrong man situation!

Most dates won't lead to much more than that until you find a strong mutual connection. Independent, meaning you don't rely on a man and you're confident, perhaps they know they can't easily use/control you.

I’ve always been very independant and self reliant, but that does not preclude me from accepting drinks or meals or holiday from a man and would never “go Dutch”.
I don’t have hang ups about that if he values my company I’m happy to accept his generosity - as long as he behaves like a gentleman.

@dopple

Most dates won't lead to much more than that until you find a strong mutual connection. Independent, meaning you don't rely on a man and you're confident, perhaps they know they can't easily use/control you.

I am confident - but I'm quite goofy and very able to laugh at myself, I'm not arrogant and although I don't 'need' a man, I'd love to meet someone special, I'm a real softie once you get to know me.

I actually am beginning to realise I over-share too (not just on here!) so maybe that's part of it?

To be honest I'm only really questioning myself because I really liked the first guy and I have no idea why he didn't like me. I usually am the one that breaks things off.

@RoseSays, a man's opinion here and one who has done a lot of OLD and of independent women.
I like intelligent, independent women, not fluffy clingy women. Independent most definitely does not mean unfeminine.
I'm currently seeing a woman who is independent, feminine, quirky going on eccentric and definitely goofy.
You sound very nice, and I think your approach is just fine. OLD takes a lot of time and can be a numbers name. I wouldn't try and be someone you aren't, what's the point of doing that under false colours to get into a relationship with someone only to later revert to the real you?
Maybe you come over as a bit cool. If you do like someone, there's a lot to be said for showing it -which does not mean quick sex if that's not your thing -it just means showing it eg saying you think you're getting on well and suggesting the next date.

I wouldn't try and analyse it too much. I've found with OLD people can be flaky and might not be ready for a relationship, don't know what they want or want something casual. Maybe they didn't want the same things as you and made an excuse to not seeing you again.

I am also independent and I've had a variety of excuses when guys have broken things off with me.

I can understand how disappointed you are with the first guy. At least you know where you stand with him and he hasn't lead you on or ghosted you.

Sometimes it's good to take a little time out from dating after a disappointment or if you feel a bit rejected and then have another go.

I'm in a similar situation to you, and what I've learned Is when they say you are 'independent' it's less about you and more their own insecurity about not knowing what they could add to your life. I think it helps of you are honest in the first one or two dates that's you actually do want to meet someone and you would value someone in your life. I know that sounds totally obvious but I think it's easy to portray a view of 'been fine so far so I don't need you' . Men want to feel needed in the same way that women want to feel loved and appreciated (I'll bet flames for that 😂) . Let them know what is missing and why you are hoping they will bring to your life - as hard as that is!!!

@mealdeal20

I'm in a similar situation to you, and what I've learned Is when they say you are 'independent' it's less about you and more their own insecurity about not knowing what they could add to your life. I think it helps of you are honest in the first one or two dates that's you actually do want to meet someone and you would value someone in your life. I know that sounds totally obvious but I think it's easy to portray a view of 'been fine so far so I don't need you' . Men want to feel needed in the same way that women want to feel loved and appreciated (I'll bet flames for that 😂) . Let them know what is missing and why you are hoping they will bring to your life - as hard as that is!!!

Thanks - I think I do do that, but maybe I'm not convinced myself .
I don't think I come off as aloof/cool, maybe I do.
I've never come remotely close to sleeping with a date on a first or second date (maybe I come across as a "Lady") so I don't come across as someone who just wants something casual.

I do generally lunge in their direction by date 2 for a snog as sexual chemistry is actually really important for me and I won't carry on dating someone whose kiss doesn't do anything for me. I find it hard to let my guard down to have sex really early on with someone, my body just doesn't respond unless I feel 'safe' even though I love sex and that's one of the main reasons I'm dating.

God, I'm confusing!

You are being too harsh on yourself I think. You have said that you prefer being single yet are struggling to understand why your first few dates haven't progressed further

Just enjoy it and you have nothing to lose if you prefer being single. I must of been on 50 first dates 🤣 I am picky. And independent.

Just be you x

You are over thinking your role in this op

We’ve all had first dates that didn’t continue with someone we liked
It generally comes down to chemistry and a shed load of other factors for them we don’t know and will never know !

