Moral dilemma re "woo woo" friend. WWYD?

[Maskless]

"John" is male, platonic pal. We connect strongly on politics, music, food and social issues, but he has this whole other set of beliefs and activities that leave me cold: crystals, spiritualism, spirit guides, astrology, tarot etc. He claims to be able to see into people's futures but in the 10 years I have known him, I have never seen any evidence of this -- he's just the same as anyone else, and has been taken by surprise by things that have happened to him, and me and everyone else.

Because we get on so well otherwise, and I don't want to lose him, I am respectful and don't sneer but I don't believe in it one shred and so he avoids talking about it to me as he has other friends for that kind of discussion and activity.

"Jane" is a friend I've known for 7 years. She's a bit gullible compared with sceptical old me. Now she's found out through a third party that "John", whom she has never met, does "spiritual readings" and has asked me to link her up with him next time she visits me, and go with her to his place to have a "reading". I have now found out that he charges £50 for this plus £10 for a recording of the session to take away. "Jane" isn't quite on the breadline but she's not got that sort of money to squander.

Her tone and manner when asking me to arrange an appointment with him was such that it was clear that she is really excited at the thought that he is absolutely going to tell her her future and, because she believes he can, she thinks it is worth £50 to find out what's in store for her.

I'm in a quandary.

Part of me thinks I should not do anything at all to facilitate John to financially exploit and possibly lie to, trick and mislead Jane. As her friend I should look after her interests, her purse, and protect her from charlatans.

But the other part of me says Jane's a grown up and what she does with her money is none of my business, and it's not my place to interfere.

I thought I could just give her John's number and then not mention it again but she not only wants me to ring him and make the appointment, but she expects me to actually go with her and sit there with her in his house whilst he talks (what I think is) bollocks then relieves her of a week's grocery money.

If he said things and they didn't come true what if she turns to me and blames me for setting her up with a con-man?

If I said "no, I won't come with you, and I won't make the appointment, but here's his number" she would smell a rat and ask me why not and then I'd tell her what I felt, which might lead to us falling out because she does believe in all those things.

We're all in our 60s, if that's relevant.

What would you do?

This is a very sensitive subject op. I am firmly in your camp here. A family member lost her son in tragic circumstances two years ago. She visits a spiritualist and has found great comfort in this. However, her ds2 attended with her on one occasion and was shocked and appalled by the way the spiritualist "read" his mother. He said it was nonsense. But what expectations can there be?

I share his concerns but it has brought some limited peace to his mother. Should that be taken from her until a time she chooses to withdraw from the meetings?

Your friend is old enough to make her own choices but don't become involved in bookings. I would feel uncomfortable being friends with someone who you feel exploits the vulnerable but the issue is that of choice, isn't it?

Wouldn’t want to be friends with someone who charged people money for ‘woo’ bollocks: snake oil.

Would tell Jane that in your opinion John has no special abilities, but give her his number should she still want it.

Thank you for the additional responses, dear Mumsnetters.

I feel as though I am trying to tread carefully because I don't want to lose either of them as friends, offend anyone, be seen as either uncaring OR interfering.

I'm amazed that some people on here find it so easy to make friends, or have so many friends, that they can swiftly and painlessly dump anyone who doesn't fit the mould of a perfect and flawless friend on every count.

It was also nice to see that some MNetters, like me, have friends who are wildly different from themselves, and from each other. It's a sort of compartmentalisation, and each different friend brings out a different side of me.

Thanks again! I have a plan of action, which is to politely but firmly refuse to discuss it, just tell her lightheartedly that I am not interested in that area of life.

@Maskless

Thank you for the additional responses, dear Mumsnetters.

I feel as though I am trying to tread carefully because I don't want to lose either of them as friends, offend anyone, be seen as either uncaring OR interfering.

I'm amazed that some people on here find it so easy to make friends, or have so many friends, that they can swiftly and painlessly dump anyone who doesn't fit the mould of a perfect and flawless friend on every count.

It was also nice to see that some MNetters, like me, have friends who are wildly different from themselves, and from each other. It's a sort of compartmentalisation, and each different friend brings out a different side of me.

Thanks again! I have a plan of action, which is to politely but firmly refuse to discuss it, just tell her lightheartedly that I am not interested in that area of life.

It's not a matter of dumping people because they're' different', more like struggling to respect someone who would prey financially on the vulnerable and gullible, or being impatient with someone who is so credulous she'd hand over £60 she doesn't have to spare to have her future told, especially when you have presumably told her that in the decade you've known 'John', he's never shown any evidence of precognitive abilities?

It’s nothing to do with not fitting the perfect friendship mould. None of my friends are perfect. It’s to do with knowingly taking money from naive and/or vulnerable people for a load of delusional self-promoting rubbish. It’s not nice…even if they are stupid/wishful/desperate enough to believe it.

