Another marriage one...

[Overandout1]

I know this board is filled with threads like this.

I know ultimately if he wanted to marry me, he would and the rest is just excuses. However here I am and I'm wondering how to approach the situation.

Been with my partner 5 years this summer. Lived together 3 years, have a nearly 3 year old DC and we each have an older child each from previous marriage. I'm 34 he is 51.

I know everyone will say marry before a child but obviously it's too late for that now. Our son was unplanned and at the time I fell pregnant we had only been together 14 months. Marriage hadn't been discussed at this point, however we were in love and decided to continue the pregnancy and move in together (we had discussed moving in).

Anyway here we are and almost been together 5 years.

We have both been divorced. My partner has many issues from his divorce. He is from a wealthy background and lost all his inheritance in his divorce (around 400k). His ex wife made things very difficult when divorcing, she stalked him, stopped him seeing his child for a year then later (at this point he was seeing child).claimed thousands extra in maintanance by saying he didn't see his child. She tried to get him struck off and threatened his elderly father and has MH issues. This has been told to me also by his friends and family and I've seen court reports. I want to make it clear I am NOT making assumptions about his ex, I'm explaining what I have heard from his side and how his divorce impacted him. I was not in the relationship and I have no opinioms of his ex wife, it usually takes 2 to end a marriage and I'm not saying he did no wrong, I wasn't there.
Anyway basically bad divorce.

When we have discussed marriage he has always said he has no issue with marrying me but can't go through another divorce and he would need to be 100% that we won't split (obviously this is not possible). We have had a hard time adjusting initially as we moved in together 2 weeks before I gave birth. My partner had been mostly single for 10 years post divorce and got used to being alone and he can be selfish. However it has caused issues.

We love one another, well I have no reason to think he doesn't love me. When things are good we are great but we can have issues at times.

I've made it clear in the past that I want to get married. He's said several times that he will one day propose, refers to me as his wife, made remarks about type of wedding etc. However, the last time I tried to discuss marriage he basically got angry with me and it ended up with him saying 'dont you realise how bad my divorce was'. He has also said in the past that when you have a child together he believes you don't do anything to break that family unit and that as I in the past had walked away from a marriage with a child, I was capable of doing it again.

I want to get married. Several reasons

• I love him
• want to feel he's committed to me
• I want the same surname as one of my children
• I want to officially be part of his family
• I don't want to be a partner forever
• I envisaged being married to the father of my child
• and the boring one...for practical and legal reasons. If he left or anything happened to him, I'd struggle whereas he has a lot of money behind him.

The issue is this. It's suddenly hit me that we have been together nearly 5 years and I've started to think that if he's not asked by now, he never will and for me, it's important. I'm starting to feel resentful and upset about it.

The issue- I don't know how to broach the conversation because when I last tried he got annoyed and basically said I'm giving him an ultimatum. I'm not even sure how to put it across without making it sound like an ultimatum. I basically said if he didn't love me enough to get married then I wasn't sure it was the right relationship for me. He was upset/angry I'd consider leaving when we have a child. Especially seen as we've both been divorced, so evidently marriage doesn't mean much! And has always said loving me has nothing to do with it. The conversation usually ends with him saying that he isn't against marrying me and one day, how8how long do I wait?

Does he have a point? Or do I accept he doesn't love me enough?

Also to add, I'm not worried that he will cheat or leave me. I know you can never know for sure but this isn't my concern. It's more the worry I'm not enough for him to want to marry and I don't know how to have this conversation without him getting defensive and angry or upset.

He's prioritising keeping his cash in a potential future divorce, over you and your feelings.

In a nutshell.

How many conversations about marriage can you have? He doesn’t want to, for whatever reason, so now you have to decide if his refusal to marry is a deal breaker.

Get a pre up, that may help him decide

OP I do do feel for you. My STBXH was divorced before we married and to this day I don’t know why he married me. He would have been better off it marrying again. We are now getting divorced (our marriage lasted considerably longer than his first marriage but has never been completely happy. He is now very very resentful about the fact that we married and thinks he is a fool to have done it and we should have just lived together as he is going to get another big financial hit. He will definitely not marry again even though his gf is pressuring him as she wants to now he loves her/is committed etc. I think he does love her but simply does not want the hit again. I think a lot of men are in that mindset now.

