Another marriage one...

[Overandout1]

I know this board is filled with threads like this.

I know ultimately if he wanted to marry me, he would and the rest is just excuses. However here I am and I'm wondering how to approach the situation.

Been with my partner 5 years this summer. Lived together 3 years, have a nearly 3 year old DC and we each have an older child each from previous marriage. I'm 34 he is 51.

I know everyone will say marry before a child but obviously it's too late for that now. Our son was unplanned and at the time I fell pregnant we had only been together 14 months. Marriage hadn't been discussed at this point, however we were in love and decided to continue the pregnancy and move in together (we had discussed moving in).

Anyway here we are and almost been together 5 years.

We have both been divorced. My partner has many issues from his divorce. He is from a wealthy background and lost all his inheritance in his divorce (around 400k). His ex wife made things very difficult when divorcing, she stalked him, stopped him seeing his child for a year then later (at this point he was seeing child).claimed thousands extra in maintanance by saying he didn't see his child. She tried to get him struck off and threatened his elderly father and has MH issues. This has been told to me also by his friends and family and I've seen court reports. I want to make it clear I am NOT making assumptions about his ex, I'm explaining what I have heard from his side and how his divorce impacted him. I was not in the relationship and I have no opinioms of his ex wife, it usually takes 2 to end a marriage and I'm not saying he did no wrong, I wasn't there.
Anyway basically bad divorce.

When we have discussed marriage he has always said he has no issue with marrying me but can't go through another divorce and he would need to be 100% that we won't split (obviously this is not possible). We have had a hard time adjusting initially as we moved in together 2 weeks before I gave birth. My partner had been mostly single for 10 years post divorce and got used to being alone and he can be selfish. However it has caused issues.

We love one another, well I have no reason to think he doesn't love me. When things are good we are great but we can have issues at times.

I've made it clear in the past that I want to get married. He's said several times that he will one day propose, refers to me as his wife, made remarks about type of wedding etc. However, the last time I tried to discuss marriage he basically got angry with me and it ended up with him saying 'dont you realise how bad my divorce was'. He has also said in the past that when you have a child together he believes you don't do anything to break that family unit and that as I in the past had walked away from a marriage with a child, I was capable of doing it again.

I want to get married. Several reasons

• I love him
• want to feel he's committed to me
• I want the same surname as one of my children
• I want to officially be part of his family
• I don't want to be a partner forever
• I envisaged being married to the father of my child
• and the boring one...for practical and legal reasons. If he left or anything happened to him, I'd struggle whereas he has a lot of money behind him.

The issue is this. It's suddenly hit me that we have been together nearly 5 years and I've started to think that if he's not asked by now, he never will and for me, it's important. I'm starting to feel resentful and upset about it.

The issue- I don't know how to broach the conversation because when I last tried he got annoyed and basically said I'm giving him an ultimatum. I'm not even sure how to put it across without making it sound like an ultimatum. I basically said if he didn't love me enough to get married then I wasn't sure it was the right relationship for me. He was upset/angry I'd consider leaving when we have a child. Especially seen as we've both been divorced, so evidently marriage doesn't mean much! And has always said loving me has nothing to do with it. The conversation usually ends with him saying that he isn't against marrying me and one day, how8how long do I wait?

Does he have a point? Or do I accept he doesn't love me enough?

He earns a lot more hourly than I do, so it was decided I would reduce my hours for childcare. He does pay me the money I'm missing from the day that I dropped.
My pay goes into my account. In our everyday relationship, money isn't an issue.

You are right and the last time I attempted this conversation, he got stressy. I did say that as two adults we should be able to have a mature and grown up conversation about serious life issues without an arguement.

Also, when I initially started the discussion about money I basically said to him that now we have a child we should both take out life insurance for protection. However, he said we didn't need to do that and he would amend his will. He said his brother has his will but has since said he doesn't, so I don't need to worry because there is no will and if anything happened then his dad would make sure we are ok (his dad is 89 and putting your 89 year old dad in charge of your finances is ridiculous).

I'm sat here in tears. I just want to get it all out but I'm feeling so low and stressed that I don't think it'll come out right. I think I'm going to have to talk to him tonight once the kids have gone to bed.

I'm honestly thinking of just being blunt. Something along the lines of, we have been together nearly 5 years and if you've not asked me to marry you by now then you probably won't. So can you please just be honest with me because I deserve to know where I stand.
I will also be mentioning the will again too.
In th roast I have said to him that I don't want to debate marriage. I told him that if he didn't want to get married again then that's completely fine. It's his choice and I would never push or force him into it. I didn't want to debate his decisions but I wanted to know where I stood so I could make an informed decision. This then escalated into a huge arguement with him saying I'm giving him an ultimatum and his ex wife did the same.

I'm starting my divorce shortly and I'm going to lose everything. I'm 43 with three children. I've no desire to ever be in this position again. I bought my first house at 19 and everything I've worked hard for will soon be gone.

I can totally understand why your partner doesn't want to get married again.

