Is it me? Am I toxic ?

[Moff2k]

Been with DP 2 years. We are both divorced and don't live together. We see each other a lot though, the 50% of time he doesn't have his primary school age dc infact. Mine are young adults.
I always stay at his because my dc don't see their dad.
DP is only my second relationship and I'm 48.
I was with exdh from 17 until my early 40s then got with DP.

I feel unsettled and don't know why. I've googled it and it appears I suffer from retroactive jealousy.
I hate hearing about him and his exw. They coparent 500 so are in touch a lot. Daily infact. Its only about the dc. I've seen message's and heard phone calls, its always child related. But it bothers me SO much. I'm so jealous.
I hate that she ended it and he asked for marriage counselling to fix it ( he told )
I hate the fact he said he was devastated and will always feel he failed at marriage.
I hate hearing the phone ping and him replying.
I hate he asks her opinion on dc stuff.
I hate knowing he married her, I hate the thought of them cuddling in bed, laughing and talking.
Today we were talking and he mentioned he used to email her every morning after dropping the dc off at nursery, to update her, tell her he loved her and to have a good day. We were talking about how things end in relationships , to give context. He was saying that it was a hard habit to give up
He texts me similar every morning and I have always loved that, but now it feels tainted, like its not our thing.
I hate he bought a house with her after only 18 months of dating, but to me he has said he never wants to marry or share finances again. He says he loves me and sees me in his future but not us married.
I'm so so jealous. Its affecting my moods, my life, its all I think about.
I've never dated anyone with an ex because he's only my second relationship.
Is this normal? Is he normal? Is feeling this way normal? I feel out of control quite honestly.
This has been our weekend together and honestly I've ruined it, being quiet, brooding etc.
I've tried to talk to him about it and he's reassured me so many times, saying even if she came back saying she had made a terrible mistake, he would never go back. He says he could never forgive her etc. This weekend I said I hate I have to share him etc and he got irritated, telling me I was being silly, that it's only about the kids etc....
How can I stop ?
Is this even right for me?

How would you feel carrying on in this relationship, as is, for the rest of your days. With no forward movement, no marriage, no live together? Some are very happy with such a set up, some would like more. That's perfectly ok! But, it was me that said the warm body comment, speaking from experience, the longer you stay, the more 2nd best you will feel if he won't let the relationship grow naturally rather than imposing boundaries based on fear not love.

(Protecting finances as some have mentioned for kids etc can be done easily with a visit to a solicitor, my family did such.)

I felt not enough in that relationship because I wasn't imposing my own boundaries of what I do need, he actually wasn't enough.....and that's ok. I don't hate him for it, we are friends for sharing that time together but I did learn I couldn't be with someone who wasn't open to the joy in their lives that a healthy live together partnership in our golden years can bring.

(No kisses! Sod that too!)

OP, I think if many of us sat down and thought back to our first loves, with no children, no responsibility and we could just be crazy and impulsive we would all think of them fondly. But we know that is not real life now. Things change. This man text you every morning to say have a good day. He is not controlling, and goodness knows on MN so many men are. He seems to be a good Dad and has not abandoned his child. He has an amicable relationship with his ex. These are all good qualities yet they make you feel jealous. By 50 surely every man you meet will have a relationship history. He says he does not want marriage. You need to decide if that is a deal breaker for you but this man sounds nice and there are so many nasty and controlling men out there if you throw this one back would you get a better one? He is loving and caring towards you and in time if you stop pressuring him, when his kid grows up he might change his mind about marriage. Over time you might want to move on to a new relationship. One thing though if you keep trying to get him to give more than he wants/feels able to you will push him away. Does he say why he does not want to go on holiday with you?

I experienced something like this feeling when after leaving an awful abusive man I then (much later) dated a fairly civilised man.
I think I was jealous of her because she hadn't a clue I felt. She got maintenance, she got half a house, she was going to get a share of his pension. But it wasn't really that I was jealous of her it just highlighted how grim my situation had been and was. The financial repercussions of not having been married, having left with nothing, literally, a rucksack and 2 dc. So her situation seemed so privileged compared to my own. But I was comparing myself to her as one single mother to another. It wasn't that much to do with the man i was dating, her xh. I ended up finishing it because he was so quiet. He just wanted to sit in silence, companionable silence he may have thought but I wanted a more thoughtful curious person.

ps, I didn't marry my abusive x, but now that I'm back on my feet I would never ever marry anybody. I'm 51 so don't see it as relevant at this point in my life. My DC are teens, whatever I have will go to them. Simple.
Not to the children of a man I marry if I die first!!

