Is it me? Am I toxic ?

[Moff2k]

Been with DP 2 years. We are both divorced and don't live together. We see each other a lot though, the 50% of time he doesn't have his primary school age dc infact. Mine are young adults.
I always stay at his because my dc don't see their dad.
DP is only my second relationship and I'm 48.
I was with exdh from 17 until my early 40s then got with DP.

I feel unsettled and don't know why. I've googled it and it appears I suffer from retroactive jealousy.
I hate hearing about him and his exw. They coparent 500 so are in touch a lot. Daily infact. Its only about the dc. I've seen message's and heard phone calls, its always child related. But it bothers me SO much. I'm so jealous.
I hate that she ended it and he asked for marriage counselling to fix it ( he told )
I hate the fact he said he was devastated and will always feel he failed at marriage.
I hate hearing the phone ping and him replying.
I hate he asks her opinion on dc stuff.
I hate knowing he married her, I hate the thought of them cuddling in bed, laughing and talking.
Today we were talking and he mentioned he used to email her every morning after dropping the dc off at nursery, to update her, tell her he loved her and to have a good day. We were talking about how things end in relationships , to give context. He was saying that it was a hard habit to give up
He texts me similar every morning and I have always loved that, but now it feels tainted, like its not our thing.
I hate he bought a house with her after only 18 months of dating, but to me he has said he never wants to marry or share finances again. He says he loves me and sees me in his future but not us married.
I'm so so jealous. Its affecting my moods, my life, its all I think about.
I've never dated anyone with an ex because he's only my second relationship.
Is this normal? Is he normal? Is feeling this way normal? I feel out of control quite honestly.
This has been our weekend together and honestly I've ruined it, being quiet, brooding etc.
I've tried to talk to him about it and he's reassured me so many times, saying even if she came back saying she had made a terrible mistake, he would never go back. He says he could never forgive her etc. This weekend I said I hate I have to share him etc and he got irritated, telling me I was being silly, that it's only about the kids etc....
How can I stop ?
Is this even right for me?

Omg, he keeps you a secret?! This is NOT on. And doesn't want to live together? 15 texts a day? Too much. If he loved you, he'd tell her about you, no ifs and or buts. He says it's not her business but it IS if the kids know you. I'm sorry to hear this - no wonder you feel insecure!

@Moff2k what do you want medium to longer term? It is not for any of us on here to say YABU or not.

10-15 texts a day? Yes it sounds a little much if it’s consistently that much every day. But if they’re all about the children (and I recollect you saying they’re all child orientated and not remotely inappropriate), then what’s the issue? If it’s 5-10 a day, does that make it better?

Re the ex not knowing about you after 2 years? Yeah that’s odd. But equally why is it any of her business? I haven’t told my exh that my exp and I split up - it’s none of his business. He hasn’t seen him around for months and he hasn’t asked either. Why? Because he too knows it’s none of his business. We don’t discuss our dating/ relationships with one another, it’s not appropriate. I couldn’t care less who he’s dating/ seeing. Isn’t that healthy? 🤷🏽‍♀️

Re the living together and marrying again? I think that is a deeply personal decision and all divorcees will have their own reactions to that. Personally? No, I will not remarry. Divorce and the process was soul destroying. Financially I barely managed to keep hold of the roof over my head. It was horrible and has taken years to re establish financial equilibrium. I will never put myself at risk of going through anything like that again, for anyone. And for me, that is no sign of how committed I am or how much I love the person. I am just very clear that on this I put my needs first and I won’t go there. I am very transparent about that from the get go.

Living with someone? Again people have varying responses to this. It’s very personal. I now take the clear view that I won’t live with anyone until my children are adults and established away from me. I am not bringing another adult into my home with them. It’s too much like hard work and actually I’m very content just them and me. Again - I would happily be in a committed / loving relationship. Again I am very clear and transparent about that.

Now. If I met someone and they ultimately wanted marriage/ living together / to be a ‘family’ - we would be fundamentally incompatible. At a very core level. Neither one of us would be unreasonable to want what we wanted. We would however be unreasonable to continue to be in a relationship where core needs are not being met. Because over time that leads to resentment, insecurity, sadness. Which is understandable.

