DP getting worse and worse

[Whyyyyyyyohhhhhwhyyyyyy]

Hi so I have a DP we've been on and off for years now, we have 1 DC together and I have a DC from a previous relationship.

DP suffers bad mental health, he mostly feels low/sad, he gets angry over small things and then starts shouting and belittling and in the past has called me names on a regular basis and I have no doubt it will happen again, the only reason we were on and off is because any argument he would pack his stuff and go.
Anyway back to my main point, he's getting worse, he is speaking delusionally, he's a conspiracy theorist (nothing overly wrong with that) but he now believes certain people are AI (Artifical intelligence) who are in his life to suck all his energy, he believes his parents are AI and he has even suggested I might be one too because I don't understand him, I don't listen to him (I do but he doesn't see it apparently), to him every person on this planet who are negative are AI (something I imagine he's watched on bitchute website), he's incredibly paranoid that if he gets therapy they will use his medical records against him at a later date (I've told him they don't and that they aren't allowed to do that, he says I'm too trusting of them (them being the mental health professionals and the doctors/nurses in all medical professions)
He believes he's got truama from his upbringing but refuses to talk to his parents about it (or a therapist) he refuses medication as well.
He was suicidal last night and wouldn't allow me to call an ambulance or the police to do a welfare check saying if I did he would hate me forever and because our DC is with him and his parents for a few days SS would of been contacted which he said would then ruin his life even more and he'd actually do what he was saying he wanted to do.
Eventually he calmed down enough to go to sleep but kept saying he was leaving in the morning (running away) I've explained that running away doesn't solve anything etc and that he really needs to get help but he point blank refuses and as tempting as it is to send the therapy forms off in his name behind his back I know I can't do that. His parents don't really seem to care, or maybe they do but since he won't get help they've given up trying I don't know 😕

He's acting really unstable at the moment, he does have a weed and alcohol problem, in which he smokes weed and drinks alcohol every evening and it is becoming an issue (more so the alcohol)

He himself is becoming more and more delusioned/paranoid and depressed and anxious as the days go by, he flits from wanting to be a dad to wanting his old life back and speaks at times like he almost regrets our child together, because we can't do things because we have kids. The funny thing is, he does whatever he wants anyway and I'm the one looking after the kids. Our relationship is grossly unequal in every single way, but that's a whole other thread.

My question is how the frick do I get him to accept the help he desperately needs when he's so paranoid and delusional about the very people trained to help?

I'm in the throws of compassion fatigue if I'm honest.

Take your DCs and run. Call the police and crisis team and tell them everything he's said and what he's been doing.

If you do not 'ruin his life', you and your DC will become statistics, or the other outcome is social services will remove the dc from both of you.

Where is your motherly/parenting instinct to protect your dc, OP???

@me4real

I don't think they'd involve SS, at least not at this stage. He hasn't expressed thoughts of harm to the children (or anyone except himself?)

The children have @Whyyyyyyyohhhhhwhyyyyyy to care for them.

They will see how he responds to medication (if they manage to get him to take stuff.)

Just keep calling him if he comes out with any of this stuff OP.

I think SS would only get involved if he expressed harm to the DC. Not everyone with psychosis/MH issues has SS involvement. It's not like they lack a primary carer.

This isn't the case, you don't have to express a desire to harm your children in order to be a risk to your children. My friend had her children placed into emergency foster care because she was a suicide risk. Never in a million years would she ever harm her children but being alone in the house with a parent who is suicidal puts children at risk of harm. No he isn't the primary carer but having contact with a parent who is paranoid and delusional puts children at risk of harm even if the parent is not directly targetting them, especially if the delusions extend to the children (such as believing they aren't real people but AIs who are out to get him). With respect to the OP she needs support to safeguard her children right now as it's obvious that she isn't being objective about the situation. She is being easily manipulated by this man, she is being coerced and guilted into sending her children into an unsafe environment, she is focusing more on trying to fix things herself than recognising the limits of her ability, and her perspective is clearly distorted by the experience of having lost her eldest child's father. She can safeguard her children by ensuring they have no further contact with her partner until he has received treatment, but if she wants the children to keep seeing him then she should involve social services herself so that there is someone looking out for the children who isn't so emotionally invested that they can't see the wood for the trees.