I don't think it's being taken advantage of, if marriage is off the table, not in a second relationship with a fellow divorced person.

It's not like you're about to have a child with him, give up work etc..

Just keep your own finances safe! Don't go part time so you're around to cook meals for him or any bullshit like that.

Get in to the habit of looking after yourself. You say you'd better get it together or you'll ''lose him'' like that would be the end of the world. maybe it would be the making of you.

Maybe I swung too far the other way but I just find it really hard to meet somebody I like who likes me back and even if I do, I never want to MERGE LIVES with them. Blimey, why.

Default for me is single. But default for some women is coupled up.

@Moff2k

I never got jealous in my marriage. He was overly controlling and jealous of me, it was suffocating........ironically it was what ended it.

This is interesting. My abusive x was so controlling that I never felt insecure in that relationship. I felt controlled and afraid.

Later when I was trying to date, all the unavailable avoidant men out there did trigger my insecure attachment style.

Dating was torture for me. I never got to the point where I felt I could relax. 7 years spent dating on an off and every time I was with somebody I was thinking it'll end soon. I grew to stop caring. I went in to ''relationships'' just to have a quick break from being single. No expectation of it working. None.

This is why not dating at all has brought such peace.

It's definitely not healthy but I'm not sure you're 100% at fault here. Why is he telling you so much about his past relationship? It seems he's not over the hurt at all which is understandable but he should deal with that privately not be harping on to you about it (unless your jealously causes you to keep asking him about it?) how long was he separated before he got with you?

Perhaps you're just not suited to being with someone with this much "baggage" and should find someone with no DC/older DC. I know I personally couldn't cope with your set up - I'm too selfish and would hate it so I know it would be a disaster and so I'd avoid for everyone's sake.

@Dearblossom

How would you feel carrying on in this relationship, as is, for the rest of your days. With no forward movement, no marriage, no live together? Some are very happy with such a set up, some would like more. That's perfectly ok! But, it was me that said the warm body comment, speaking from experience, the longer you stay, the more 2nd best you will feel if he won't let the relationship grow naturally rather than imposing boundaries based on fear not love.

(Protecting finances as some have mentioned for kids etc can be done easily with a visit to a solicitor, my family did such.)

I felt not enough in that relationship because I wasn't imposing my own boundaries of what I do need, he actually wasn't enough.....and that's ok. I don't hate him for it, we are friends for sharing that time together but I did learn I couldn't be with someone who wasn't open to the joy in their lives that a healthy live together partnership in our golden years can bring.

(No kisses! Sod that too!)

This! The general mood of post-divorce cynicism on MN is so depressing. It is entirely possible (depending on one's financial situation, admittedly) to commit to a new life partner and even marry WHILE prioritising one's children and protecting their inheritance. Period. Plus, children grow up and start their own lives and aren't necessarily around when one is older. I can identify with a lot of what you said, and PP are right about how therapy could help. However! I also feel that a lot of divorced men (particularly those with children and support payments) -- and divorced women for that matter, use the 'divorce trauma' and 'my children come first ' line as an excuse to not commit. Because they simply don't love and trust the person enough to do so. But also don't want to lose the regular sex, help with childcare, companionship and everything else that comes with a LTR. Believing in romance (while balancing parental responsibilities) and seeking commitment does not make you naive, immature or overdemanding. So if he doesn't feel/want the same thing, it may be time to move on :-( Also, if he and ex get on so well, and he wouldn't want her back, what is he traumatised about? (So long after the split).

*Yes it is you, and yes you are walking the path to abuse.

It is despicable to punish someone for the life they had before.*

Woah, this is WAY too harsh.

Yes this is your issue and yes you need help to work through your issues or you will lose him

@aSofaNearYou

*Yes it is you, and yes you are walking the path to abuse.

It is despicable to punish someone for the life they had before.*

Woah, this is WAY too harsh.

Way too harsh? The op has said This has been our weekend together and honestly I've ruined it, being quiet, brooding etc.

What is that if not sulking and punishing him for having the temerity to have a past?