@ReadySteadyTwins you may be right and there may be a financial aspect. Financial security isn't the main reason 8nwant to marry, not at all. However I do feel that us having a child means we should have financial legalities in place. Obviously suggesting this to my partner makes me sound like I'm interested in money. I do think there may be a financial element and the sorry of emotionally going through a divorce. When I got divorced I walked away with nothing as I felt guilt, I'm certainly not a money grabber.

@Maze76 yes I do understand. I think it's because he has said that he would marry me as long as we were at a stage of not having so many ups and downs. I suppose I just want him to categorically say he won't marry me. When I've said in the past that I don't know if I'd stay in the relationship knowing we will never get married, he has said that he would marry me so that didn't happen. However I don't want someone to marry me if they don't want to. I'm trying to decipher I'd it is genuine fear of divorce, loss of finance or if he doesn't love me enough. I'd it's the latter, I don't want to be with him at all, marriage or not. I think I'm struggling to see how he can love me but not marry me. Although I worry about his lack of commitment on that sense, Im.very much a part of his family and we are like a married couple except for tha actual marriage. I certainly don't think he sees me as a short term option.

@Nsky
If he had an honest conversation with me and said money is the issue then I would.

@JangolinaPitt sorry to hear you are currently going through a divorce, I hope you are doing ok? How did he feel about marrying you after having been divorced? Did he propose? Or was he uncertain? I do agree with what you are saying and hi saw the impact divorce had on my father (lost everything and was suicidal). Part of me sees a man who has money behind him and I think if I was in that situation, I probably wouldn't get married. Especially not after being divorced (his ex cheated) and loosing so much money. I know he feels very bitter because he sees the inheritance money as his dad's (he's very close to his dad) and feels it was stolen from him. It was also a long and bitter divorce. At the same time, I feel resentful I'm being tarred with the same brush as his ex and upset that their relationship is impacting on mine.

Sorry about typos. Typing fast before bed and my phone has a mind of its own!

I think there are emotional and practical issues here. I’d put emotional reasons aside for now and address the practical.

You have a child together and that child needs protection in the case something happens to him. This doesn’t have to be done via marriage - your bf can make sure you and the child are included in his will. Or, he can set up a trust for the child.
At a minimum - I’d talk to him about that.
Any person who comes from money will be ok with having estate planning conversations.

The emotional reasons are harder to deal with. Unless he is ready to marry you - you can’t push him.
You can put his mind at ease by suggesting prenup. That may make it easier for him to take the chance one more time

I agree that framing the discussion around provision for your child is the best option now. Life insurance etc. Then once that is in place just let the subject of marriage lie unless it is a show/dropper got you snd you decide to leave. But in that case he would probably view it as you don’t love him enough to live without him without marriage.

I was your DP, well without any money. I found my divorce so traumatising that I swore never to marry again. I wanted to get divorced and it was not too acrimonious but the epic sense of failure and loss take impacted on me, to say nothing of the impact on my child.
I met a good man and I told him I'd never get married again. He accepted this but over time I felt my feelings change. After being together seven years I proposed to him and we did get married. Still happy together more than ten years married.
I don't think your DP s resistance is necessarily about safeguarding his money.

You are waiting around waiting for something that might well not happen. He is stringing you along because he is happy with the situation.
You either put up with it and not rock the boat, or you make a plan to live independently and ‘date’.
You should be in control of your own life.
And a someone who is in a relationship with a 10 year difference I’d say that the gap gets wider as you age.

Thank you for all the replies and different perspectives. Intially I felt that if he didn't want to marry me, then I should leave and find someone who wants to. Then I came to think that I'm reality, I already have 2 children with 2 dad's. I don't want more children and I don't want to marry a different man who isn't father to my child. Saying that, being with a man who won't marry is really effecting my self esteem and I feel insecure. I'm in a cycle now where we end up arguing because fed up of running around after everyone like a house wife when he won't marry me. I feelike he's mocking me, getting the benefits of a house wife without commitment and I don't think I can continue in a relationship like this.