Ah well, a fool and their money are easily parted. If your friend thinks she is getting a good deal for her 50 quid and she can afford it then leave her be.

It’s hard to compartmentalise something you really disagree with. I guess it’s the old ignoring the worst to enjoy the best. I could do that with mild differences but not huge differences in values/principles.

I guess the flip side is someone could say ‘wow op it’s lucky you have such good compartmentalising skills that you can ignore your friend’s conman side hustle even when he’s conning your own friend.’

Rude, OP. No poster has argued that friends need be ‘perfect and flawless friend on every count’.

Charging people a lot of money for ‘woo’ services is unethical and exploitative: this would be a deal breaker for some, like me. You’re clearly uncomfortable with it, since you’re considering not giving Jane John’s contact details.

There are plenty of other options, eg telling Jane that in your opinion John has no special skills.

Tell her to go about her life as normal. If John is such hot shit at the woo he will know that she is meant to meet him and will be able to forsee what coffee shop she's going to be sitting in next Thursday morning at 11.23am and he'll go and introduce himself.

@Kanaloa

It’s hard to compartmentalise something you really disagree with. I guess it’s the old ignoring the worst to enjoy the best. I could do that with mild differences but not huge differences in values/principles.

I guess the flip side is someone could say ‘wow op it’s lucky you have such good compartmentalising skills that you can ignore your friend’s conman side hustle even when he’s conning your own friend.’

"I could do that with mild differences but not huge differences in values/principles."

I can. My boyfriend is a devout Christian and I am an atheist. We simply respect one another's beliefs and have never once argued about it.

"You can ignore your friend’s conman side hustle"

As I've explained twice on this thread, I had no idea John was charging until yesterday, when Jane told me that Pauline had told her that Pauline's late sister had seen him and he'd charged her.

Hours after finding out I posted this thread, because finding out he charges, and that Jane wants to pay. left me in a moral dilemma.

That's the opposite of "ignoring".

Someone upthread had written something along the lines of "get rid of both of them and find some better friends". At least one other remarked that I should get rid of one of them from my life.

I don't have two hours spare to go and find the exact posts.

I think I'd just say...happy to give you his details mate but I'd prefer not to come along as I can be a bit of a disbeliever / cynical at times and I would want to bring negative vibes...plus it will be more personal if it's just you two without me sat there watching (eye rolling)

I feel that it's an exchange between them and isn't your business to say anything else....if she was going to another reading from a stranger would you discourage her?...It might be really meaningful to her so money well spent in her eyes :)

"I did not call her gullible for believing in a spiritual dimension. Indeed, she and I have never discussed spiritual issues. I call her gullible because I have seen her fall for scams, hard-luck stories, wind-ups by colleagues, believing lying boyfriends, street trader scams, dating scams, etc."

This is exactly the same kind of situation OP. 50 quid a go!

It’s not really your business what your friend chooses to squander her money on. I’d stay out of it and let them crack on.

I would just say that you don't believe in it and you don't want involved - here's Johns number.

OP how do you feel about your friend John now, knowing that he charges people money for this kind of thing?

Anything I said about him she would repeat to him, if she still want to see him.

Then don't say anything you wouldn't say directly. He already knows you don't believe and so don't talk about it as you said in your OP. So say the same to her. If she questions if he's real or if they're all fake etc just say "no idea I just don't believe it it". Leave it at that or keep repeating that until she stops. I can't see why it's so hard to convey that without being nasty about "John" since you don't discuss this side of his life with him because he knows you don't believe in any of it.

Give her the number and let her decide to pursue or not. You can very easily stay out of it without upsetting John or saying something about him you wouldn't want repeated. You're making it harder than it needs to be.

ask john to do her a discount as she is hard up.

Why should she? And why should he? This is his business and if someone wants to use his services it's not his responsibility to change his prices to suit someone else's financial situation. I can't think of any examples of a service I'd take up where I would expect them to reduce the price because I can't afford it or I don't think it's worth the asking price. There's a choice to be made by Jane she can afford to spend the money (or can't but chooses to forgo something else to pay for it) or she doesn't. He doesn't need to reduce the price and the OP does not need to get involved in bargaining for her.

I think you are a really good friend to care about your friend's feelings. Both John and your other friend. While it's true that shielding your perhaps somewhat naive friend isn't your burden to bear, and that she can do or not do as she pleases, remaining neutral and detached from it all is probably the wisest thing you can do.

You can preface your opinions about John into a form of "he's my friend and we share a lot of things in common, however, this is not one of them." If she pushes for more info as you say she is wont to do, this is where you're going to need to establish your boundary and find something to say, and say it on repeat. Perhaps something like, "As I've mentioned, John's beliefs are not the same as mine. Here is his contact info."

Good luck, OP!