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Original poster

Moral dilemma re "woo woo" friend. WWYD?

119 replies

Maskless · 01/01/2022 23:44

"John" is male, platonic pal. We connect strongly on politics, music, food and social issues, but he has this whole other set of beliefs and activities that leave me cold: crystals, spiritualism, spirit guides, astrology, tarot etc. He claims to be able to see into people's futures but in the 10 years I have known him, I have never seen any evidence of this -- he's just the same as anyone else, and has been taken by surprise by things that have happened to him, and me and everyone else.

Because we get on so well otherwise, and I don't want to lose him, I am respectful and don't sneer but I don't believe in it one shred and so he avoids talking about it to me as he has other friends for that kind of discussion and activity.

"Jane" is a friend I've known for 7 years. She's a bit gullible compared with sceptical old me. Now she's found out through a third party that "John", whom she has never met, does "spiritual readings" and has asked me to link her up with him next time she visits me, and go with her to his place to have a "reading". I have now found out that he charges £50 for this plus £10 for a recording of the session to take away. "Jane" isn't quite on the breadline but she's not got that sort of money to squander.

Her tone and manner when asking me to arrange an appointment with him was such that it was clear that she is really excited at the thought that he is absolutely going to tell her her future and, because she believes he can, she thinks it is worth £50 to find out what's in store for her.

I'm in a quandary.

Part of me thinks I should not do anything at all to facilitate John to financially exploit and possibly lie to, trick and mislead Jane. As her friend I should look after her interests, her purse, and protect her from charlatans.

But the other part of me says Jane's a grown up and what she does with her money is none of my business, and it's not my place to interfere.

I thought I could just give her John's number and then not mention it again but she not only wants me to ring him and make the appointment, but she expects me to actually go with her and sit there with her in his house whilst he talks (what I think is) bollocks then relieves her of a week's grocery money.

If he said things and they didn't come true what if she turns to me and blames me for setting her up with a con-man?

If I said "no, I won't come with you, and I won't make the appointment, but here's his number" she would smell a rat and ask me why not and then I'd tell her what I felt, which might lead to us falling out because she does believe in all those things.

We're all in our 60s, if that's relevant.

What would you do?

OP posts:
jewel1968 · 02/01/2022 01:40

I have a friend like John. Makes a shedload of money - not that it matters.

I do wonder if people like your friend Jane uses people like John a little like a therapist. Someone to talk things through rather than literally get told what they should do?

I something envy people like John. They seem so full of energy and passion. I feed boring and dowdy in comparison.

Pinkbonbon · 02/01/2022 05:32

Just tell her you don't believe in all that stuff.
You're not slagging him off by saying that but it might still give her the hint that he is a bullshitter. And either way, it gets you out of going.

Or you could pull the 'it's against my faith to get involved with that sort of thing' line. Ive found that very rarely do people engage you further when you mention believing in God.

Bluetrews25 · 02/01/2022 06:15

Ah I can feel the vibes.
She has had a lot of sadness in her life, but things are going to improve. Happier times are ahead. She will travel over water and a new friend will come into her life. She will never be rich but she will be loved.

There you go. £50 please.

niceupthedanceagain · 02/01/2022 06:47

Why are you embarrassed about John finding out you think he's full of shit? Surely you should stand by your beliefs or even call him out on it to his face if you think what he is doing is deception.

As for Jane, none of your business what she spends her money on

Faevern · 02/01/2022 07:13

Here is his number you crack on I won’t be coming as I don’t believe in the woo woo stuff. John knows this and isn’t offended so no problem if she tells him. It’s up to her how she spends her money. My friend squanders about £50 a month in Costa, her choice.

SarahBellam · 02/01/2022 08:51

Ethically, you should be up front with her. You can say that you don’t believe in fortune telling and think it’s exploitative, and therefore won’t be attending any sessions. However, if she wishes to spend her money as she sees fit then that’s up to her. If she wants to have her fortune told she should do her research and not go to someone just because he’s a friend of yours. It may just be that’s she’s looking to spend some time doing an activity with you so you could suggest going to a football match or the theatre or something instead.

ArblemarzipanTFruitcake · 02/01/2022 08:55

Just be honest with her.

'I don't believe John actually has supernatural powers, but if you want to spend £50 to find out for yourself, here's his number.'

BertieBotts · 02/01/2022 08:58

I think I'd just say something like oh I can't be doing with all that spiritual stuff, I'm an old skeptic, still give her the number but don't agree to go along and if she wants to know why just be blunt and say you don't believe in it.

Georgeskitchen · 02/01/2022 09:04

Why would she blame you if her future was predicted incorrectly? Is she 60 or 16?
Would she blame the lottery vendor if her lottery ticket didn't win?
Your description of her comes across as an excitable teenage girl rather than a 60+ woman!!

Smartiepants79 · 02/01/2022 09:05

I don’t really understand this.
If John is such a good friend then surely he already knows that you don’t believe what he believes. Why does it matter if Jane tells him this.
Give Jane his contact details but be honest and say it’s not something you subscribe to and that you’re really not comfortable going along.
If these 2 people can’t accept that you don’t believe what they do with good grace then they’re not good friends.
How genuine do you believe John to be? Does he truly believe what he’s saying or is it and act to make money?

Suzanne999 · 02/01/2022 09:06

I’d say you can have his number if you want but I don’t like getting involved in this sort of thing, I don’t believe in it.
Then it’s her choice if she has his number, her choice if she calls, her choice if she goes.