Hello all,
I've recieved a message off his DM and he stayed at his mates she messaged me this morning but DP told me in early hours where he was.

I do agree with you all that he is severely mentally ill and he cannot see it and I believe its the illness making him unable to see it, whatever it is has well and truly took ahold of him. He self sabotages everything good in his life, he's realising some childhood truamas which is pushing him further into the delusions etc,
He's increasingly paranoid of medical professionals (more so since the pandemic started) and believes 100% that his medical records will be used against him and I've explained that they can't do that. It goes against GDPR etc, I've been through therapy myself many times ( I even have a mental illness but I fought it and came out the other side)

I do worry about my DC and of course I want to protect them from all negative things. I think it's going to have to be if he wants to see DC he will have to come to my place, I've realised I can't actually do anything to force him to get the help he needs, and other than call the relevant emergency services there's very little I can do after that.

I'm abit annoyed about the lie of staying in the car last night when he wasn't actually doing that especially following the chat of he needs to do this and be away from everyone and everything for a few days/week and just reconnect himself with nature etc etc but he will do whatever he wants, he always has done and always will do.

His paranoia does reach to our child together as he believes our child is always ill, (DC isn't always ill but has been poorly for at least a month and antibiotics didn't really help so back to GP tomorrow) but he actually took him to the hospital (he did need to go) when he had his weekend with him and told them he had been poorly for over a YEAR! So you can imagine the looks he got about that, DC hasn't been poorly for a year at all, he's had on and off colds through the autumn/winter period and the time he went to hospital one of said colds had turned into a chest infection which needed antibiotics. He firmly believes he's right and everyone else is blind to the truth even down to our DC health, I don't know what he thinks is wrong with DC but he swears he is always always always ill when he really isn't. Granted out of both DC he is the sickier of the pair but he's certainly not always ill

The weed has made him paranoid. There's nothing you can do until he joins NA and AA and gets himself sober.

Leaving him to fail might be the most helpful thing you can do. He needs to realise HIMSELF that he needs help. You can't make him realise that. All you can do is stop him realising it, by cushioning the blows. I don't think it helps.

My friend had her children placed into emergency foster care because she was a suicide risk

@ByGrabtharsHammerWhatASavings Yes if she was the primary carer/single parent but OP's husband isn't the only one in charge of their children.

@Whyyyyyyyohhhhhwhyyyyyy Move out/don't let him back in and then inform police etc might be a good idea actually OP, as then they might do something about it/it would help safeguard your DC. But you would need objective evidence of what he's been doing/saying.

believes 100% that his medical records will be used against him and I've explained that they can't do that. It goes against GDPR etc

To be fair, if they think someone is a risk then they would, and it can be an impediment in a few jobs, if it can be said to impair his ability/safety to do those jobs (not the case with most depression/anxiety etc.) If you were to go to family court or something it could be used as part of a case that he was not able to look after the children (but don't tell him that.) In fact, it would help you if he got help as if he behaved sufficiently oddly in front of a doctor etc you would have proof of what he's like.

I think it's going to have to be if he wants to see DC he will have to come to my place

You still can't predict how he's going to behave then, especially if he's not getting what he wants. (I'm sure he wants to be living with you some of the time, just run off etc when he feels like it.)

I do think doing everything through official channels is worth doing- don't allow him to see the kids. As although he hasn't expressed intent to harm them, his behaviour is erratic.

other than call the relevant emergency services

Seriously, do this OP.

The weed has made him paranoid

This is a good point from @AlbertBridge . It certainly won't have helped and will have exacerbated any existing issues.

The weed is fuelling his paranoia. He's not mentally unwell; he's just a knob with a weed problem with absolutely no interest in being a decent human being. You are enabling his self indulgent behaviour by believing this hogwash. Jesus. Wake up OP.