I think he’s been very clear with you. What he’s offering is all he’s prepared to offer. If that isn’t enough for you, you now have a decision to make.

It’s a thought situation. I’m sorry you’re going through this

@sassbott they are all about the children, he stresses and worries about every minute detail. He worries constantly about their well being , mental and physical health etc. He's a very different parent to me in that he overthinks. He carries a lot of guilt around the divorce. His eldest child has SEN so they discuss that a lot.
He worries constantly he isn't being a good enough dad so checks things with her all the time.
I was with him last night and he messaged frequently to remind her to book the dentist, to ask about homework and to ask her to print something that the smallest ds had obtained from school.
With regards her not knowing about me, I guess she must know on a certain level as he took cards and gifts from me to the children's birthday party. She's also seen me in the car and through his lounge window lol. So I'm not a secret as such but there's been no big announcement. However as yoi say, why should there be?
The posts that resonate the most with me are those that advise me to create my own security, to look after myself.
I do need to do that.
Thank you for your supportive words all.

Ah - ok. That sounds more positive. He sounds like a good father. Good luck OP!

I think he is, I just need to curb my jealousy. I've never dated anyone with an ex involved.

OP, what are you actually afraid of?

You aren't ever going to be able to erase his past, you can't turn back time and undo it. It just is, and you really have to accept that. You're driving yourself mad about something you literally cannot change.

And it's not as if she stole that from you. It was just where his life took him then. Maybe it would have been you, if you'd met. Maybe it wouldn't.

He loves the person you are now, there's no saying either of you would have felt the same about the people you were then

But it seems to me that you have a problem with self esteem - and that perhaps you are self-sabotaging this relationship because you don't actually think you deserve it. Which is while other issue to deal with.

I was really struck by your saying there's no kissing. Do you mean none at all, or are you expecting there to be teenage-style snogging all over the place? Was there lots of kissing in the early days? It's ok to want physical affection, but if you are basing your ideas of what is right or wrong in a relationship, kissing isn't the only barometer of relationship health. Relationships change. Or grow. Or develop. At the start it is frenzied can't-keep-your-hands-off-each-other. But that is unsustainable in the long run. The sleep deprivation alone does you in after a while!

But ultimately, if you want to be with him you have to accept that there are things he will always need to discuss with his ex, about their children, while the children are young. You can't avoid that. If you want to be with him you will have to deal with this.

I really think you would benefit from some kind of therapy or counselling because you clearly can't continue this level of destructive jealousy and unhappiness. It makes you miserable. And I expect it does him too.

Lest you think we’re all gaslighting you into ignoring your gut and overlooking his faults - we’re not. He has faults. Lots of them. And he has huge amounts of baggage!!!
But he has good points too - you’ve given us quite a few examples.
The bottom line is - how do you feel most if the time with him? Do you trust him? Would he stick by you if you were ill or in trouble? Does conversation flow well? Do you laugh together? Do you enjoy spending time with him? Do you both agree on what’s a good way to spend an afternoon/evening? Are your habits in sync? Do you think your relationship is moving forward, albeit slowly? Does he answer questions - really answer - that you ask? Does he listen to you - really listen? Do you think he likes and respects you? Do you think he cares about you?

Well the conversation raised its head again.
He had a heated text argument with exw and was very upset and hurt.
I pointed out how hurt he still feels when they argue , how after over 5 years of separation he should try and shrug it off or not let her talk to him like that.
He got defensive, said he will probably always be hurt, that I would be hurt if I had been the one divorced and not the instigator. I drove mine, he didn't.
He then said he struggles to understand what he did wrong still and started to give me examples of lovely things he did for her, and the nicknames they had fir each other.
I snapped at him I don't want to hear that.
He's adamant they are over but I'm not sure he's over it and I told him.
Now I've some nicknames to mull over in my head

