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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

WWYD - not married but dp wanting to regard finances as combined

85 replies

HooverItUp · 10/01/2022 17:17

have name changed as his family on here!

we have been going out for around 6 years, living together for 4. He moved into my house. We are both early 50s. I am a high earner and have always earned significantly more than him. He used to have a very good job which he lost in 2019 and then his industry was destroyed by Covid. We don't combine our finances but we do have a joint account where we buy things like food, takeaways, trips to the vet for the animals etc. His contribution was to put a small amount of money into that account each month representing the fact that my bills were higher with him living with me. I then put a larger amount in each month and topped it up if the account ran dry.

He has masses of outgoings meaning his disposable income has always been low and he had v little savings. When he lost his job (late 2019) he got into financial trouble v quickly and started taking money out of the joint account for his own expenses. I stopped him at that point and said if this was going to be a permanent thing, we needed to agree an amount (a limit to what he could take) and a timescale after which it had to stop. He agreed to both things. He still pays for the mortgage on a property he owns which is due to be sold this year (he owns it jointly with his ex and there is a court agreement to sell it now their youngest has moved out). His equity in the house easily covers the debt he owes me.

Over the last 2 years, he has had sporadic employment, about half the time he's been able to meet his own costs, the other half of the time he's needed to 'borrow' money from me. He has finally found out this weekend he's got a permanent job he applied for and for the first time in ages, he will have disposable income. I must say at no point did I ever feel he was taking the piss - he worked as hard as he could, looked for a job as hard as he could and took what work he could get.

I'm v pleased for him and obviously for me too but we had a discussion this weekend about how much he would begin to pay into the joint account and whether he would start paying any of the debt back and he said that his plan is to pay all the excess into his pension because he hasn't been able to pay into this for 2 years and it's the most tax efficient way. He is right in terms of the tax efficiency. His argument is that our retirement plan is made up of 3 bits - 1, selling my house and downscaling and the released equity forms part of the money we live off/invest plus the remaining equity in his house, 2 his pension which is far larger than mine already (he had far more generous ex employers than me!) and 3 my pension which is v small in comparison to his.

So he argues that by paying into his pension he is effectively benefitting us both as it is part of the overall plan. He's right but it leaves me very exposed if we break up. He says there is a debt agreement for the amount he owes (there is) and that this is just an efficient use of money. I just feel resentful that after supporting him for 2 years, he doesn't seem to think that contributing to day to day costs is a priority especially as I won't have visibility of what is going into that pension (or not as the case may be).

He feels that there needs to be trust in this relationship or what's the point and he feels hurt that he's suggesting something that he feels will benefit us both (albeit in the future).

WWYD?

OP posts:
LadyDanburysHat · 10/01/2022 17:20

He is thinking of number one, not both of you. I'd tell him back that you're hurt that he still wants you to bankroll him even though he is earning more.

CheshireKitten123 · 10/01/2022 17:22

Do not have combined finances with a partner you are not married to, especially as you are the high earner.

Also see a solicitor about a co-habitation agreement to protect yourself.

PatriotCanes · 10/01/2022 17:25

He feels that there needs to be trust in this relationship or what's the point and he feels hurt that he's suggesting something that he feels will benefit us both

Only in theory, if you're still together, with joint finances. For now? Not so much. His insistence on you playing nice and being kind - at your expense - would have my spidey senses tingling.

Wombat98 · 10/01/2022 17:25

Could pay into your pension?

HooverItUp · 10/01/2022 17:25

I don't want to get married again. We are both divorced so I just don't want to go down that path. I would rather we kept things as separate as possible but unfortunately his job loss then Covid slightly killed my plans for that.

Ok I'm glad you both think the same as me. I will insist that income comes back into the joint account rather than going towards his pension.

OP posts:
Dillydollydingdong · 10/01/2022 17:28

He's taking the piss.

LilyWater · 10/01/2022 17:31

The reality is you've both currently chosen to live in a non committal relationship otherwise this wouldn't come up as an issue.

The "trust " he's referring to is that you both trust that you will spend the rest of your lives together since your plans include retirement and financially supporting each other. Therefore I assume you both want to and have concrete plans to marry each other? If not, why not? If he doesn't plan to marry you and therefore commit to each other, this changes everything.

FFSFFSFFS · 10/01/2022 17:31

Get him to pay you and then you can put the equivalent amount of your salary into your pension - and thereby achieve exactly the same tax savings.

His response to that will tell you everything you need to know….

I hope I’m wrong but I am sorry about how i suspect this will pan out.

Ariela · 10/01/2022 17:33

Surely the most tax efficient way is for him to pay the debt back by paying it as contributions to YOUR pension, thereby evening up your pensions?

