'Why did you let him abuse you?'

[NaughtyNata]

Said to me by a friend about my ex. Mainly emotional abusive/coercive control. Physical a couple of times. Not minimising but it wasn't constant or everyday. Just to give a little more context.

Left him years ago now but things still not easy. Fwiw I was desperate to get away from him for years but was scared and was scared about the kids and wanted to keep them safe.

So comments like 'why did you let him' or 'I would have done xyz' are quite hurtful tbh. I did the best I could at the time and it took all my nerve to get away. I just don't think people know unless they've been there themselves.

Not looking for advice or anything but can anyone relate, to how bloody frustrating comments like that are?

I'm feeling a bit shit about it and haven't got anyone to discuss with IRL.

It was really insensitive of your friend to ask that question. I think it is an important question for us (society) to keep asking though - in a wider sense. And I don't mean in an accusing, judgemental way of the people affacted. But in a practical 'what can we do to help people to leave / to spot the signs of abuse / to support its victims / to protect them and their children afterwards?'

Because the fact is that many women, and men, stay in abusive situations, for months, years, a lifetime.... because there are barriers to leaving - situational, physcological, practical barriers. Some people give up hope of ever leaving. And in order to leave you need to believe it's possible, and that a better life awaits.

So often people post on here with a belief that they can't get out. Either money or fear of more violence or judgement from friends / family, or a misplaced belief that the children are better off living with both parents. I'm glad that there are people who step in and tell them it is possible. Not to give in. They can get out.

Just not sure what your friend hoped to achieve after the event. Perhaps it was a genuine attempt to understand something she is fortunate enough never to have experienced?

@RoseMartha I had the same issue of my ex using the kids to control and punish me. I had to block him, his close friends and family on everything (emails/texts/calls/social media), move to another town and buy a cheap pay as you go second phone he could text me on for emergencies when he has the children and I refused and still refuse to enter into any kind of conversation with him. He’ll always stay bitter I left him. Maybe you could get a cheap pay as you go phone for texts too?

I think you can view this in two ways, it’s insensitive to ask, but the reality is most outsiders looking in can’t comprehend it and want to understand.

Some friends and family of mine are police, and they say DV is the worst job on the force, they burn thousands and thousands of hours on these abusers and in many cases the woman says, but I love him. One memorable comment was by the end these women are barely human anymore, they have taken it for so very long. It’s so unbelievably sad.

There is part of the human psych for some people that they do take it, they ignore the initial red flags, then the initial abuse, then the continual abuse. It’s something many people simply cannot understand. You did well to get away.

So for me, the question is understandable, it’s what many people want to understand, but the reality is it is indeed insensitive to ask.

I agree with the pp who said it’s important as a society we ask these questions and it’s important anyone who did take it understands how they got into this position and how to avoid it again. Some people go from abuser to abuser.

Ok- maybe I should have been clearer- this was asked to me whilst we were both drinking, and probably arose around another conversation we were having. My friend was quite drunk by this point, more so than me, so the question wasn't from curiosity or actually wanting to understand. In fact now I'm wondering if as the truth often comes out when drinking, whether she thinks I'm 'weak' or whatever.

@Bluntness100 my experience with the police is very different- trying to get them to take the things I was reporting seriously was a nightmare.

I also agree with people needing to understand and society work out what to do to help victims get away from abusers. But I think many of the posts here illustrate clearly the reasons why it isn't simple,

I also don't understand the comment of 'why did you let him abuse you'- for one it's incredibly rude and incorrect- no one 'allows' it to happen but secondly- I left him- what more could I do to 'stop' him? It also feels like all my efforts to get away are being questioned which pisses me off when she isn't aware of how bloody difficult that time was and all the things I had to sort out. It's like whatever I do, it isn't good enough in some peoples eyes. And when they don't understand as well it's frustrating.

I think your answer sums up the issue in asking this question, it illicit a defensive, angry and shamed response, understandably, because the question can indicate both an element of blame and personal responsibility.