Dating is brutal , but you sound eminently nice and baggage free ! So get back on the horse and don’t over analyse yourself

To be honest I'm only really questioning myself because I really liked the first guy and I have no idea why he didn't like me. I usually am the one that breaks things off

I had a bruising encounter and it did break my heart a bit

My response is to go back old and be brutally honest about who I am and where I am

Don’t like me ? Don’t match with me

I’m getting way better matches now and better chat 💬

Being independent is a good thing!

Any man who has issues with a woman being able to stand on her own 2 feet and have a life is usually the type who are insecure, controlling and old fashioned.

If a man makes you feel like you need to change who you are to please them they are not the right guy for you!

If they genuinely meant the "independent" comment, then ime its insecurity.

"You don't need me, so why would you possibly want me"

It's heartbreaking how many men (and women) believe this.

I agree, OP - what is 'independent' supposed to mean? You are single, working and supporting yourself. Keeping your spirits up and pushing yourself out there on to OLD snd on dates. You don't actually have any choice - you are 'independent' by definition.

It sounds a stupid thing to say. They mean what - you're not desperately fawning and saying your life is just no good without a partner? You're showing flashes of your own, strong, clear-thinking personality??

I would only want a man who could analyse the above and would say I was 'independent' with a twinkle in his eye.

Hold out for someone bright, balanced and ready to have fun in life with you. I don't mean just 'fun' but actually pleasure in all his interactions with you. And not someone who's intimidated by your strength - they should love it.

They do say 'independent' with a twinkle in their eye, they seem impressed, but I still get the impression it's a negative.

I am independent in my character, but I'm not sure how they would see that side of me so quickly? I did walk away from my exh of 15 years without a backward glance - maybe that's the thing that they are commenting on (divorcees usually ask how my marriage ended and I can't be bothered to lie, there was no drama, I just wanted out and he was putting more pressure on me to be more 'wifey')

Other than that, yes of course I'm bloody independent in my life! I'm educated, capable & single, I put my own bins out. I didn't think that was that extraordinary....

From my experience, many mid-40s guys are pretty broken after divorce, and either emotionally unavailable or needy. Yet to meet someone comfortable in their own skin and who mirrors me. Women are a lot more independent, I think. The more highly educated and attractive you are, the more difficult it is to find someone who will appreciate you as a lot of men are deeply insecure about a strong woman. Enjoy it as a low reward process and you may hit gold at some point.

@Milomonster - I agree about men in their 40s. This was my experience.

@Milomonster

From my experience, many mid-40s guys are pretty broken after divorce, and either emotionally unavailable or needy. Yet to meet someone comfortable in their own skin and who mirrors me. Women are a lot more independent, I think. The more highly educated and attractive you are, the more difficult it is to find someone who will appreciate you as a lot of men are deeply insecure about a strong woman. Enjoy it as a low reward process and you may hit gold at some point.

This. And most in my experience aren't looking for anything serious either, as most will have been battered financially...

Old can be brutal.
Thing is there are mountains of shit men on old so the ones that are better than average looking, can write a decent profile, don't sent dick picks or try to get into your knickers after the 1st text and who are generally easy to converse with are going to get a lot of interest.

Which means they might just have met someone they had more chemistry with.

You can only be yourself and hope you meet someone who likes you as much as you like them. This might take a little time!

To be honest I'm only really questioning myself because I really liked the first guy and I have no idea why he didn't like me. I usually am the one that breaks things off

He found someone he likes more than you, sorry, there are lots of women on OLD, men can be picky as well.

I think what they mean is they're doubtful you'll taken over parenting their children.
Most will be looking for someone who will step into the role of childcare provider as well as girlfriend

And most in my experience aren't looking for anything serious either, as most will have been battered financially

Yep, lots of divorced men don’t really trust women so won’t commit to anything emotional

@MostlyHappyMummy

I think what they mean is they're doubtful you'll taken over parenting their children. Most will be looking for someone who will step into the role of childcare provider as well as girlfriend

This!

On the flip side, just because a man says they're looking for an independent woman, doesn't mean they're an angel.

What some selfish men mean by this 'I'm looking for someone who won't place any emotional demands on me'. If a woman is independent, they think she won't come to him for comfort or support when she needs it. He thinks that can be conveniently outsourced to everyone else she has in her life.

mid-40s guys are pretty broken after divorce, and either emotionally unavailable or needy

I’m targeting this age , not seen needy (au contraries) but have seen some emotional and happiness issues
But then I have that too so sometimes 🤷‍♀️