@MMmomDD he has said to me he will do his Will and ensure myself and our son are taken care of (his suggestion). He's in no rush at all though and if I ask him about it, he says why am I in a rush, do I think he'll die soon.

@SomewhereOnlyIKnow you're right and I'm torn. Realistically if we spilt, I'm not looking to marry someone else who isn't a father to my children. However, if he doesn't love me and I'm not good enough to be his wife, quite frankly he can bugger off. I'm noones 'make do' or second best and quite frankly it's embarrassing.
Also, there are 17 years between us, not 10.

It doesn’t matter what we say, its clear that this man doesn’t want to marry you. He’s also fobbing you off regards basic Will provision etc.

You haven’t made it clear whether you work, have your own income/ savings. Is the house you moved into his? Do you contribute to it?

Bluntly I wouldn’t hold my breath re this guy marrying you. If he wanted to he would. Also, you are really exposed, because wills can be changed at any time and his promise that you’re looked after may come to nothing.

There are two ways I would look at this.

1. Would you be happy if this never resulted in a marriage?
2. are you independently financially secure in the event something happens to him and there is no provision in his will? I mean do you even know whether his will atm provides for your child? Does he have one?

I am the one in a relationship with a 10 year difference and I’ve found the gap widens as we age.
It’s now like living with an old man.

I'd go and read the thread on here at the moment about a mnetters friend who never got round to getting married or doing wills, one of couple had diagnoses and died in space of a week. The bereaved partner is losing everything, including his home, to his dead partner's sibling.
I'd show your "d" p that and ask him if he'd be happy for you and his child to be in that position

Out of interest, if my partner died tomorrow who would his money go to with no Will? His eldest child? Or be divided between the 2 children?
I'd basically be homeless.
We are renting at the moment (long story not related to commitment and we intend to buy), he pays rent and I pay all bills. The rent is substantially more but he earns more.
I work but not many hours, I reduced my hours because it was decided I'd be the one at home more with our son.

I do want things legally sorted and initially said we should both get life insurance so if anything happened we would both have some security. However he can afford to live without this and instead suggested he do the Will.

The problem is that the more I discuss this, the more I come across as wanting marriage just because of money.

How do I even open up this conversation? I'm going crap constantly and I've been in tears already this morning thinking about it and resentment is building. I don't want it to end up in an arguement but fear I'm so upset it'll come out something like "you don't want to marry me or in anyway protect the financial interest of our child, so I don't want to stay with you' however I know this is in no way a productive conversation and he'll straight away feel attacked and think I'm giving an ultimatum.

Reducing your hours was a significant mistake. Think about reversing that decision.

His refusal to discuss his will is irresponsible.

Is it possible that he was enjoying a fling with you, a younger woman, after his divorce and the unplanned pregnancy elongated the relationship that would otherwise have fizzled out? If so it might be time to separate as amicably as possible.

@GreenClock who knows. Maybe. He always said he wanted another child, although that could have been a line. When I became pregnant he said timing wasn't right as ideally we would have lived together first but he said I was an amazing mum and couldn't imagine anyone he'd rather have a child with.
Prior to the pregnancy we got on well, were in love etc. However who knows if a relationship would last without a child. I'm sure many people in relationships stay together longer than they would because of children.
I have considered what you have said though and I guess I won't know.
He's just someone who plods along and is rubbish and actually putting the wheels into place and doing things. I don't think he would want me and his son homeless if he died, although I know he is effectively allowing this.
I know I need a conversation regarding both this and marriage, I just fear it'll end in arguement. This then further supports the notion that we shouldn't be getting married if we are arguing.