My DM died without leaving a will. My SD told me at the funeral that he would ‘see me right’. I never saw a penny.
Please take control.

You can take out life insurance, then you need to make a will and leave it to your child.
Don’t wait for him to agree to do this together, do it yourself and sort your side out.

I agree with everyone urging you to please look at your own financial status and doing what you can to secure it as a basic matter of taking care of yourself as a person then definitely a Will especially since you have dependent children. You are young and have time to build up a pension, perhaps returning to full time work once your DC are older but in the mean time, you are at a financial disadvantage obviously. You definitely should have conversations with your DP about financial planning at least.

To me, it sounds like the reasons you give for wanting to marry are mostly your personal values. You've been divorced and yet you still believe in marriage. However your DP, even if he has no issue with marriage itself, his own particular experiences have given him a different attitude towards it. Does he want to wait until he feels less afraid of another divorce or until you don't feel the need to be married? Neither is fair on you. The issue is how important is marriage to him to you? I think you are much more capable making this decision for yourself and your child than he is. You cannot force him to marry. You both have to want to because that's what you both believe in ... or not. Prenups are not yet legally recognised and in any event, would have be fair eg he couldn't say that you wouldn't be able to touch most of his money on divorce even if you wanted to promise that. Or if you each wanted to agree to walk away with what you each brought into the marriage, that would probably not be seen as fair either since you have a DC together, the length of time you married plus the time you lived together before, the fact your pension would be less than his etc..

I am in a similar situation in that I still very much believe in marriage and want to be married but if I did, my financial status would be severely compromised should I divorce. It makes me so sad and confused about the present and future and I don't know if my views will change.

You know he doesn’t want to marry you, you don’t need another conversation. You need to work out what you want to do.

You have no reason to think he doesn't love you? So you don't actually feel loved?

he basically got angry with me and it ended up with him saying 'dont you realise how bad my divorce was'.
He's using anger and making you out to be inconsiderate/selfish as a means of preventing discussion. Is this how dicussions normally go?

He has also said in the past that when you have a child together he believes you don't do anything to break that family unit and that as I in the past had walked away from a marriage with a child, I was capable of doing it again
And making you out to be morally inferior to him - depicting you as a person who would break up a family, whereas he has higher standards and would never do such a thing? Is that right?

Can you go back to full time?

@SomewhereOnlyIKnow I'm so sorry for your situation, that's awful. I do believe that his father would genuinely look after me, I get on with him really well and he adores his grandson. However, it's not his job to sort his sons finances and my partner needs to get things in order. I could sort myself a will and life insurance but that doesn't help me if my partner dies. He would be fine if I passed away and so would my older son , plus I don't have significant savings or property. On the other hand if my partner died, I'd have nowhere to live.

@AnotherSillawithanS I'm so sorry for what you are going through. I know the devastating impact divorce had on my father. So much so that when I went through a divorce, I left with nothing. I can understand the impact a divorce can have. I think what I'm trying to decipher is if my partner has genuine issues to due past experience or does he not love me enough to want to marry me.

@crumbs12 thank you for your reply. I think I almost feel that I can't discuss these issues and I'll come across as money grabbing. However, I think I need to get this sorted. I'm planing on talking to my partner tonight and seeing if I get anywhere. If not, I need to reassess the relationship.

@CrimbleCrumble1 yes, you're probably right. His hesitance should probably be taken as a no, he doesn't want to marry me and I don't want someone who thinks I'm not enough.

@ravenmum I do think he loves me, yes. There wouldn't be any need for him to be with me otherwise. I also don't feel he's going to leave me. However marriage (and some financial security) is important to me and I'm not sure I can forget about it.
And yes, you're right. Conversations often go this way. He raises his voice and if I get upset, I'm the one who is insecure with emotional issues.

I don’t think he’s being unfair in not marrying you, I wouldn’t get so financially and legally attached to anyone again either.
But he shouldn’t string you along, and he should make provision for his child, and if he loved you he would make provision for you too.

He is being unfair stringing you along, and refusing to discuss it with you. You are meant to be a partnership of two equal adults, with an equal right to an opinion and to have your voice heard. It doesn't read as though that is the case here.

I think you're right - the blunt conversation is needed. You can emphasise that you've always said you wanted marriage. You aren't going to change your mind. He needs to decide now if that is for him or not. And forget about 'being asked'. If 2 people want to get married, you can just plan a wedding. As I've got older I've realised how dafyt it is to wait around waiting for someone else to decide when the right time is to propose marriage. Marriage isn't about the proposal, or the ring, and some people use those as delaying tactics when they just don't want to plan a wedding.

He is entitled to his view. You are entitled to yours. If they don't align then you don't have to stay together. And if he doesn't want to commit to you, he's saying that he isn't sure you're going to stay together.

At the very least he owes you an honest answer, and to explain what his concerns are if he doesn't want to marry. You can then see if you can alleviate those concerns together.

'Just don't want to plan a wedding' - by that I meant 'just don't want to get married', more accurately.

