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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

WWYD - not married but dp wanting to regard finances as combined

85 replies

HooverItUp · 10/01/2022 17:17

have name changed as his family on here!

we have been going out for around 6 years, living together for 4. He moved into my house. We are both early 50s. I am a high earner and have always earned significantly more than him. He used to have a very good job which he lost in 2019 and then his industry was destroyed by Covid. We don't combine our finances but we do have a joint account where we buy things like food, takeaways, trips to the vet for the animals etc. His contribution was to put a small amount of money into that account each month representing the fact that my bills were higher with him living with me. I then put a larger amount in each month and topped it up if the account ran dry.

He has masses of outgoings meaning his disposable income has always been low and he had v little savings. When he lost his job (late 2019) he got into financial trouble v quickly and started taking money out of the joint account for his own expenses. I stopped him at that point and said if this was going to be a permanent thing, we needed to agree an amount (a limit to what he could take) and a timescale after which it had to stop. He agreed to both things. He still pays for the mortgage on a property he owns which is due to be sold this year (he owns it jointly with his ex and there is a court agreement to sell it now their youngest has moved out). His equity in the house easily covers the debt he owes me.

Over the last 2 years, he has had sporadic employment, about half the time he's been able to meet his own costs, the other half of the time he's needed to 'borrow' money from me. He has finally found out this weekend he's got a permanent job he applied for and for the first time in ages, he will have disposable income. I must say at no point did I ever feel he was taking the piss - he worked as hard as he could, looked for a job as hard as he could and took what work he could get.

I'm v pleased for him and obviously for me too but we had a discussion this weekend about how much he would begin to pay into the joint account and whether he would start paying any of the debt back and he said that his plan is to pay all the excess into his pension because he hasn't been able to pay into this for 2 years and it's the most tax efficient way. He is right in terms of the tax efficiency. His argument is that our retirement plan is made up of 3 bits - 1, selling my house and downscaling and the released equity forms part of the money we live off/invest plus the remaining equity in his house, 2 his pension which is far larger than mine already (he had far more generous ex employers than me!) and 3 my pension which is v small in comparison to his.

So he argues that by paying into his pension he is effectively benefitting us both as it is part of the overall plan. He's right but it leaves me very exposed if we break up. He says there is a debt agreement for the amount he owes (there is) and that this is just an efficient use of money. I just feel resentful that after supporting him for 2 years, he doesn't seem to think that contributing to day to day costs is a priority especially as I won't have visibility of what is going into that pension (or not as the case may be).

He feels that there needs to be trust in this relationship or what's the point and he feels hurt that he's suggesting something that he feels will benefit us both (albeit in the future).

WWYD?

OP posts:
KeepingAnOpenMind · 10/01/2022 19:34

Red flags 🚩

GettingItOutThere · 10/01/2022 19:43

so you pay everything day to day, put him up, roof over head. ?

Then he gets a job and looks after himself, puts into HIS pension?

erm no. do not combine finances, he should be tipping in or fucking off.

whats saying in 10 years he has a nice healthy wad in his bank, your funding him and then he clears off and leaves you? yes i am cynical

Puzzledandpissedoff · 10/01/2022 19:44

I do want him to be fair now as I was fair to him over the last few years

Good luck with that OP; he's got used to you propping him up now, and at the first opportunity to pay some of it back he's choosing instead to prioritise himself on some vague promise of "future security" for you

FoxgloveSummers · 10/01/2022 19:51

I don't know if he's definitely a badun, I guess being generous it may be easy to sort of "forget" money if you have a quite rich partner who doesn't kick up a fuss and covers most things. But clearly that's not sustainable!

Chickmad · 10/01/2022 19:55

Surely as he borrowed money from YOU it is your choice what happens to it? Not his to decide to top up his pension with.
I would be very careful in your position. Sounds like he happily makes decisions about your money without mentioning it to you..."borrowing" from the joint account etc.

LunaAndHerMoonDragons · 10/01/2022 20:14

@FFSFFSFFS

Get him to pay you and then you can put the equivalent amount of your salary into your pension - and thereby achieve exactly the same tax savings.

His response to that will tell you everything you need to know….

I hope I’m wrong but I am sorry about how i suspect this will pan out.

This or he pays it into you pension if that's something he could do, that would reduce tax.
Puzzledandpissedoff · 10/01/2022 20:21

Surely as he borrowed money from YOU it is your choice what happens to it? Not his to decide to top up his pension with

You'd think so wouldn't you? And that's why I pointed out that, the very instant he's in a position to return the money, he has other plans for it instead

Apart from the as-yet-unsold house he owns of course, where there's apparently an agreement around the proceeds
How much says that those proceeds will also suddenly be needed for something else ...?

LunaAndHerMoonDragons · 10/01/2022 20:22

@HooverItUp

I will suggest he pays the money into the joint account and it can go into my pension, that's a good idea. It isn't as tax efficient for him or me but his reaction is the important thing.
It may be more tax efficient to do it a different way. He pays into joint account a pre determined fortnightly/monthly debt repayment plus his share of household expenses and you pay into your pension directly from pre tax income if this will reduce your tax bill. He needs to be paying you back. It would be a red flag for me that his first response to earning again wasn't to start paying the loan back.
LunaAndHerMoonDragons · 10/01/2022 20:24

Given his reaction to earning again I wouldn't trust his assertion he'll repay you once the house is sold.