We know what would be said if a woman posted saying her new bf was ‘brooding’ over her healthy co-parenting situation and wasn’t happy with her boundaries about marriage.

@sammylady37 I shared my opinion earlier but I don't think it's fair to oberburden your partner with too much about your past relationships, especially if those feelings are regret etc. I think he has created a situation where it is hard for OP not to dwell on it. I don't think she is abusive, I think some responsibility lies with him for over sharing and expecting her to be fine with it all.

[quote aSofaNearYou]@sammylady37 I shared my opinion earlier but I don't think it's fair to oberburden your partner with too much about your past relationships, especially if those feelings are regret etc. I think he has created a situation where it is hard for OP not to dwell on it. I don't think she is abusive, I think some responsibility lies with him for over sharing and expecting her to be fine with it all. [/quote]
Has he been overburdening her with regret though? Or is she quizzing him? Or has he casually mentioned something and she has ruminated on it endlessly?

I do think that sulking and brooding and ruining a weekend as she admits she has done, is abusive. Read any thread about the silent treatment here and you’ll see people almost universally agree that such behaviour is toxic and abusive.

There are things he has told you that he shouldn't have told you.

Her choices do seem to mean you can't marry him. I wouldn't like that either.

Two PP have commented on how it is entirely possible to remarry and completely protect your assets. In England as of now, no. It is not. There is no bullet proof way of ring fencing assets so that they are never touched/ a legal challenge is potentially mounted.

I’ve taken advice on this twice in the previous few years. Co-habitting agreements are relatively straightforward. But again with very clear guidelines - no contributions towards refurbs/ decorating etc. Even with a cohabiting agreement, if over a longer term someone can prove that they put in £15k to part fund an extension (as an example), that is ground for a claim to be made for payment in the event of a separation. The longer term the relationship, the more chance of some sort of claim being made.

Marriage is higher risk. And absolutely, legal agreements can be put in place to mitigate risk. But any family lawyer worth their salt will always err on the side of caution and clearly say the risk is higher. Examples like having a bedroom for EOW for contact? On separation a claim can be made as courts will view that as ‘family children’ that a settlement needs to account for. One partner suddenly going long term sick/ unable to work, again can change things. And again the longer term the marriage the more complexities that can arise.

My lawyers, both times have been clear.
LTR with separate homes? Winning
Cohabiting? Relatively straightforward with the right agreement - obey the strict rules around what is being contributed to the house however.
Marriage? If you have significant pre marital assets. Risk is higher and go into the marriage knowing that.

Another lesser known point is whether your partner / husband / wife has a clean break (or in fact any financial order against their ex). If they don’t, be aware that once you cohabit, an ex can open financial proceedings and whilst it is not common, financial disclosure can also be ordered from the new partner/ spouse if things like spousal maintenance is being reviewed.

Too many people with minimal actual knowledge of the legal system comment on these threads. And that is just dangerous.

[quote aSofaNearYou]@sammylady37 I shared my opinion earlier but I don't think it's fair to oberburden your partner with too much about your past relationships, especially if those feelings are regret etc. I think he has created a situation where it is hard for OP not to dwell on it. I don't think she is abusive, I think some responsibility lies with him for over sharing and expecting her to be fine with it all. [/quote]
It reads to me like OP quizzes him on what he used to do with the ex and past relationships. Jealous people tend to do that. I think her partners been very honest with her. If she couldn't handle that, she shouldn't get into conversations about the past.

@sassbott

Two PP have commented on how it is entirely possible to remarry and completely protect your assets. In England as of now, no. It is not. There is no bullet proof way of ring fencing assets so that they are never touched/ a legal challenge is potentially mounted.

I’ve taken advice on this twice in the previous few years. Co-habitting agreements are relatively straightforward. But again with very clear guidelines - no contributions towards refurbs/ decorating etc. Even with a cohabiting agreement, if over a longer term someone can prove that they put in £15k to part fund an extension (as an example), that is ground for a claim to be made for payment in the event of a separation. The longer term the relationship, the more chance of some sort of claim being made.

Marriage is higher risk. And absolutely, legal agreements can be put in place to mitigate risk. But any family lawyer worth their salt will always err on the side of caution and clearly say the risk is higher. Examples like having a bedroom for EOW for contact? On separation a claim can be made as courts will view that as ‘family children’ that a settlement needs to account for. One partner suddenly going long term sick/ unable to work, again can change things. And again the longer term the marriage the more complexities that can arise.