Thanks all.
I absolutely agree that he does not have to marry me, it is completely his choice. However, I've made it clear I want to get married again and he has said that it'll happen one day. I just want honesty, I don't want a conversation every year where I say I want to get married and he says yes one day.
Also, I want protection legally for our child.
He basically has a 1950's housewife doing childcare, all the cleaning, cooking, washing without any need for commitment.

Ok so I'm just putting our child to bed the going to talk to him. I'm really nervous and don't want it to end up in an argument.
Our routine is that I go downstairs and we put on a show before bed.
How do I start the conversation? It seems awkward and forced...
'i want to talk to you about something' immediately induces worry and I don't want a negative start.
' do you think we will get married' literally seems like it's coming out of nowhere...help please.

Maybe don’t go down the marriage route, maybe say that you want to secure yours and your child’s future financially, and see where it goes.
No negativity, an upbeat conversation.
Good luck, and remember what you want 💐

Thank you. It's the initiating I struggle with, I mean do you randomly start talking about it over dinner(toddler always present), leave until toddler in bed and suddenly interrupt our show with 'why won't you marry me' 😂😥

The issue is this. It's suddenly hit me that we have been together nearly 5 years and I've started to think that if he's not asked by now, he never will and for me, it's important. I'm starting to feel resentful and upset about it.

This is what you tell him ^

With that age gap and in your position I would be looking at leaving. If you don't own property together, aren't married, he has no will, he is not prioritising your child and you, and you will be left with nothing when the relationship breaks down. And it will, because he doesn't have enough respect for you to marry you, and give your child the shared security that you both need. He doesn't have to marry you to make a will to ensure provision for your child, but he hasn't even had the decency to do that.

Well that went exactly as I expected. I don't even know why I want to marry him. Honestly I hate myself for being such a pathetic person.

Is this the works 10 hours a week emotionally abusive doctor, by any chance? Very, very similar details. And if it is, why on earth do you want to marry him?!

@velvetpeachb yes 😥 8s it that obvious?
The conversation went exactly how I knew it would, he turned everything around on me and basically said he would marry me but only when I stop being crazy, I've asked for more support and apparently I'm an agry, crazy person and need to be mentaly stable!
This is because I get quiet and upset when he shouts at me and because when I talk to him about anything he makes out that I have mental issues.

Just discussed the will with him (bare in mine he was the one who offered to do it) and he thinks I'm absolutely crazy! Nobody else does things like this, he will do it one day, do I think he's going to die and I'm coming across as wanting his money!!!
I literally can't converse with this man.
Honestly, if he dies tomorrow I'd have nowhere to live, I have a house full of stuff and could barely afford a removal man to even move! I'd be completely fucked. However forgetting me, it's the children that would suffer.
He honestly is the most stupid person I know in so many ways and he's a complete bully. I on ehyjdred percent knew as soon as I mentioned marriage, he would start saying I'm mental.
He's basically given me a verbal list that he will marry me when I'm calm, less crazy, don't sulk and don't bring up anything that's happened previously. The only reason we have these issues is because he is an unsupportive, Xbox/phone addicted waste of space. Honestly the way he has treated me in the past has been awful.

And yes I know. Why do I want to marry him? Because I'm evidently a completely fucked up person that ended up with someone who treats her like shit but have spent years just trying to be loved. By anyone.

And I hate myself. I hate who I've become. Someone waiting round for a complete waste of space to say she is worthy of him. Then sitting here listening to him tell me I'm mental. He's made me like this. I knew as soon as I discussed marriage he would start raising his voice and arguing with me. He can then look at me and say 'see, how can we get married when we argue and look, now you're crying. See you're mentally unstable. I'm not marrying someone mentally unstbale'

I think the problem is not why he won't marry you but unpacking why you want him to so much!

You've had so many threads about his -frankly appalling- behaviour and received so much great advice on how to disentangle yourself from him, but you don't seem to want to.

His only plus point seems to be that he affords you a certain kind of lifestyle as he is wealthy, but at what cost to you and your children?! It's the ultimate sunk costs fallacy to double down and force more commitment when the man is very obviously not a particularly moral or appealing partner.

If you're truly honest with yourself, is money the driving force here? That somehow his horrible, abusive behaviour would be easier to live with if you were tied to him financially and you were "getting something" out of it?

I don't mean that unkindly, but please, look back through your past threads about him, he is awful. No amount of nice outfits or spa treatments or whatever other positives from being in a relationship with a high-earning doctor will make up for the damage to your self-esteem.

I'm shocked you're still with him to be honest, the last thread you seemed like you'd had enough. To read that you are literally begging him to marry you is actually quite jarring, if that makes sense.

Please don't accept this as your life, for yourself and your children.

Please don't hate yourself, just leave him.

You DO have the agency to change your life. It may be hard, it may not be what you envisaged, you may not be a doctor's wife but you won't have to feel like this, right now. He is making you so miserable!

You can change your life for the better. But he is not going to change for you or with you. You have that power. Your sons do not need this example of a male "role model" in their lives.