me4real I didn't say the situations were identical, I said that specifically saying you plan to hurt your dc is not the bar for having social services intervention. It doesn't matter if he is the primary carer or not, all that matters is whether he represents a plausible risk to their safety. If he does then they are not safe with him whether he sees them 2 days a month or 24/7. He doesn't become less of a risk during his unsupervised contact time just because it's infrequent. Not everyone with delusions will be a risk to their children but someone who genuinely believes that some people aren't real, that they are robots who want to hurt him, does have the potential to be dangerous. Someone who has paranoia which prevents him making appropriate assessments of his child's health does have the potential to be dangerous. Whether it's hurting the children to "protect" himself from the AI, hurting the children to "protect" them from the AI, giving an inappropriate dose of medicine to the child because he doesn't trust doctors and "knows" that he is sick, extending the delusion to a belief that the OP is making the children sick thus making her a target - these are all completely plausible ways that his delusion might manifest. It's not certain that they will, but it's entirely consistent with his current state and the OP has been very clear that his delusions are escalating. Would you role those dice with your children's safety? I sure wouldn't. He isn't safe to have unsupervised contact with the children. I'm not even sure that contact supervised by the OP is safe since it sounds like he may well be a threat to her as well.

I didn't say the situations were identical, I said that specifically saying you plan to hurt your dc is not the bar for having social services intervention

@ByGrabtharsHammerWhatASavings I didn't say that it was the bar for intervention. If he were the only/primary carer it would be (assuming he acted oddly enough when authorities arrived.) I said they wouldn't tend to intervene because they have another parent who is taking care of them.

And also if it's an initial intervention they will see how how he responds to treatment before they do anything like that.

It'd be different if OP made him petition the courts for access to the DC etc (which I think she should really- though she'd need evidence of what he's like by the time it got to court, and professional backup.)

Statistically speaking, most people experiencing psychosis do not commit violent acts. It’s a myth that this is the case, and a very stigmatising one that prevents many from getting help. Of course it sadly does happen, but is actually rare compared to how it’s portrayed. Unusual beliefs can sound scary to others, but a person experiencing them is often confused and distressed and is more at risk of harming themselves than others, in most cases.

However, that does not mean there won’t be mental and emotional harm to your DC, even in supervised visitation. Think about how frightening and destabilising it would be for a child to be told they are ill when they’re not, or to be exposed to a parent telling them that their family are computers/robots, or a parent making suicide threats. A person experiencing psychosis/paranoia, whatever the cause, whether weed or not, shouldn’t have any responsibility for caring for kids, supervised or otherwise, until they are stabilised. And if the weed is what’s making this worse, until they’re no longer doing the thing that’s making it worse.

Do the right thing OP. No contact until he gets help and is stable again and off the weed, if indeed it’s cannabis induced psychosis he’s experiencing. It sounds like he’s just too unwell to be around the kids at this time.

What are his parents doing about his illness?

Do they see it?

When will you wake up and walk away ?
He’s not your problem and you need to protect both of your children from this.

Hi OP,
All your posts are still about him - at length. What he feels / thinks / says / does / might do, and on and on.

Just STOP thinking about him (not saying it is easy). Stop seeing him, so that you can eventually stop thinking about him. Block him. Don't let him in your house. Cut him out of your life.

You are co-dependant and are terrified of being alone without a relationship. You are damaging your children. It is like you are addicted to him. See yourself as an addict - you have to STOP poisoning yourself - he is the poison.

You really, really need to be totally free of him, for 8 to 10 months as an absolute minimum, probably a lot longer. Then maybe you could see if the grandparents want to meet for a short while in a neutral place like a cafe or park.

Follow the advice given here about collecting evidence - you may need it to have legal and professional back up, to be able to get free of him and your addiction to him.

@Whyyyyyyyohhhhhwhyyyyyy

Hello all, I've recieved a message off his DM and he stayed at his mates she messaged me this morning but DP told me in early hours where he was.

I do agree with you all that he is severely mentally ill and he cannot see it and I believe its the illness making him unable to see it, whatever it is has well and truly took ahold of him. He self sabotages everything good in his life, he's realising some childhood truamas which is pushing him further into the delusions etc,
He's increasingly paranoid of medical professionals (more so since the pandemic started) and believes 100% that his medical records will be used against him and I've explained that they can't do that. It goes against GDPR etc, I've been through therapy myself many times ( I even have a mental illness but I fought it and came out the other side)

I do worry about my DC and of course I want to protect them from all negative things. I think it's going to have to be if he wants to see DC he will have to come to my place, I've realised I can't actually do anything to force him to get the help he needs, and other than call the relevant emergency services there's very little I can do after that.

I'm abit annoyed about the lie of staying in the car last night when he wasn't actually doing that especially following the chat of he needs to do this and be away from everyone and everything for a few days/week and just reconnect himself with nature etc etc but he will do whatever he wants, he always has done and always will do.