@Moff2k

Well the conversation raised its head again. He had a heated text argument with exw and was very upset and hurt. I pointed out how hurt he still feels when they argue , how after over 5 years of separation he should try and shrug it off or not let her talk to him like that. He got defensive, said he will probably always be hurt, that I would be hurt if I had been the one divorced and not the instigator. I drove mine, he didn't. He then said he struggles to understand what he did wrong still and started to give me examples of lovely things he did for her, and the nicknames they had fir each other. I snapped at him I don't want to hear that. He's adamant they are over but I'm not sure he's over it and I told him. Now I've some nicknames to mull over in my head

See this sort of thing is exactly why I think posters have been too harsh with you. This is way too much baggage and residual feelings to expect a new partner to put up with and definitely to share with them, expecting comfort. He's taking the piss and being unreasonable here.

This doesn't sound good and I agree he hasn't moved on emotionally...five years...wow.

And yet he tells me any divorced man in his situation would be the same.
That he feels nothing but contempt for " her " but is still hurt by the situation.
I'm.not sure he will ever be over it. We went away for the weekend in December and he was sad as he said looking at all the families together reminded him what he had lost. When I objected to that he said he meant a family unit, his children being with him all the time, not her. He says he can't believe he was foolish enough to marry her with how much she's hurt him.
Oh I don't know....
I think I need to really really just concentrate on my life and see what happens.
At the moment I an so available and needy, he has no reason to step up or really think about what he could be losing. Im good to him !! I'm not unattractive, I have way more free time than him as my dc are grown. I have a good job, I just need to get out more sad reignite my social life and get some friends!!!!

I think your last post is spot on.

He takes to take responsibility for his emotional processing and some distance might be good for you both...he seems to want you to enable or even participate in this wallowing and regret, which is so wrong.

He's not right that any other divorced men would feel the same, he's trying to gaslight you there. And even if they did, they should have moved past these feelings before getting into a new relationship, and should never have expected to keep bringing them up with you! It really isn't on.

I think you're right that focusing on yourself is the way forward, that sounds like a great step. But I also think he sounds quite selfish and like he has very little regard for your feelings, and it would be a real shame to allow someone like that to further dampen your self esteem.

You have an Ex too. Get some counselling as you are going to ruin everything with this jealousy. It’s completely pointless and not fair.
Good luck.

@3luckystars

You have an Ex too. Get some counselling as you are going to ruin everything with this jealousy. It’s completely pointless and not fair. Good luck.

Have you read OPs recent comments?

Ugh, sounds like he's not over her...the opposite of love is indifference, not hate (or wallowing in regret). Five years later, too. Does she have someone?

To start with I thought the issue was you. Skimming through to the end, I think it's both of you.

You do have issues op - I would really encourage you to seek therapy. It will help you. Jealousy can't be helped but it isn't nice and there is help out there for you to deal with these insecurities that you have.

However he is clearly talking about his ex too much. As a single mother of 3 dcs with 2 absolutely crap (yes I know, I'm doing great in life) dads, I think he sounds like an excellent father - I would actually find it attractive in a man that has good communication with the mother of his children.

I felt insecure about my exH's ex. I could never figure out why. I still don't really know but I was there. Part of me wanted to be like her, part of me stalked here social media from time to time. I couldn't control it and it was unhealthy - I sympathise with you op.

However constantly talking about the sadness he feels would be unattractive to me as it would anyone. It happened, move on. He maybe hasn't fully moved on. I'd suggest he has therapy too to help find out where his heart is really at.

@maskedwoman

To start with I thought the issue was you. Skimming through to the end, I think it's both of you.

You do have issues op - I would really encourage you to seek therapy. It will help you. Jealousy can't be helped but it isn't nice and there is help out there for you to deal with these insecurities that you have.

However he is clearly talking about his ex too much. As a single mother of 3 dcs with 2 absolutely crap (yes I know, I'm doing great in life) dads, I think he sounds like an excellent father - I would actually find it attractive in a man that has good communication with the mother of his children.

I felt insecure about my exH's ex. I could never figure out why. I still don't really know but I was there. Part of me wanted to be like her, part of me stalked here social media from time to time. I couldn't control it and it was unhealthy - I sympathise with you op.

