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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

WWYD - not married but dp wanting to regard finances as combined

85 replies

HooverItUp · 10/01/2022 17:17

have name changed as his family on here!

we have been going out for around 6 years, living together for 4. He moved into my house. We are both early 50s. I am a high earner and have always earned significantly more than him. He used to have a very good job which he lost in 2019 and then his industry was destroyed by Covid. We don't combine our finances but we do have a joint account where we buy things like food, takeaways, trips to the vet for the animals etc. His contribution was to put a small amount of money into that account each month representing the fact that my bills were higher with him living with me. I then put a larger amount in each month and topped it up if the account ran dry.

He has masses of outgoings meaning his disposable income has always been low and he had v little savings. When he lost his job (late 2019) he got into financial trouble v quickly and started taking money out of the joint account for his own expenses. I stopped him at that point and said if this was going to be a permanent thing, we needed to agree an amount (a limit to what he could take) and a timescale after which it had to stop. He agreed to both things. He still pays for the mortgage on a property he owns which is due to be sold this year (he owns it jointly with his ex and there is a court agreement to sell it now their youngest has moved out). His equity in the house easily covers the debt he owes me.

Over the last 2 years, he has had sporadic employment, about half the time he's been able to meet his own costs, the other half of the time he's needed to 'borrow' money from me. He has finally found out this weekend he's got a permanent job he applied for and for the first time in ages, he will have disposable income. I must say at no point did I ever feel he was taking the piss - he worked as hard as he could, looked for a job as hard as he could and took what work he could get.

I'm v pleased for him and obviously for me too but we had a discussion this weekend about how much he would begin to pay into the joint account and whether he would start paying any of the debt back and he said that his plan is to pay all the excess into his pension because he hasn't been able to pay into this for 2 years and it's the most tax efficient way. He is right in terms of the tax efficiency. His argument is that our retirement plan is made up of 3 bits - 1, selling my house and downscaling and the released equity forms part of the money we live off/invest plus the remaining equity in his house, 2 his pension which is far larger than mine already (he had far more generous ex employers than me!) and 3 my pension which is v small in comparison to his.

So he argues that by paying into his pension he is effectively benefitting us both as it is part of the overall plan. He's right but it leaves me very exposed if we break up. He says there is a debt agreement for the amount he owes (there is) and that this is just an efficient use of money. I just feel resentful that after supporting him for 2 years, he doesn't seem to think that contributing to day to day costs is a priority especially as I won't have visibility of what is going into that pension (or not as the case may be).

He feels that there needs to be trust in this relationship or what's the point and he feels hurt that he's suggesting something that he feels will benefit us both (albeit in the future).

WWYD?

OP posts:
HooverItUp · 10/01/2022 18:01

@FFSFFSFFS he can salary sacrifice his pension so by not paying directly, it is worse for his pot and him

@minipie that is how he sees it entirely! One difference though - i think I showed commitment by supporting him in the period he needed support. I didn't have to financially support him but I did and I can't see how that can be overlooked. I just don't want to get married again.

@Hb12 he doesn't see it as free. In his mind, he's committed to pay me back (the debt) when the house is sold (there is a debt agreement for this) and then he feels his contribution to the pension will benefit us both.

I don't think he will baulk when I discuss this again - what is making me a bit alarmed is that he thought his suggestion was fine in the first place.

OP posts:
Schr0dingersreindeer · 10/01/2022 18:04

He seems to be forgetting that he still has to meet his 'outgoings' ie his half of the bills, housekeeping and such. Then he can start working on reducing his debt to you. After that he can start thinking of pensions! He's deffo thinking only of himself

youvegottenminuteslynn · 10/01/2022 18:06

If you stay together he benefits and you benefit.

If you break up he benefits and you don't.

So it's not a fair set up.

FFSFFSFFS · 10/01/2022 18:06

Even if your e
Player doesn’t do salary sacrifice that’s not a huge difference I don’t think? It only reduces nics not tax - so you can still make a greater
Tax
Free contribution to your pension which you will benefit from and the difference in your net income is what he can pay. Don’t let him hoodwink you that the nics contributions make his salary sacrifice mzkes it worth keeping the money you gave him! He is really taking the piss…

FFSFFSFFS · 10/01/2022 18:07

Your employer!

MrMrsJones · 10/01/2022 18:12

He pays his debt to you back first

Then you both put 50/50 into the pot.

You can both do what ever you want with your own excess.

I would make sure your house stays in your name or if you sell you both put in 50/50 deposit

Bubblesandsqueak1 · 10/01/2022 18:22

To be fair I think it should be split half into his pension and half paid back to you for yours it is the fairest most realistic thing to do

WineAway · 10/01/2022 18:33

How did I know that you’d say you’re the higher earner? He’s taking the P.

FFSFFSFFS · 10/01/2022 18:34

To be clear in my scenario the total
He pays back of what he owes equals the difference in your net income - he doesn’t get to say that the gross pension payment is the equivalent of what he’s paying back - which sounds like the kind of thing he might do….

UnderTheMoonlightWeDanced · 10/01/2022 18:41

My mum did this -
It was all her investing in their future while he didn’t work including paying for all his driving lessons that would benefit “them” didn’t stop him cheating on her she kicked him out obviously and lost 1000s in a future she’d invested in for them…

Workin8til6 · 10/01/2022 18:43

You did trust him when you lent him all that money. Now he needs to show you that you were not an idiot to do so, and pay it back. Direct to you. After he’s done this he’s free to do whatever he wants with his spare cash providing he is paying his fair share towards bills.