His paranoia does reach to our child together as he believes our child is always ill, (DC isn't always ill but has been poorly for at least a month and antibiotics didn't really help so back to GP tomorrow) but he actually took him to the hospital (he did need to go) when he had his weekend with him and told them he had been poorly for over a YEAR! So you can imagine the looks he got about that, DC hasn't been poorly for a year at all, he's had on and off colds through the autumn/winter period and the time he went to hospital one of said colds had turned into a chest infection which needed antibiotics. He firmly believes he's right and everyone else is blind to the truth even down to our DC health, I don't know what he thinks is wrong with DC but he swears he is always always always ill when he really isn't. Granted out of both DC he is the sickier of the pair but he's certainly not always ill

Good that you’re starting to see there’s a level of manipulation here… I’m a bit concerned that you’re willing for him to use your house as a base for seeing his child though - I appreciate the other posts about the statistics not supporting people with psychosis not necessarily being violent to others, but I’d be unwilling to take that risk until things improve with his mental health. Also, while you work around him to accommodate his needs, he’s less likely to access help.

I think you’re going to have to draw a line in the sand here to ensure DC is protected - not just physically, but also not exposed to his broken thought patterns, which can be extremely frightening and scarring.

Is there a particular reason you’re avoiding taking a harsher stance, OP?

@me4real

I didn't say the situations were identical, I said that specifically saying you plan to hurt your dc is not the bar for having social services intervention

@ByGrabtharsHammerWhatASavings I didn't say that it was the bar for intervention. If he were the only/primary carer it would be (assuming he acted oddly enough when authorities arrived.) I said they wouldn't tend to intervene because they have another parent who is taking care of them.

And also if it's an initial intervention they will see how how he responds to treatment before they do anything like that.

It'd be different if OP made him petition the courts for access to the DC etc (which I think she should really- though she'd need evidence of what he's like by the time it got to court, and professional backup.)

OK maybe I misunderstood your original post which sounded like you thought ss wouldn't consider him to be a risk unless he was the primary parent or had made specific threats. My point was simply that that wasn't true, ss will absolutely get involved if they think a non resident parent is a risk to the dc even if he hasn't made specific threats against them.

Also a violent attack isn't the only risk he poses, he has already taken his child for unnecessary medical treatment and given the doctors an inaccurate history whilst doing so. That kind of behaviour alone is enough for him to inadvertently cause harm to the children. That wasn't a mistake, it was a direct result of his delusions.

That last point was to the OP btw

Sorry, just reread and seen that the child did actual need hospital, but my point about the inaccurate history still stands.

Nothing worse than drugs and alcohol to fuel paranoia. As you should have realised with the car situation, he is manipulating you. He is over-stating things to make you feel afraid for him, sorry for him and to run around trying to save him.

I was married to a man exactly like this. The day I found out he'd been cheating I walked out. Half way to a safe place a police car stopped and asked if I was redbonnet. Apparently he'd jumped out of our bedroom window and next door phoned the police. He was unhurt. I told the police I didn't want to know. They removed him from the house and I kept walking. I never looked back. 40 years later and it's still one of the best decisions I've made. And I've only seen him once in all that time.

You need to do this too. Walk away, don't look back.

I've told him that he needs help if he wants to still see DC and you can imagine how that went down.

I don't live with him, its just me and my DC at my home.
I can function perfectly fine without a relationship.

Why I'm stalling for a harsher stance is fear basically, I don't want my child to not have a father, I don't want to be that person who stops contact but I also want him to get him the help he desperately needs so he can be the dad our child deserves.

You need to decide what scares you more - being 'that person' you've outlined in your last post, or being 'that person' who exposes your children to an unwell and potentially dangerous drug user who has paranoid beliefs.

Or being 'that person' who let her kids visit their drug using, unwell and paranoid father who then refused to hand them back, making you 'that person' who had to call the police and either tell the whole story (in which case you'd need to explain why you sent them to an unhealthy and inappropriate environment) or don't tell them the full story, in which case they'll tell you that as he also has parental rights you would need to take him to court to return them as he has as much right as you to access in principle.