The person being asked hears “why didn’t leave after the first red flags became obvious, why stay, why have kids, it’s partly your fault”. When the person asking likely in the majority of cases simply doesn’t understand why the person did stay,they aren’t allocating blame, they simply don’t understand it.

The only person who I think can ask this, is either a therapist, or someone the victim knows so well they know they aren’t allocating blame or trying to shame them.

It’s an incredibly difficult situation.

No- I don't feel shame or any personal responsibility anyway because I don't think I 'let' him do anything? He was the abuser and is responsible. No one should feel shame for being on the receiving end.

I'm annoyed because thinking it through has made me feel likes it has belittled all my efforts and what i had to deal with at the time of the separation. And thinking through my posts on this thread and the many helpful responses has made me realise that. It pissed me off because it ignores everything that I did do.

I actually understand what some posters are saying about asking yourself that question, to try and understand your own vulnerability.

By asking myself that question I was able to reclaim a sense of control that I had totally lost at that time. Able to move on and form positive relationships rather than constantly question and be on guard. It’s a subtle difference, it’s not victim blaming it’s understanding what could I do differently of it happened again.

@ineedsun

I actually understand what some posters are saying about asking yourself that question, to try and understand your own vulnerability.

By asking myself that question I was able to reclaim a sense of control that I had totally lost at that time. Able to move on and form positive relationships rather than constantly question and be on guard. It’s a subtle difference, it’s not victim blaming it’s understanding what could I do differently of it happened again.

I have done that though. I am so cautious these days- overly so but part of that stems from being quite self-sufficient and enjoy the freedom I have being single though. I date casually now- and recently I've come to realise that is all I actually want. I can't spot red flags a mile off, won't put up with any shitty behaviour.

Some of this may because of that damage caused by my ex but I really don't ever want to deal with the same things- living with someone else for example would be very triggering for me. It would feel like a loss of the freedom I have now which feels more important to me than ever. I'm quite happy as I am and feel confident that the same things wouldn't happen again because I don't let men get that close, quite frankly, and that suits me.

That sounds like it’s worked for you which is great, and I think that’s all people we’re suggesting. FWIW I still miss red flags in behaviour and give people the benefit of the doubt where perhaps they don’t deserve it (usually friendships) but am married to a good man (well, good most of the time) who I now feel able to challenge because I realise (at the risk of sounding like a L’Oréal advert) I’m worth it.

@ineedsun I'm glad you've married a good one now. I think it's very brave- being able to trust again! Glad you realise that you are indeed worth it as well.

@thefourgp

An upheaval to another town must have been so hard for you. How are things now?

Ty. I might need to consider He still has involvement with my family which doesn't help. Not that they believe him but because he has wedged himself there and often uses it against me despite them feeling uncomfortable.

I thought my exh would stop being bitter but I think that looks unlikely.

@Shebangshebong
I understand what you are saying. I find it hard not to answer immediately because of years of his wrath if I dont.
But perhaps this and a separate phone is the way forward.

@RoseMartha I definitely suggest having a second phone- it works well for me. I use an old phone which is loaded with £5 credit- I use WhatsApp on there when I have to message so as not to have to pay and make an occasional quick phone call on there so as to keep the number connected, as it were.

It works so well, being able to switch him off 😁

You see this kind of sentiment on MN all the time.

OP: I have a horrible/abusive/lazy partner, here’s what he did

MN: Why did you let him do that?

Total victim blaming. Mysogyny. Everything is womens fault. Sorry for what you experienced OP.

I ask myself that question so I don't think it was deliberately malicious. I have not totally answered it myself but one thing I've done is to be less kind and understanding to others if their actions affect me, I recommend this.

@NaughtyNata

Thank you 💐

I agree that there's no malice in it- it just pisses me off and in a way I'm pissed off with myself for not putting my foot down really and telling her bluntly that she doesn't know what she's on about!

It doesn't work like she seems to think. Either someone doesn't know what is going on- I don't think this was me so much because I knew but I was bloody scared and didn't know what to do for the best.

Thanks for the kind comments.