However constantly talking about the sadness he feels would be unattractive to me as it would anyone. It happened, move on. He maybe hasn't fully moved on. I'd suggest he has therapy too to help find out where his heart is really at.

I should add - my exH was controlling and emotionally abusive to me. I don't know i was jealous of his ex as I maybe thought he never treated her like that. I have no idea. ExH never really spoke kindly of her or ever spoke about nice times they had like your OH is doing.

But now I am out of the relationship, she doesn't bother me at all. I am no longer jealous of her, don't give her a second thought. It's strange.

I get it,OP. I have felt the same as you and what he is doing isn't helping. He is way oversharing little details that have nothing to do with your relationship. He should be focusing in making new memories and sharing new experiences with you not cry over what he used to do for his ex and where they have been and what they have done.

He often reassures you that he loves you etc etc but in the end of the day words are cheap. Have there been any actions to match those words? Any actions that what you two have it's special in its own way and not comparable with his ex?

Posters have said to you it's all in the past and let it go but it sounds like he often brings up the past.

I agree that it's time to stop being readily available and look to focus on yourself and your well being.

If you want to work on this relationship then maybe suggest to do things that neither of you have ever done before. Visit places that are new to you both, try unusual food you have never tasted, etc etc. That way maybe you can feel a bit more secure in the knowledge that this is 'your' thing and he hasn't shared that with anyone else.

OP. I personally now having read your updates would not have said your issue was being overly jealous but rather that there are some glaring red flags here and rather than saying 'nope' and putting a line down for your own benefit youre proceeding with him and playing a pick me dance which leads to insecurity. Youre not his therapist, he shouldn't be lamenting his pain from 5 years ago to you and living it out daily when he gets into spats with her. Its wholly inappropriate! He shouldn't be trying to be in a relationship when he is still playing the game in his last one. None of this is your drama or your choice but you're deeply embedded in it and causing yourself pain by staying in it. I would recommend you make it really clear that firstly. Loads of people 5 years post separation move on and dont carry continual hurt. And secondly it doesn't matter because you dont want to be part of this drama he has going on. It needs to stop or you're gone.

Sorry I hadn’t read the updates either at the time I posted. Apologies.

@Moff2k based on your updates I’m actually doing a total reverse.

I’ve been divorced over 5 years, separated for more. The feelings he describes? Feeling sad seeing families? Wondering why happened. All completely natural. In the following months/ year/ 18 months. I remember feeling that way for months after my exh and I separated. When decree absolute landed, that also triggered waves of sadness. And questions of why.

5/6 years on. Do I feel sad? Maybe very occasionally from time to time and even then it’s fleeting. I’m very content with my amicable co parenting relationship. My old family is gone but I have a new family structure and am very happy. I cannot even remember the last time I reminisced about times with my exh.

If you told me he was a year, even 2 from his separation, I would understand. I wouldn’t understand why he was in committed relationship feeling this way however. 5 years on and he feels like this? It’s not remotely healthy. He hasn’t processed the end of his ‘family’ and until he does, he won’t be emotionally available for you, or anyone else.

I absolutely stand by my views on marriage/ financials/ co-habitting. But for me those are based on cold hard pragmatic facts. Not because I am hung up on my exh and what I have lost.

This must be torture. He’s just not available for you, he’s so caught up in what he had. He’s stuck in the past and not remotely available for what is in front of him in the present.

I’m sorry but I’m not entirely sure that if continue as is, whether that will ever change. He needs to make the choice to let it go and move on. Not remain on victim mode/ perpetual cycle of grief.

Op I said it before and I’ll say it again, listen to your instincts. Trust them. You might have some issues with jealousy but I genuinely think these are being fuelled. I think you’re an ‘option’ to this man.

Sorry OP, but it really sounds that he is not 'over' her.

And you deserve better than someone like this.

I'd say ditch him and move on.

I feel like there’s some triangulation going on here too. You’re drawn into it; trying to ‘win’ him over by buying gifts for his kids etc.