My lawyers, both times have been clear.
LTR with separate homes? Winning
Cohabiting? Relatively straightforward with the right agreement - obey the strict rules around what is being contributed to the house however.
Marriage? If you have significant pre marital assets. Risk is higher and go into the marriage knowing that.

Another lesser known point is whether your partner / husband / wife has a clean break (or in fact any financial order against their ex). If they don’t, be aware that once you cohabit, an ex can open financial proceedings and whilst it is not common, financial disclosure can also be ordered from the new partner/ spouse if things like spousal maintenance is being reviewed.

Too many people with minimal actual knowledge of the legal system comment on these threads. And that is just dangerous.

Or.......the new marriage could work.

@AubadeIsIt well of course it could. Where did I say it couldn’t? The point I was addressing was about the comments that protecting pre marital assets is very straightforward. In England, as of now, it is not. Especially when parties have children that pre date the new marriage/ exes/ and either no financial order or a financial order with no clean break.

If someone wishes to take the plunge knowing those legal facts, then that’s their choice and I wish them well. Sadly I see a few too many threads on here where people have left themselves exposed financially by assuming/ believing these matters are straightforward.

@UserBot314159 that is exactly how I feel.
She had it all compared to what I had. It makes me feel so jealous and also so stupid as to how I ended up with such a controlling abusive ex, when men like DP were out there.

Sorry, but you must accept this person is going to be "around" for the foreseeable future.
Own your insecurities, don't delve in to his past and live in the present (Eckhart Tolle).
P.s, lots of exercise, will help work it out.

It sounds like this is more a self esteem issue than anything. You're not stupid for having an abusive ex - anyone can end up in that situation. She is not better than you for having been with him. Most people have a past, and them having loved someone else in the past does not mean they still love them or that you have to try and measure up. You're a different person in a different situation and there's no point comparing the two. I disagree that his reticence to marry again means he doesn't love you enough - it's perfectly plausible that he feels like he's had that experience and doesn't want to repeat it or rush into things again regardless of who he's dating. I would definitely recommend therapy to help you feel valid within yourself and not needing these external markers of validation from someone else.

[quote Moff2k]@UserBot314159 that is exactly how I feel.
She had it all compared to what I had. It makes me feel so jealous and also so stupid as to how I ended up with such a controlling abusive ex, when men like DP were out there.[/quote]
I do get this. I had to make peace with the fact that i hadnt just ended up a single parent, but that id allowed myself to be plundered like a resource. My time, my ability to earn, my ability to save, my loss of freedom; all plundered

My advice to you is to get security. Even if its not excessive wealth or financial success, get a secure roof over your head, as small and as modest as it might be. A secure job made me feel safe again. I just need to feel safe and secure. Over time i built up my own self and realised that i was more secure than the average married woman who is often at her husband's mercy; that he be fair, that he not leave her for somebody younger because he can, (im 51 so this has happen3d to people i envied 15 years ago) that he take half of the responsibility, share half the freedom, make half of the sacrifices.

Eventually i ended up not caring about the mistakes i made because im safer now than i would be if i were married to "the average man".

It sounds as though you could benefit from counselling for yourself, sounds like you (understandably) have a lot of issues from your marriage and perhaps before.

I totally get your frustration over the years you wasted on a lousy, controlling relationship with your ex. It's something I try not to dwell on and instead remind myself that it was a (sigh) valuable learning experience for me ... and if I hadn't had that experience, maybe I would have made even worse choices, and been one of the many women who ends up killed by their partner. But some days I just feel jealous of those who were luckier the first time round!

But remember that's not your current partner's fault, or his ex's.

You can have the happy, loving, healthy relationship you deserve ... but it's possible it isn't with this man, if you really want marriage and he isn't comfortable with that (I agree that that could be simply that he wants to protect his children, not that he doesn't care for you).

And it's also possible that you might hinder a new relationship with your anxieties, jealousies, and insecurities. I'm not saying you're a bad person. These things are very painful to you, you don't want it to be this way! But I think you could really benefit from taking a step back from the current relationship and doing some work with a counsellor.

And also I love what UserBot has to say about security! Good idea. Create your own loving and secure world for yourself.