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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Please help me unpack this thing with my mother.

122 replies

Westmeathtip · 06/01/2022 19:25

She’s in her 70s, widowed and splightky, still working, very fit. Very religious.

Im in my 40s, in final throes of divorce, 3 kids.

My exH was a twat, lazy, gaslighting abusive cruel and a drunk. Not physically violent and held down a good job.

I tried to leave him about 6 years ago and was basically bullied and cajoled into staying; I should have gone then. I’ve called time after some colossal rows, my exH finally left 18 months ago. The relief is wonderful. I have a new squeeze, it’s early days but he makes me happy.

Anyway my mother:
I’ve not been able to put my finger get on what she does that winds me up, until this week when I realised that she simply doesn’t trust me. She doesn’t trust me to get anything right, or do anything properly. She second guesses and undermines my parenting, and I’ve also discovered that she has been in contact with my ex, facilitating calls between him and one of the children. (My ex has been admonished legally for parental alienation and for badmouthing me to the kids, and he has contact with them but it’s carefully managed)

She also doesn’t approve at all of my seeing someone else, to the point of rudeness and has told me to “keep it under wraps” and “just be strong and independent and focus on the divorce.”

Currently she isn’t speaking to me - I had covid all over the hols - she knew this and didn’t even text me - the kids were at their Dads and she doesn’t actually believe I had it, and that I was making it up so that I could spend more time with my BF.

So, given that trust is lacking, on both sides, where do I start? She lives locally and the children are fond of her and I’ve relied on her in emergencies for childcare. I’d rather not cut her off but I also don’t know how to move forward.

Thoughts please?

OP posts:
Original poster
Westmeathtip · 07/01/2022 21:59

Thankyou all of you. I’m feeling weird and jittery and trying to find out how I feel.

OP posts:
Original poster
Westmeathtip · 07/01/2022 22:02

@Yummypumpkin “You also risk being unable to trust fully and being insecure...ie anticipating a change in behaviour or regard.”

This is where I’m at and it’s literally driving me mad. I second guess constantly - have I come on too strong, am I too needy, does he mean it, what does it mean if he isn’t on the phone all the time etc. it’s exhausting and I can’t imagine it’s great for new BF. I’m sensitive to the tiniest slight, which in any other sphere would wash over me.

What do I do? How can I trust myself? How does anyone know what’s real?

OP posts:
Yummypumpkin · 07/01/2022 22:21

OK.

So because your Mum has always questioned your decisions and judgments you (although consciously you feel confident and sure of yourself, more or less) have her voice in your subconscious criticising your views and opinions...literally she has trained you to undermine yourself.

She didn't do this intentionally. She sort of can't help herself.

The obvious solution is psychodynamic therapy (not 'counselling') because this focuses on raising awareness in the conscious mind of the impact of childhood on our subconscious thinking. Then being able to consciously move forward.

If this isn't something you want to try, you need to think about spending more time with people you feel safe with and who validate you. And who you can bounce ideas off. You need to put time everyday into both HEARING and not silencing that subconscious voice and challenging it....it sounds scary and overwhelming but you do need to reprogram yourself.

And avoid those who feed your insecurity, though this is difficult as it wouldn't surprise me if almost everyone made you feel a little insecure.

It isn't hopeless. You have made enormous progress in 24 hours! It is remarkable the connections you make, and the lack.of denial.or self pity. So I have the highest hopes for you.

I also noticed on this thread a couple of people were almost questioning your experience, and you weren't having any of it...a very good sign.

Yummypumpkin · 07/01/2022 22:29

To be clear: the problem isn't with your conscious mind, but with the internalised voice of your mother and you do need to access that.

You could Google evidence for power of the unconscious mind to begin to appreciate how much of our behaviour it controls...your Mum is also being driven by her unconscious.

I am sure her conscious mind thinks she is a good mother, who loves you and wants the best for you.

So you see how important childhood is and how hard to undo...but not impossible!

itsgoodtobehome · 07/01/2022 22:36

Sorry - I don't want to hijack OP's thread, but this has resonated so much with me and my own mother. Could anyone recommend some reading or a website where I could explore this further? Thanks.

Original poster
Westmeathtip · 07/01/2022 22:39

Yes!!! It’s her voice! Without fail. “Doesn’t sound good to me. Up to you, but you mark my words.” SadAngry

OP posts:
Yummypumpkin · 07/01/2022 22:47

@Westmeathtip

Yes!!! It’s her voice! Without fail. “Doesn’t sound good to me. Up to you, but you mark my words.” SadAngry
It's really good you recognise this!!