LunaAndHerMoonDragons · 02/01/2022 09:08

Do you think he's a charlatan? As in someone who doesn't believe in what they're selling but sells it anyway? Or is he a good person who believes he has a gift and can see glimpses of the future? I could be friends with the second person, but not the first. If you think he's a charlatan I'd be telling her that outright. If he's a good person, I wouldn't judge and would give friend the number and use one of the various, "I don't believe in fortune telling so I won't be facilitating or attending, but here's his number" type comments. If she's seeking a fortune teller she could do a lot worse.

You could also point out that some people prefer not to have a non believer in the room as it can make it impossible to do a reading. I'm going by popular culture here.

Nathlash · 02/01/2022 09:09

Honestly, OP, make friends with less ridiculously dim-witted people.

Velvian · 02/01/2022 09:10

Can you say something vague like you don't like to mix friendship with business, so you're not prepared to get involved with his work?

AngelinaFibres · 02/01/2022 09:12

@massiveblob

Leave them to it
This. I thought you were I your 20s from your first post. You are all in your 60s ShockShock. Tell her you don't believe a word of it ,give her his number and let her get on with it. If she wants you to go with her ... .say no and carry on with your life.
Shedmistress · 02/01/2022 09:13

I'm quite blunt in real life and I'd happily tell her that you have never actualy seen evidence of his abilities, indeed the time that [x] happened he was as stunned as everyone else was. I'd tell her that all fortune tellers are charlatans and it is completely up to her whether she wastes it on nonsense, and that I'd not be part of her wasting it on his nonsense. If she wanted the number I'd make one up.

spotcheck · 02/01/2022 09:17

OP
You ARE being patronising.
Being 'protective' of a full grown women, because you don't feel she is making a good decision is what? if not patronising?

She is 60, and I assume has managed to keep herself alive and afloat all this time.
Maybe she allows herself a budget each month, or she saves up for entertainment, and this month it is John.

Maybe she is feeling vulnerable, but in that case, perhaps use the opportunity to have a good talk, and see if she has any big worries in her life at the moment.

Beautiful3 · 02/01/2022 09:21

Just say that, "I can't promise you if he's any good! He's my mate and I've never asked him about that!" Pass on his number.

Eddielzzard · 02/01/2022 09:23

John knows you don't believe. Jane knowing too won't be a train smash. As long as you refuse to be drawn into a long discussion about it I think you're fine. It is her choice, and nothing you can really do short of telling her it's all garbage.

HaveringWavering · 02/01/2022 09:24

I’m confused why she couldn’t Google his contact details herself or get John’s number from Pauline.

However it sounds like she has had a tough life and has some unresolved grief and problems at the moment in her relationship. Rather than endorse John’s nonsense, could you use it as a springboard to offer sold, practical, real-life support with those issues?
Help her find out how she might trace her adopted child, hear her out about her relationship and offer your perspective, explore gently what she feels she needs from the memory of her late Mum? Show her that non-woo ways are the best ones to deal with these issues?

Whatsdamatta · 02/01/2022 09:26

Maybe, when she rocks up to stay with you, throw into the conversation that it’s not your thing and you don’t believe in it. Then I think your role in what she does is finished. If he fleeces her of her disposable income for the week, quite honestly she’s an adult so it’s her choice.
Keep it light when she returns with news of the reading. If you’re worried it reflects on you if he fills her with a load of shite, don’t - it doesn’t. She can make her own choices. Don’t dismiss her or him (as she’s a bit of a gossip and he is her friend) but just lightly stress it’s not something you believe in. Make sure she’s clear on that for the future when none of it comes true.

Whatsdamatta · 02/01/2022 09:27

*he is your friend

Changelingbutonlyforme · 02/01/2022 09:28

Does John give good advice as a friend? What would he say about the pension and relationship worries Jane has just in a friendly discussion with you? Do you trust him to give good advice trussed up in woo? Or does he follow some kind of method or ritual and parrot back whatever the cards tell him? How would he react to you telling him Jane hasn’t got a lot of money and absolutely can’t afford ongoing readings? Weirdly I think I’d be happier with the situation if he’s more of a benevolent charlatan who will do a one off kind and sensitive reading with sensible advice involving some caution about interpreting it. (A get out clause if not everything he predicts is wrong, some leeway for free will/choosing your own path). If he’s a fanatic who believes he has the power to predict the future and says whatever nonsense the cards/palm randomly bring up I would be very unhappy about the Jane situation and if he’s a charlatan who keeps people coming back for more when they can ill afford it I would be dropping him as a friend quick smart.

Chocaholic9 · 02/01/2022 09:46

It's none of your business. She's not 5 years old. She can decide for herself what her beliefs are and what she wants to spend her money on. You can just let her know that you have no interest in it, personally.

Oh, and for the record, people who believe in a spiritual dimension are not "gullible". They just have different beliefs from you.

Kitkatchunkyplease · 02/01/2022 09:48

If you don't believe in this sort of woo stuff, then surely you don't believe anyone can see the future. If no one can see the future, then it doesn't matter if she sees John or anyone else for that matter. Whereas she does actually believe it, so will be happy to see John. I think this would be different if you thought John was a charlatan and Bob, for example, was the real deal....but you think it's all hokey so just pass on his number and say it's not really your thing.