I think too many commitments are being fudged here. Divorce is horrible etc etc but aren’t ALL relationship breakdowns horrible unless people adopt certain standards and treat one another with respect? If you separate now, there will be issues about your child (visiting arrangements etc) and about financial provision for the child. He will be obligated to deal with these things, and if you don’t agree, the court will determine these issues. Does he not realize that? He chose to form a relationship with a younger fertile woman…well we all know what happens…the younger woman becomes a mother, and then the older man so ‘scarred’ by the previous divorce cannot consent to marriage. Brutal as it may sound, he should have dated someone his own age, beyond child rearing if that was his mindset. If you separate you will each be able to form relationships which meet your respective needs. You may fall in love again and meet someone where both of you want to marry? Does he not realize that? Resentment kills relationships, so if you want to remain together you need to sit down and sort out your finances, because that’s the grown up thing to do and also because in the absence of marriage, you will be in a very vulnerable position should your (much) older partner pre decease you. MN is full of women seeking advice ‘retrospectively’ about their finances. Things that should have been agreed upon, being left to chance. It’s terribly sad. The only certainties in this life are death, and that human relationships are fraught with issues. It’s best to anticipate the worst case scenario. All rights carry responsibilities, if he wants to remain legally single, but in a ‘committed’ relationship, co parenting a child, you need a financial agreement. If he wants to marry and protect ‘his wealth’ you can take advice about a pre nup. If he wants to live with you, without any of these things, the ball is in your court. I hope it works out and if he says ‘you’re forcing me into marriage’ you will need to balance his resentment of you, with your resentment of him. What is he forcing you into?

I think his estate would go to next of kin, so I guess divided between his two dc.
However if he has an existing will pre dating your dc being born, that would trump. So effectively you and child left with nothing.
Its hard to disassociate the two things... Emotional security and financial security.
Could you try "we need to get our life admin sorted darling" and start conversation that way.
Include yourself in this, so you both need to do wills, decide on guardians for dc in case you both die, decide on retirement ages/plan, pension planning, house buying plan... Most financial advisors say do a 12 month plan, 5 Yr plan, 10yr plan and long tern plan.
I would do this with no mention of marriage, being sensible and planning for your joint future is not unreasonable.
If he baulks at this, then I'd ask him if he sees his future with you? Not because he hasn't married you but because he doesn't want a life plan with you

Easier to separate when just renting. On the one hand he may have seemingly paid a lot to his ex. However, given that you say he still has a lot of money behind him, clearly she in no way cleaned him out and perhaps got what she was entitled to.
If you don't want it to sound like an ultimatum, the you are accepting to settle with where you are at, because only an ultimatum can possibly change it. You may well have to go as far as moving out for him to realise what he has lost. Congratulations Mr. you have caused the breakup of this family unit, despite protestation that he wouldn't, it would be on him, and him alone, so if he tries to lay it at your door, lay it back firmly at his, because clearly he is the one damaging this relationship.

@Overandout1 you have the conversation as a responsible and mature adult who also has to ensure the needs of her child are met. Money is not a dirty word now you have a child together and you should not be shamed into staying silent.

As a PP has stated, mnet is full of threads of women who are trying to sort these convos retrospectively. Or worse still are already up s**t creek. Don’t be those women.

Park marriage for the moment.

This is a life planning convo that is essential to have because you both have such a young child together. You both ‘agreed’ that you lessen your hours (why?) without any financial security for you. You need to ensure you sort that asap along with looking at things like your pensions.

You’re asking us about who will inherit? How do we know? Has he ever made a will? Because if he has that is who will inherit.

Even if it does go to his two DC, what provision is made to support you? My will has my monies going to my DC at 25, I then have a letter of wishes / plan set out which means I will effectively release money to my exh / to the Dc directly for help with uni so he / they are adequately supported. As a parent, these are my responsibilities towards not only my children but the person whom I chose to have them with.

If he cannot have these convos with you? Then I would be very worried and my number one priority would be sorting out my own financial security.

You need to see a family solicitor and put it in their hands, take their advice. That way it won’t seem so ‘grabby’ to you.
Is your name on the rental agreement ? If not you have no right to be there if you split, but on the other hand it’s easy to walk away.
Please tell me your wage and child benefit goes into your own bank account, not a joint ?
Do you have a private pension ? If not, get one now.
And I’d be looking at increasing your working hours.