'Why did you let him abuse you?'

[NaughtyNata]

Said to me by a friend about my ex. Mainly emotional abusive/coercive control. Physical a couple of times. Not minimising but it wasn't constant or everyday. Just to give a little more context.

Left him years ago now but things still not easy. Fwiw I was desperate to get away from him for years but was scared and was scared about the kids and wanted to keep them safe.

So comments like 'why did you let him' or 'I would have done xyz' are quite hurtful tbh. I did the best I could at the time and it took all my nerve to get away. I just don't think people know unless they've been there themselves.

Not looking for advice or anything but can anyone relate, to how bloody frustrating comments like that are?

I'm feeling a bit shit about it and haven't got anyone to discuss with IRL.

[quote Shebangshebong]@CactusLemonSpice

IME, it also becomes exhausting to sit and listen to your friend crying down the end of the phone because he's hit her for the umpteenth time and she won't call the police, won't let you call the police, won't grab the kids and let you pick her up and stay at yours but then the next day everything is okay because he's bought flowers and is cooking tea and said sorry. It is emotionally exhausting (and no I'm not disregarding how the victim feels). But sometimes you can listen and confirm it's abuse and signpost to support till you're blue in the face, but still those children are trapped because Mum won't leave.[/quote]
I think we're talking about different things... as I understood it I thought OP was talking about comments made by friends after OP had already left abusive ex.

As someone who had an abusive childhood and an abusive relationship, and also went on to work with DV victims, I do think it is important that we look at our boundaries and expectations etc about relationships to make sure we are alert to red flags and replaying patterns from our own childhoods. I think that's an important part of the healing process. But that's something that can be done in therapy etc, and with proper support.

Friends saying 'why didn't you leave him/I would have packed my bags and ran' isn't actually helpful at all. It is quite ignorant.

Having been in a narcissist abusive religion do hold myself responsible for not getting away sooner... it was ignorance of narcissism, once I realised and researched it I could see it to get out of the mental trap.

But until you have experienced lovebombing etc nothing can prepare you for it. It was an insane experience.

@Shebangshebong Abusers are highly, highly skilful at breaking their victims’ spirits, willpower, logic, reasoning and psychological well-being. The fear they instill in their victims is intensely real and all encompassing. The fear of staying is less than the fear of leaving.

It’s fine if you can’t grasp what’s at play in this type of situation, but you should recognise it’s incredibly complex, and certainly in no way boils down to a simplistic question such as ‘why didn’t you leave?’

I beat myself up about this all the time. Not ending the relationship sooner. I hate myself for it. However, I had no family to turn to (or I thought I didn’t) and everyone told me what a great bloke he was. Every time I tried to end the relationship in an adult way, he involved his family and our eldest child. Emotional blackmail.
If I’d known then what I know now, it would have spurred me on to end the relationship. But I didn’t know. I believed it was all my fault and that it was my job to keep everyone happy.

I think we're talking about different things... as I understood it I thought OP was talking about comments made by friends after OP had already left abusive ex.

This is very true actually- and I think also what has annoyed me- because I did end the relationship! What more could I actually do? So when people say 'why did you let him do xyz' or 'I would have done xyz' it is really fucking annoying tbh because 1) No one 'lets' someone abuse them and it smacks of victim blaming, and also not understanding the complexities and 2) Unless someone has been through it they have no idea what they will do.

It's all well and good saying 'I'd have fought back' and the likes, but it's not even acknowledging the basic truth that 99 times out of 100, men are far physically stronger. It obviously has implications.

It's the emotional abuse which ime prevents you fighting back.

Not experienced physical abuse myself but emotional abuse can be very powerful.

Really though, if somebody had said to you that you'd stay and endure that relationship for that long, before it happened, wouldn't you have said 'Don't be ridiculous!'

For me, the descent into such confusion about myself is the amazing thing about abuse. How could another person get me into such a state where I didn't leave for so long? And so, in a way, I can see how it's incomprehensible to the inexperienced eye.

@JorisBohnson2

It's the emotional abuse which ime prevents you fighting back.

Not experienced physical abuse myself but emotional abuse can be very powerful.

And the coercive control- it's horrible. 'If you leave I will say/do xyz', just as one example.

It never ceases to amaze me;the amount of victim shaming/blaming that is poured upon victims of abusive relationships by ignorant people.

Your friend is being ignorant.

Domestic abuse goes on in every level of society and it's not easy to leave such relationships even when the resources are available to do; it's often difficult emotionally/psychologically/physically/financially/culturally etc

My FIL is an abusive fucker.

I love my MIL she is a truly lovely woman who has had an incredibly hard life but one of her ways of dealing with the abusive situation she was in was to bring my very young child now DH in to sleep on her bedroom floor when FIL was out drinking and would potentially come home and physically assault her. So that meant my DH witnessed a lot of that abuse.

She is still with FIL now. It is an absolute tragedy, she is in complete denial about the abuse and even still this causes all sorts of issues for DH and his siblings. Only 6 months ago FIL pulled a machete on DH because DH confronted him for locking SIL into a bedroom. They have finally after all of these years gotten the police involved but realistically the support they can give when she won’t leave is minimal.

So in my opinion it is a pertinent question to get to the bottom of why women stay but it absolutely should not be done from a position of judgement.

OP I think you are an absolute legend for getting out. You have saved your children from what my DH and siblings are still experiencing. It is a true shit show for them. I have had a lot of shit in my own family and I know how complex these situations are and how judgemental others can be but I think it is heroic for these women who get out.