TheUnicornDuck · 10/01/2022 18:44

I am in a similar situation to yourself. I have much more money than my DP. I lent him some to clear a dept that was high interest which will benefit us both in the short term, cos he will have more money! But he pays it off slowly because he is contributing to a pension that he otherwise wouldnt. If we stay together this will long term benefit us both if we dont it will benefit him but I wont have exploited him for money to just 'throw on the pile' (not exactly but you know what I mean). That seems fair to both of us, I think you need find a compromise that seems fair to both of you.

IncompleteSenten · 10/01/2022 18:44

I would not combine finances with someone I wasn't married to.

Geppili · 10/01/2022 18:48

He is selfish and pushing your boundaries. I bet he wants to marry you! The priority right now is to pay you pack asap. I think he is hoping that you will sort of write his debt off especially if he manages to marry you. His reaction to the repayments going into your pension will be revealing.

StoatMilk · 10/01/2022 19:00

@Dillydollydingdong

He's taking the piss.
This with bells on
Darley368 · 10/01/2022 19:07

I'm a long time lurker who has just joined MN so I can post.

In your shoes I'd be very careful about your house OP. If you split up you don't want him to have a claim on it. I suggest you quietly take some legal advice about either a cohabitation agreement or, at the very least, if you think he would jib at that, what bills he should contribute to (nothing consistent with ownership).

1224boom · 10/01/2022 19:09

Would you consider civil partnership? My friends have just done this as both were divorced and didn't want marriage again. They did it to show commitment to one another but also to protect themselves from inheritance tax if one of them dies etc. if he died before you would you benefit from his pension in the same way if not married? I have no idea just asking the question as these are things I would be considering.

sassbott · 10/01/2022 19:10

Do you have a cohabiting agreement if he moved into yours?

Also, how blunt and honest a convo have you both had about finances. Because it sounds like he would happily mush everything together and have a ‘pot’. You are understandably more reticent.

Bottom line when both your respective assets are drawn up, are they similar? Or is there vast disparity?

sassbott · 10/01/2022 19:12

And to be clear, I had a convo with my lawyers when I was with my exp and they very strongly advised a cohabiting agreement to protect me against any potential claim in the event of a separation. He refused to even entertain signing it (quelle surprise). He also talked regularly about ‘pooling our assets’. He would have benefited from said pooling. I would not have done

FoxgloveSummers · 10/01/2022 19:16

I'm sorry that you're seeing this side to him OP because it doesn't reflect v well does it. Hopefully it's a momentary blip but this makes me concerned:

When he lost his job (late 2019) he got into financial trouble v quickly
that's quite worrying given that his living expenses are presumably practically nil, you say he has a lot of outgoings - like what?

and started taking money out of the joint account for his own expenses
I presume he did this without discussing it first like a normal person would i.e. he regarded your necessary shared expense account as "our money" even though he knows what things it is to be used for

I stopped him at that point and said if this was going to be a permanent thing, we needed to agree an amount (a limit to what he could take) and a timescale after which it had to stop
Worrying that you had to step in and "stop him" rather than it just being a matter for day to day chat and agreement. He seems... a bit underhand? I have a shared account with someone for a specific reason and if either of us needs to dip into it for life expenses we ring each other up and check it's ok! And we don't live together.

Sounds like if he's not a dick (hopefully not) he's crap with money and has got into the habit of thinking that your money is basically sorta his money too, groundlessly. He needs to correct this vision! Hopefully now he's earning he'll be back on an even keel soon, but no doubt his essential crapness with money will last forever.

You really do need to sit down and come up with the list of shared expenses (e.g. bills, groceries) and work out a fair proportion for you both to pay towards them. If you're feeling generous you can make yours quite high and use it to "subsidise" him to a level where he won't be running short of cash.

To me the important thing is not necessarily that you are funding him (assuming you can easily afford it etc) but that it's out in the open and he's not dipping into your money without a by your leave. That's nasty.

CoffeeBeansGalore · 10/01/2022 19:16

I wouldn't be selling your house to downsize & fund anything either. Your contribution to a joint house would probably end up greater. Again to his benefit.
When his house is sold maybe he should just buy a small place of his own, live in it and pay all his own bills. You can go back to just dating & having the fun parts of a relationship.

FoxgloveSummers · 10/01/2022 19:19

Agree about your house - it does seem as though your role is to improve things financially for you both, his is to improve things financially for him alone. Not cool!

SortMyHouse · 10/01/2022 19:20

Tell him to pay your debt back
Ask him to move out
Don't share expenses or a bank account with this selfish person
You're not going to have any more kids so no point in having a partner move in with you
You will get used as you have been

guardiansofthegalaxychocs · 10/01/2022 19:27

If the agreement has been that you pay into the joint account proportionally to your income then he needs to increase his contributions now that he has a proper job again.
I can see the logic in him wanting to wait to pay back the debt until his house is sold, so I’m sort of with him on that, but the pension contributions need to comes after expenses.

FoxgloveSummers · 10/01/2022 19:30

that's right @guardiansofthegalaxychocs - the OP's boyfriend seems to have forgotten about "expenses" as regards the two of them. He's living in a happy land where his accommodation and bills are being covered and probably food and holidays etc as well. I think maybe he's just forgotten that all these things actually cost money - half of which he should be covering and isn't - and is just absorbed in thinking about his own expenses. OP sounds very nice and probably doesn't want to keep reminding him that she's paying for his LIFE basically.