I do think you'll be able to make good progress.

Right now the relationship with your subconscious is the one to focus on.

(I mean as opposed to the one with your Mum).

Original poster
Westmeathtip · 07/01/2022 22:53

Ok, so I’ll look into psychodynamic therapy. I was/am seeing a life coach who is very intuitive and she said from the start “you need to sort the stuff about your mother.”

It’s like I can’t trust myself because I don’t know what’s my intuition and what’s her talking me out of things.

I’m now googling “power of the unconscious”. Any further reading/exercises wiudl be appreciated!

OP posts:
Yummypumpkin · 07/01/2022 22:55

@itsgoodtobehome I am sure others will have recommendations.

I find this article very intriguing and helpful fir children if narcissists to understand how they have developed in response as a step to moving firward: mawrgorshin.com/2017/07/05/the-identified-patient/

Pegasussnail · 07/01/2022 22:56

I'm the prodigal daughter (also Irish catholic and expected to clean and run errands despite having a career while my brother doesn't do much at all) i.e. nothing

Yummypumpkin · 07/01/2022 23:02

Apologies. I meant to link to this and not the article above.

And there was me thinking I was modern for doing a link!

mawrgorshin.com/2018/09/23/the-psychoanalysis-of-narcissistic-parental-abuse/

AntiHop · 07/01/2022 23:13

@Yummypumpkin I think we need a special section of MN where you help people understand and come to terms with difficult relationships. You are brilliant!

Yummypumpkin · 07/01/2022 23:16

That is lovely @AntiHop though I imagine you'd all get sick of me.

I do really enjoy this place and admire the bravery and self-insight of so many.

Comtesse · 08/01/2022 00:38

Reads like you have been underreacting for some years. That stunt with the ASD diagnosis sounds appalling.

You might want to read about attachment theory - that might help you understand what might be happening with your romantic relationships too. Toxic Parents by Susan Forward is eye opening too. Flowers for you ….

Lottapianos · 08/01/2022 10:03

'The obvious solution is psychodynamic therapy'

Very much agree with this. Therapy was the best thing I ever did as far as freeing myself from my parents and reclaiming my own life. It can be a long and intensely painful process but was worth every second and every penny for me

Lottapianos · 08/01/2022 10:04

And yes, brilliant and very empathetic posts Yummypumpkin. You have clearly had your own battles to fight x

MyFirstHypnosis · 08/01/2022 10:13

Brilliant posts YummyPumpkin.

You deserve some sort of mumsnet award for this thread.

Are you a therapist?

Yummypumpkin · 08/01/2022 10:38

I should make clear I'm not a therapist!

I do know something of this, from various study and having been through therapy but don't want to give a false impression as to the extent of my knowledge/ qualifications!

MyFirstHypnosis · 08/01/2022 10:43

Well your study, intellect and life experiences have clearly combined to make you a brilliant Mumsnetter.

MyFirstHypnosis · 08/01/2022 10:43

In fact have some Flowers

LaBellina · 08/01/2022 10:44

She sounds like a narc.
A lot of very good advice has been given so I don’t add other then it’s her, it’s not you.
YouTube has some very good videos on how to deal with narcs, DoctorRamani is a great source of information.

MintJulia · 08/01/2022 10:49

My DM was a bit like that.

In the end I decided that she needed to see me as incompetent because it was the only way she could deal with the facts that:

  • she'd stayed with a husband she hadn't liked, for 40 years.
  • she'd given up on her career
  • she was lacking in confidence and wouldn't try new things
  • she was too self conscious to exercise so was a bit heavier

I never mentioned any of those things but I think she saw it as a competition, which was quite sad.

I ignored her comments, or occasionally told her not to be so nasty. I'm not sure I would have tolerated her enabling my ex behind my back though. That might have been the final straw for me.

I hope you find a way through.

passmetheginpls · 08/01/2022 11:25

I'm so sorry I'm reading along too and don't mean to derail but could someone explain why psychodynamic therapy and 'not counselling' ? I'm having counselling for similar issues, am I going down a less helpful route here than I could have? Thanks x

Lottapianos · 08/01/2022 12:27

'DoctorRamani is a great source of information.'

Great recommendation. She really knows her stuff and explains it all in a very accessible and supportive way. Lots of vids on YouTube

LaBellina · 08/01/2022 12:32

Yes @Lottapianos I was very pleased when I discovered her videos trough someone else who has a narc parent as well. She explains things very calmly and clearly in a way that makes you see it’s just how some people are, it’s not you and that avoiding them when you van is the best way because nothing you do will make them change their behavior.