Unless you’ve been through it, it’s unlikely you really understand. My ex’s family were horrified at me saying he was abusive because he didn’t regularly beat me black and blue. He would have very little involvement with our children and I remember a male friend saying to me (after my ex had refused to go to a firework show with me and the kids when we were together) ‘why did you let him away with that? My wife wouldn’t let me away with that.’. He’s a grown man. WTF was I meant to do? Just because my friend’s a family man who respects his wife and kids, doesn’t mean my ex does and it annoyed me that my friend saw that as my failure when it was my ex’s.

I train public sector staff on these issues. One way (amongst a range of others!) I have found to explain it is as follows:

Why does she stay / why didn't she leave / why did she 'allow' this are all deeply offensive questions even if you don't mean to offend. This is because:

1. The person whose behaviour is the problem isn't the victim. Maybe ask why is he abusing her and why does no-one stop him?
2. These questions demonstrate a misunderstanding of domestic abuse as something which is episodic. It isn't. It is a constant. There isn't a 'space between' where the victim can calmly reflect and assess.
3. The questions assume that the worst thing in the victim's life is the abuse. It might not be. Bigger risks might include insecure immigration status. The risk of permanent poverty. Losing her children. Him fulfilling his threat to burn down her Mum's house etc etc.
4. In my experience, people who ask these questions want to be reassured that it is possible to spot an abuser at 50 paces. Dream on. You are as likely to be fooled by an abuser as the woman you are judging.

If someone says this to you again, you say -

'Why are you asking such an insensitive, victim-blaming question?'

Also, you don't owe anyone an answer to that. Not even the response I recommended.

The 'I'd have fought back' is such a horrible, ignorant, smug and presumptuous thing to say to someone.

I'm sorry that you have been subjected to such insensitivity.

Thanks @EarthSight.

Yes that got me too. Because she doesn't actually know what went on anyway! Whether I did/didn't fight back. As though it's even that simple.

It's been helpful to start this thread because I don't have anyone i can talk to about it IRL and it's very lonely at times.

The questions assume that the worst thing in the victim's life is the abuse. It might not be. Bigger risks might include insecure immigration status. The risk of permanent poverty. Losing her children. Him fulfilling his threat to burn down her Mum's house etc etc

That is a really crucial point.

OP @NaughtyNata
I agree those comments are not helpful.

I dont know if the following makes sense to you but here goes.

I mistakingly thought when I was divorced it would be better, the abuse gone. That I would be okay.

But he tries to control via the kids and often when he calls me kids related it starts off about them but very quickly becomes about him and how everyone he knows can not understand why I divorced him because he feels he did not do anything wrong and he says everyone agrees with him so it must be me. Tells me I dont think enough about him when I have to take the dc to appointments or when we had to isolate re covid rules.

I have noticed since being divorced that during the marriage he had conditioned me to behave in a certain way, to not argue and to obey him.

I realise now he will never change but I need to change and put in boundaries to be the person I was before I got married. Because I am there somewhere.

To not second guess myself all the time to not be really hard on myself and analyse myself after the abusive text messages or phone calls and wonder if I tried harder was better it would be better. It will never be better. This is how he is and how he wants me to respond. I have to mentally not let that agonising unnecessary guilt trap me as it seems to time and time again.

And this is what people who have not walked in our shoes dont understand.

I have friends say but you have been divorced ages now, you should be able to say no, you shouldn't let it get to you. But because the abuse worked for so long it is hard for us to break those chains they still use to control or try to control us with. It just not that simple or easy but of course I want to be free.

Like you I agonised for years about divorcing him. Those who say if I was your position I would just leave have never been in that place where the courage to leave is often insurmountable.

@RoseMartha oh god yes, I can relate 100% to what you have posted.

When you have children, it never ends, does it. Ever. And people also think that the hard part of leaving is effectively done and can't understand why there are still issues to deal with years down the line.

All of the proclamations of how other people would deal with it when they have no idea gets really irritating and wearing to say the least.

@

@NaughtyNata
Yes exactly that.

Sorry posted too soon.

@RoseMartha so don't accept phone calls? Tell him text only. You can put those boundaries in place

People are ignorant and have a false sense that it could never happen to them, it happens to other people who aren't rich, assertive, from a broken home, had abusive parents.
A huge reason people don't leave is a family court system which believes children should have unsupervised access with abusers.
The threats, I'll hurt myself and say you did it. I'll tell social services you abuse me and the children. I'll make out you're suicidal and a risk to the children.
It's their word against yours and if they are prepared to do anything to stop you losing like hurting themselves or spiking your drink how can you counter that?
Where do you go with children and no money? I know families sent 400 miles away to the nearest refuge with space with no support, to a shoddy 1 bed bedsit, no clothes, no toys, no school, no friends, no family. How long could you cope with that until you started questioning how bad the abuse really was?

Op, you know what you overcome and well done for getting away, don't let the ignorance of a few make you feel bad, people have no idea what they would do until they live it.

[quote Didimum]@Shebangshebong Abusers are highly, highly skilful at breaking their victims’ spirits, willpower, logic, reasoning and psychological well-being. The fear they instill in their victims is intensely real and all encompassing. The fear of staying is less than the fear of leaving.

It’s fine if you can’t grasp what’s at play in this type of situation, but you should recognise it’s incredibly complex, and certainly in no way boils down to a simplistic question such as ‘why didn’t you leave?’[/quote]
I read that the psychology of abused partners (usually women) is almost identical to that of prisoners of war.

It is a psychological destruction/warping.

Losing her children.

I've noticed on here that "you're mad/unstable/on antidepressants" etc and I'll get the kids is Abuser 101.