Yeah but I have lost loads of friends because of their judgement. It is so humiliating.

@coodawoodashooda that's so true- it does feel humiliating to be questioned so insensitively like that actually- and infuriating when you feel like what they're saying is completely inaccurate anyway- what more could I have actually done besides leave him?!

One memorable comment was by the end these women are barely human anymore, they have taken it for so very long. It’s so unbelievably sad.

What lovely friends you have.
V reassuring to hear this is being said by policemen & women.
Not.

And your "its unbelievably sad" doesn't soften it and comes across as quite disingenuous.

I think it was you about whom.another longterm poster said ,"you manage to find a way to blame the woman in every thread you post in".

Seems like your police friends are birds of a feather with you .... they "burn" ie waste their hours on this, and the women only say :buy I love him".

Well they're actually "burning" their hours on almost entirely male violence, why don't they focus their ire and disappointment on the men, our society etc?

[quote NaughtyNata]@coodawoodashooda that's so true- it does feel humiliating to be questioned so insensitively like that actually- and infuriating when you feel like what they're saying is completely inaccurate anyway- what more could I have actually done besides leave him?! [/quote]
I know. I guess people just don't understand how much planning the pigs to do get us under their thumb. It's not like they treat us like shit on day 1. It is so sinister.

As a few promineny DV campaigners have highlighted; why does she stay is the wrong question ... what about, why does he do that?

@HelenGraham2121

As a few promineny DV campaigners have highlighted; why does she stay is the wrong question ... what about, why does he do that?

I stayed because I didn't know that he was doing it.

Yet the woman is usually the only one who could remove the children from that toxic environment. Saying this as someone who has grown up with an abusive father. Honestly, I do resent my mum for it all, inspite everything that’s been said on this thread, even if I dont deny those aspects either.

@Jmommy

Yet the woman is usually the only one who could remove the children from that toxic environment. Saying this as someone who has grown up with an abusive father. Honestly, I do resent my mum for it all, inspite everything that’s been said on this thread, even if I dont deny those aspects either.

I am really interested to hear about your resentment. I worry about how much children will reflect on my contribution to what they are having to cope with. I've tried so hard to prosecute him but the police are not interested.

@coodawoodashooda I resent my mum because she didn’t remove us all from the toxic environment, and because of that I had to put up with the abusive behavior from my father. Me, mum and my sister could have had a home with good atmosphere instead, just the three of us. The way I see it is that she should have taken responsibility for her kids having a healthy environment to grow up in, my father obviously was unable to do that. It sounds like you are already taken actions and are prosecuting him, so your kids likely won’t feel like you just let it happen. For us too, it wasn’t all bad and we had also good family times. I only really realized in my early 20s that I had grown up with an abusive father. I guess it was just my normal as a child. His abuse was unreasonable shouting, silent treatments for days, disrespectful ways of talking to my mum, controlling things like phone usage etc.

And even if I said I only properly realized things as an adult, I do remember at times disliking my father and secretly hoping for divorce already in my childhood.

[quote Jmommy]@coodawoodashooda I resent my mum because she didn’t remove us all from the toxic environment, and because of that I had to put up with the abusive behavior from my father. Me, mum and my sister could have had a home with good atmosphere instead, just the three of us. The way I see it is that she should have taken responsibility for her kids having a healthy environment to grow up in, my father obviously was unable to do that. It sounds like you are already taken actions and are prosecuting him, so your kids likely won’t feel like you just let it happen. For us too, it wasn’t all bad and we had also good family times. I only really realized in my early 20s that I had grown up with an abusive father. I guess it was just my normal as a child. His abuse was unreasonable shouting, silent treatments for days, disrespectful ways of talking to my mum, controlling things like phone usage etc.[/quote]
I am so sorry that you had to experience that. I think the advice I have been given from so called experts is to say that mummy and daddy both made mistakes. People just don't believe that the fault really is only on one side. I can't prosecute him. I've asked the police. They are not interested. I have hardly any proof. He is so good at his bad behaviour.