LilyWater · 10/01/2022 17:33

Cross posted. Just seen you don't intend to marry him OP.

HooverItUp · 10/01/2022 17:36

he wants to marry me, I don't want to get married again. Getting divorced once was enough for me. Being a high earner I am suspicious about anyone wanting to marry me (sorry to say) as it invariably means a great financial deal for them and a not so great deal for me.

In dp's defence, I had absolutely no suspicions about him till he lost his job. He contributed every month as we had discussed up to that point. But once he lost his job, he became desperate very very quickly and Covid didn't help as the industry he works in was just destroyed by it. We had already been going out a few years by that point so I felt I could support him financially and should and I knew that he would find his feet again. But I do want him to be fair now as I was fair to him over the last few years.

OP posts:
onlyk · 10/01/2022 17:37

Agree the above.

He’s looking after number one. As said above it can go in your pension after all he already has a generous pension!

He needs to pay you back now he can. The fact he wasn’t planning on doing that rings loud alarm bells for me.

Also sort out paying 50/50 for joint bills, he’s got a job now so should be paying his way and not depending on you to sub him so he can effectively build up his own savings and pensions!!!!!

jimmyjammy001 · 10/01/2022 17:37

Your both later on in life, so to combine both your finances at this stage would just be crazy, same as getting married, there's no point, you need to work it out fairly, topping up his pension and then in 10 years time you break up then you will be loosing out, he needs to reign in his spending if he's in debt, he will need the sale of his house and his pension to be financially viable for the future

HooverItUp · 10/01/2022 17:37

I will suggest he pays the money into the joint account and it can go into my pension, that's a good idea. It isn't as tax efficient for him or me but his reaction is the important thing.

OP posts:
FinallyHere · 10/01/2022 17:38

Absolutely, he should pay you back so you can pay into your own pension, for those magnificent tax benefits.

Agree how much he needs to pay back, he can start paying into his own pension thereafter.

Good luck.

AnneLovesGilbert · 10/01/2022 17:39

He’s being stunningly selfish and entitled. This is your thanks for propping him up for two years. I wouldn’t trust him one bit.

Stand your ground. He’s already abused your generosity so travel very cautiously.

HooverItUp · 10/01/2022 17:43

thanks all - I'm glad you all agree. This is the sort of thing I don't discuss with my family/friends as money is always one of those things people don't like to talk about (and everyone just assumes I have loads!).

I will speak to him later tonight.

OP posts:
TheGoldenWolfFleece · 10/01/2022 17:43

He's using you to feather his own nest. Seeing as you've been bankrolling him, he needs to pay you back first.

minipie · 10/01/2022 17:44

I would say either get married or keep things separate financially. Not a hybrid.

I have to say though, I would consider what messaging you are giving him. He wants a married relationship, and married finances. Joint retirement planning. He would bring various things to the “pot” if you were married and he’s not taken the piss wrt to his non earning period, and now has a job, so there is no cocklodging or gold digging here. On the other hand, you want him to be a live in boyfriend but no commitment, no joint financial planning. In his shoes I’d feel a bit hurt and like you didn’t see me as a lifelong partner. Just saying!

AdaColeman · 10/01/2022 17:45

By putting all his available money into his own pension, while you continue to fund his day to day lifestyle, he's obviously putting himself first.
His talk of being hurt that you don't agree to his self serving scheme, is a hefty slice of emotional blackmail to try to force you into agreeing with him.

What's to stop him piling his money into his pension until he retires, then clearing off into the sunset with it all? Meanwhile, you haven't been able to save at all, as you've been spending your money on keeping him in the style to which he's become accustomed.

I'd guess that he is taking advantage of you, and has been for some time, but he's manipulated you into believing that his view of your financial set up is fair. It isn't, it's all to his advantage!

FFSFFSFFS · 10/01/2022 17:49

The tax efficiencies are basically the same though aren’t they if you’re both higher rate?

Rainbowqueeen · 10/01/2022 17:49

He should pay you back in one lump sum with the equity from the house surely??
And be incredibly grateful that you bankrolled him all this time.

Hb12 · 10/01/2022 17:49

He can pay what he likes into his pension once he has covered his living expenses, joint savings etc.

Does he genuinely think he should continue to live for free? This says nothing good about him

Mojoj · 10/01/2022 17:52

I would be very cautious. Suggest he pays you what he owes you and you can use it to top up your pension. In your shoes I would keep my finances clearly separate from his.

Winniemarysarah · 10/01/2022 17:56

I know you say you feel he’s tried his best when it comes to finances and getting a job, it seems to me like he’s blatantly taken the piss the entire time though