30 year marriage on the rocks

[Idonthearawordtheyresaying]

I can't believe I'm writing this. All I did was take a photo with DHs phone and go to whatsapp it to myself. There above me in the chat was a woman I had asked him to stop communicating with. I challenged him and got excuses. My favourite being 'she was messaging me, I was just replying'. I have been uncomfortable with their friendship for years, then my gut instinct kicked in last year that more was going on. He was her support through a tough mental health period in her life. I'm struggling with menopause, fatigue and mental health. He never asks me how I am, he has watched me slowly disappear into myself and gave me nothing. I feel like shit. I honestly don't know what to do next. He is denying it but I just know. I don't think it's a sexual affair tho I am now questioning his very long cycle rides. He offered to show me his laptop (emails) but never offered me his phone to look at texts and fear of what I might see stopped me from asking. I saw her whatsapp messages and what is obvious about them is that they are parts of conversations. He tried to tell me she was just sharing random information when I challenged him last year. This time he has told me he has found my menopause difficult when we talked around our marriage and he gave me a list of my faults - all health related. He pretty much shut me down with 'you know I find it difficult to talk'.
I'm working mainly on gut instinct here and I'm not even sure what I want to hear from you guys. I don't know what to do. Except cry and occasionally be physically sick. I trusted him 100%, convincing myself I was paranoid. Now I go over things I just accepted and feel like I've been lied to.

I think you know what these replies will say. It seems as though your options are marriage counselling or separation and as he's lied to you and probably continues to hide stuff from you, he might not be on board for counselling. You need to get your ducks in a row and think about what you need rather than what you want

@Lacedwithgrace when I reread my post, yes. I know what I'm going to be told. The idea of starting again is so overwhelming I can't even go there atm. The idea of telling my family - it's just too big. I spoke with my GP to get extra help but that's as far as I have been able to go.

It might be a friendship or an emotional affair or something else. At this stage you don't know. If your gut says he is cheating or thinking about it you are probably right. You can close your eyes or you can get your financial ducks in a row (payslips, info on savings, pension info, bank account details, get a separate account if you only have joint) so that if he cuts and runs you have the information you need to divorce.

There are a lot of grey divorces around. It is tough but there is light on the other side.

I am sorry OP but you already know what the truth is

Sorry OP. Do you want to stay with him?

@LostenFrance I do want to stay with him but I know I can't trust him again. He broke me and I don't think I will get past it.

My wife cheated and I stayed that was 12 years ago similar sort of thing 28 years married at the time I still don't trust her like I did and never will.

@mrmr1 I am sorry that happened to you.

OP - for starters I think you need to take care of your health. Struggling with menopause is terrible, and it affects all parts of your life. You can alleviate a lot of your symptoms and that will help you face whatever life throws at you. Fatigue, emotional and MH affects of menopause are common - and so many women suffer unnecessarily. Please do speak to your doctor - as so many women have irrational fear of hormonal treatments. A doctor can give you objective information on benefits/risks so you can make an informed decision.

Many men do struggle with their partners’ menopause. It’s not the same as occasional phone call / email of a friend struggling with MH. Living with someone who is suddenly different - unwell, tired, irritable, etc - can be difficult. Especially when they can’t do anything to change how we feel. And even more so if the woman doesn’t want to get medicine that can make her feel better.

Now - back to this woman. I think you need to decide what you want to happen.
If you don’t want to separate, then you need to face it, and see the messages. Or it will forever torture you. Your imagination would make it far worse than whatever it is.
Once you know what you are dealing with - then you can re-access whether you stay.
And what needs to happen in your relationship.
If you are staying - I do think couple’s counselling would really help you two rebuild communication. I think neither of you actually understands what the other feels and struggles with.

[quote Idonthearawordtheyresaying]@LostenFrance I do want to stay with him but I know I can't trust him again. He broke me and I don't think I will get past it.[/quote]
Why do you want to stay with him ?

So sorry OP, I can get why you don’t want to leave him, 30 years is a long time. I have been married a long time too and you don’t just throw that away. Take all the time to think everything through and decide how you feel it’s best to go forward. You don’t need to make a quick decision. I hope everything works out well for you.

My divorce came through yesterday on my 20 yr marriage. I get that the idea of ending a long relationship is a really really hard thing to contemplate.

Ex had lots of emotional affairs over years. I had no evidence of actual sex, but I suspected it had happened. We had counselling because, like you, I didn't want to throw all those years away. As it was my trust in him had gone and while he'd lived away, he decided that I made him and his life miserable. So he told me he was divorcing me.

Which was the most freeing thing ever. Now that I'm out the other side, I recognise how hard I struggled to try to trust again. And how he blamed me for it, rather than point the finger back on what he'd done.

My advice for you is seek marriage counselling as a priority. Talk it all through with a third party in the room. See where that journey takes you.

And remember that you don't need to make any quick decisions right now. Get advice and then take each step at a time.

All the best.

@IamGusFring 30 years is a long time. I thought it was forever. I also thought he would never hurt me.
@MMmomDD I am on hrt, have been for a while. I have done my best to get back on track. I think that's part of the reason I'm suddenly aware of whats going on. My husbands relationship with this other woman has been more than occasional messages, they have worked closely together. Before hrt, I dismissed my feelings as meno madness - he's been a great husband, emotionally unavailable but I worked round that as best I could until I had to concentrate on myself. The fact he has been emotionally available for this woman has destroyed me. Especially through a time when I really needed him. Your final paragraph is spot on, thank you.

@Jumpking @Roselilly36
Thank you.

Yes 30 years is a long time. But there aren't any guarantees in life.