FFSFFSFFS · 10/01/2022 20:29

Can I just reiterate again that it can go into your pension in a way that is just as tax efficient (with the possible exception of a slightly less beneficial national insurance contribution if your employee doesn’t offer salary sacrifice)

And also reiterate that if you do make pension contributions with the amount it should not be the gross pension payments that are treated as his repayments but the amount from your NET salary that is being taken out for the pension contributions

Sunnycloudymorning · 10/01/2022 20:45

He can't afford the pension payments if the only way of doing that is to not fund normal living costs.

ThisIsStartingToBoreMe · 10/01/2022 21:00

Honestly OP it sounds like he targeted you when he started to be of the age that people start retirement planning. He's a cheeky bastard.

BlueLorikeet · 10/01/2022 21:30

Does your employer offer salary sacrifice option OP? If yes, it would be crazy not to use it given your existing pension pot is small and you are 50. Surely you want to retire at 60 with private pension, not wait till 68+ and retire with state pension of £700 per month or something?

If you’re the higher earner you could even work out the amount to contribute to your pension that leaves you with the same take-home paycheque as your other half. Then you can split bills 50/50 and are left with same personal spending money.

IamGusFring · 10/01/2022 21:44

Even your original situation was crap.

His contribution was to put a small amount of money into that account each month representing the fact that my bills were higher with him living with me. I then put a larger amount in each month and topped it up if the account ran dry

Why on earth would that be the case ? He was saving renting so why was it not equal ?

He definitely needs to pay you back plus I would also be reconsidering this bit

1, selling my house and downscaling and the released equity forms part of the money we live off/invest plus the remaining equity in his house

Avoid getting your finances mixed up like this with him. I'm married after divorce and we are not entwined like this .

timeisnotaline · 10/01/2022 22:11

@Bubblesandsqueak1

To be fair I think it should be split half into his pension and half paid back to you for yours it is the fairest most realistic thing to do
Doesn’t this suggestion include the op continuing to pay all their bills?
Skiptheheartsandflowers · 10/01/2022 22:18

It should be an absolute bottom line that now he is back in a permanent job, he immediately starts paying a proportionate amount towards the bills and the cost of living for both of you. Never mind anything else or 'future security'. He can increase your future security by paying his own way right now, so that you can stop subsidising him and his current lifestyle every month.

M0nster3Munster · 11/01/2022 02:36

Now that he has employment, he should be paying towards half of the bills where he lives with you & food, his own transport, his own phone
However, if he is paying a mortgage with his ex, he may not have much spare to pay you rent

Do you really think that he will repay any loaned money to you ?

Suggest that you both pay into your own pensions for tax efficientcy

There is no rush to be discussing possibly selling your property in the future. While he is still entangled in a property with his ex.

Suggest protect your interests first now & in the future

KosherDill · 11/01/2022 02:44

It's bullshit. Don't let him enrich his pension at your expense.

M0nster3Munster · 11/01/2022 02:54

His plan to pay money he owes you into HIS pension is ridiculous

You need to agree an amount to be repaid

He needs to budget for his own pension

SD1978 · 11/01/2022 03:38

He's benefiting himself, and not you. All his plans (for you) hinge on you staying together. He's basically lived with you for stuff all cost. There is a house sale coming up, and both of those has been to his advantage. He has taken money from you to fund him, but will use his wages to continue to fund himself. I would be asking for the contributions to be paid into your pension, since that's what financially makes sense, and yours is less. Can guarantee that won't suit him.

Slayduggee · 11/01/2022 03:56

He should be paying 50% of the household expenses not a ‘token amount’. If he was still living by himself he would be paying 100% of his household expenses!

Then you can use your disposable income to pay into your pension.

ImmediatelyNo · 11/01/2022 04:03

It sounds like he wants more commitment than you do. In these situations when there is that type of imbalance people often go round in circles.

One person senses the other protecting themselves, so they feel the need to protect themselves and it goes back and forth like that.

Honestly I think you need to get on the same page re the future or let one another go. You’re committed to one another or you’re not.

Milomonster · 11/01/2022 04:10

Please seek legal advice. I cannot emphasise this enough.

Namenic · 11/01/2022 04:14

OP -

I think the most efficient way would be for you to pay more into your pension from your own salary (as I think this would be untaxed). He then pays the equivalent amount (or part of the equivalent amount - whatever you agree monthly to reduce his debt to you) into the joint account until he pays off his debt to you. That way the contribution to your pension will not be taxed I think. When he finished paying off his debt to you, you can change the financial arrangement.

Assuming you stay together, it would usually be better (i think - I’m not an expert) for both of you to have more even pension pots as when you get an income from the pension, you would be taxed on the income individually. Also, the tax free lump sum is done individually, so you can max it out by splitting it more evenly between the 2 of you. But do ask more knowledgeable people to check this.

Forensicpsych · 11/01/2022 13:27

Glad you’ve got your head screwed on op!