I know that all sounds harsh but I feel like you need a reality check from someone objective. Your children are NOT safe with this man. Contact with him is not safe for them. He is ILL. He is in the middle of a breakdown / psychotic break / ongoing other severe mental health issues / drug exacerbated paranoia... it could be any number of things he ends up being diagnosed with and treated for if he gets help. He's not going to seek help himself so your best course of action is to report this to the police / ambulance service / his mental health team / GP and until he is safe (which may be a long time) keep your children safe, which means they can't have contact with him.

Stop worrying about what people will think of you, focus only on your kids.

Do not leave your child with him. He is too ill to care for a child. You would be neglecting your child if you left them in his care whilst knowing he was suicidal / delusional

@youvegottenminuteslynn

You need to decide what scares you more - being 'that person' you've outlined in your last post, or being 'that person' who exposes your children to an unwell and potentially dangerous drug user who has paranoid beliefs.

Or being 'that person' who let her kids visit their drug using, unwell and paranoid father who then refused to hand them back, making you 'that person' who had to call the police and either tell the whole story (in which case you'd need to explain why you sent them to an unhealthy and inappropriate environment) or don't tell them the full story, in which case they'll tell you that as he also has parental rights you would need to take him to court to return them as he has as much right as you to access in principle.

I know that all sounds harsh but I feel like you need a reality check from someone objective. Your children are NOT safe with this man. Contact with him is not safe for them. He is ILL. He is in the middle of a breakdown / psychotic break / ongoing other severe mental health issues / drug exacerbated paranoia... it could be any number of things he ends up being diagnosed with and treated for if he gets help. He's not going to seek help himself so your best course of action is to report this to the police / ambulance service / his mental health team / GP and until he is safe (which may be a long time) keep your children safe, which means they can't have contact with him.

Stop worrying about what people will think of you, focus only on your kids.

100% this - you really need to take this on board @Whyyyyyyyohhhhhwhyyyyyy

Have been through something similar with bipolar ex and I wish I’d acted much sooner… my children are older now but definitely still feel the effects of being exposed to him when he was unstable.

This can’t be about withholding children to make him ‘see’ that he needs help - its about protecting your children from being damaged. I think you might need some counselling to clariify how severe a situation this is and to feel stronger in your convictions. Please reach out to someone.

Right now, you need to be “that person who stops contact” to keep your children safe from a parent who is currently in an unfit state to act as a parent to them.

DC is there and he won't bring him back til later and I don't drive

Does this mean that he drove your DC back to you, presumably at least high and possibly drunk too?

OP this is so far beyond a situation where you can do anything to encourage him to seek help himself.

Partly because he's seriously ill and won't accept he needs help.

But also partly because your trauma bond to him is making you act in a way that is not adequately safeguarding your children.

You've written about this man a few times, about his alcoholism and him saying you're only useful for sex etc. But you still refer to him as your partner even after all this.

You've also shared how your older son, who has already lost his own dad to suicide, is under various assessments due to his behaviour and that you were nearing the end of your tether with him.

What I'm trying to say really is that you need to absolutely, completely disengage from your younger son's dad. Report him to mental health services / GP / police (especially if he's driving high and or drunk) / emergency services. Then stop. Just stop.

Let the professionals focus on him while you focus on your two children, who have both had a chaotic and upsetting time due to each of their dad's behaviours. As unfair as it is, you need to be their rock, their place of safety, their calm in the storm, as best you can. And you cannot possibly do that while still trying to support / help your younger child's dad. Or while you still consider yourself to be in a relationship with him.

It's time to let him go and focus on your kids completely.

Get out of this duration. You r save anyone else if you're not strong yourself. Focus on you and your dc. Your p's mh issues are not a free pass to be an abusive bastard.

Detach, and things, get legal advice about the dc seeing him when he's like this, ring police to do a welfare check whenever he says he's going to harm himself K f.

But you can't fix him.

If he stopped the booze and weed, he'd be a lot less paranoid 🙄

@Whyyyyyyyohhhhhwhyyyyyy

I've told him that he needs help if he wants to still see DC and you can imagine how that went down.

I don't live with him, its just me and my DC at my home.
I can function perfectly fine without a relationship.

Why I'm stalling for a harsher stance is fear basically, I don't want my child to not have a father, I don't want to be that person who stops contact but I also want him to get him the help he desperately needs so he can be the dad our child deserves.

But don't you see that can't happen until you force the issue by stopping contact? You are inadvertently prolonging the inevitable.