How would he react if you told him you wanted to end the marriage?

Have you just said to him, you're not emotionally available to me your wife, but are available emotionally to her?

But my advice to you, direct, yes he might have fucked up or checked out.

So he goes on long cycle rides, why don't you go to the gym during that time. Be as selfish as him.

Don't cook dinner, don't do his admin if you do.

Don't take the cat to the vet it's his turn
Or whatever it is, it's now his turn.

Be defiant, it's my turn to exercise, have free time, not be a fucking married sap, you clearly aren't.

So whatever happens you are a healing woman not a broken one.

What was the gist of the messages you saw?

I agree with just taking care of yourself now and he can look after himself

@2022beesknees I honestly don't know how he would react. He wouldn't believe me, want me to stay I think. He's lying so that he won't lose me, I could see the panic.
@frozendaisy I did say that to him but because he's denying everything he's not actually responded other than to say 'you know my childhood was emotionless'. I do feel he has checked out, I think he can't manage me not being strong. He actually takes more than his turn running the house these days cause I already did the defiant bit years ago!!! I'm normally quite a straight talking, no nonsense person but this has floored me.

@RantyAunty I only saw whatsapp. The messages were very familiar - part conversations. One was when he was away she sent a message beginning 'l dreamt of you last night'. She knew when he was going to be out of phone signal so used whatsapp instead. What I did see was enough to know he lied about messaging her. I think that if I didn't know him so well, the messages could be seen as innocent. If they hadn't been hidden and denied.

@Idonthearawordtheyresaying
If you are ok hrt and still having severe symptoms - your doctor may need to tweak the dosage. Also - if you are on progesterone /estrogen - ask about adding a small dose of testosterone. Some women need that in the mix as well.

Coming back to that woman. I do think there is a whole world of difference between giving ‘emotional support’ to someone one doesn’t live with. Vs someone you share your life with. With other people - it’s all just verbal. They don’t need to change their behaviour, or do anything special. It’s mostly just words. And for many people saying words of ‘support’ take no emotional effort.
The sort of support he has not been giving you is him living his every day life differently. Being extra caring, helpful, etc.

So I won’t overestimate him being different with her.
I think in your head it means that he is carrying some deep feelings for her, that he doesn’t for you. But I doubt that.

But as I said - do have a look for yourself and don’t just torture yourself

@MMmomDD thank you. Very wise words and possibly exactly what I needed to hear.

I was really scared when I found my DH of 21 years was in emotional affair with friend who got a divorce. I felt physically sick with upset and worry. I did not tell him I knew straight away. I went to a solicitor in secret and discussed my options. Then after about 8 weeks the emotional affair turned sexual. I found out he took OW to expensive French restaurant he only took me to on my birthday or wedding anniversary. He kissed her at the table. My friend was there with her DH. That was final straw for me. I gathered up wedding certified, photocopied all pension documents while he was at work. I took to solicitor then went to stay with my sister for a week whilst he got letter, in er hols. I switched my phone off. I went back and asked him to leave. He tried to argue but we had a joint business which he wanted and I told him if he left without fuss I would let him buy me out of business for reasonable price but if he refused to leave house then I would refuse to let him buy me out and business would go on to open market. He huffed and puffed and eventually he left. Judge awarded me 65 percent of house, as had 17 year old and 13 year old still at home. He bought me put of business and I got 1/3 of his pension to make up for mine being smaller as I took time out when children small. I used money from bid to buy his share of house. Then I sold up and moved to newer nearby house as too many memories. I have never been sorry. Kids took some time before they would visit their Dad. 15 years later he has rebuilt relationship with younger son but older son only visits him about once a year. I remarried and very happy. You can make a new life for yourself, even after a long marriage. Incidentally I kept most of our joint friends even his next friend. He drifted away from his old friends as he made no effort to keep them.

In sickness and in health eh, op.

I should imagine your imagination is running riot. Could it be the time to just ask him what exactly is between them, friendship or more.

He probably won't tell you the truth but you may see his reaction.

Would he stop seeing her, or working with her ?

What you have seen "I dreamt of you last night" is heady stuff, enough for you to assume an emotional affair, would he accept that is what it is.

It's so difficult with a long marriage, it takes time to unravel information and feelings whether you stay together or not.

One thing is for sure, he has hurt you, when you needed him, he was emotionally present for someone else, that needs to stop, it's up to him to do that willingly.

I can tell you he's fucked up, similar situation to mine, all I can say is after a number of years his friendship ended but so did his marriage to me.
Now he has no one, feels awfully sorry for himself about destroying 35 years of support and love and knows there is no way of repairing or turning back time. I think he honestly thought I'd forgive anything, so sure was he of my love for him but he hadn't banked on my hate for him for what he did..... A test too great.

Nobody wins in these situations, family, friends, colleagues it's very difficult showing them how much they stand to loose, but he's on a path to destruction and the company they keep don't care either.

You have some difficult choices to make, choices that no one after so long should ever have to make, I hope he makes the right choices too.

Take care

Don't stay because you're afraid of the alternative. I was married at 22, separated at 53, ten years later I have a very happy life. Your husband is certainly leaning towards cheating - all that " support" he is giving her must make your blood boil when he doesn't bother with supporting you. And frankly he is lying to you - you deserve better than the crumbs he is tossing your way.

I'd suggest that you pull up your big girl pants, and start by seeing a lawyer. Get your finances sorted and look at housing options. Under NO circumstances should you consider staying under the same roof . If you do that you'll never be able to move on.

Good luck - I know it's scary but there is a life out there for you.