Did I do the right thing? And WTF do I do now? I am so scared :(

[AnneSally2]

At my parents for xmas along with sister & bro in law and their two (young adult) children. We all live within a few mins walk of one another. Plan was to eat dinner there then walk over to my Sister and bro in laws closby to do presents and have a few drinks/play games etc.

As dinner is being cleared away, my Dad starts getting irritable and angry and having a go at my Mum and me

As we're getting ready to leave, my dog takes her bone and starts eating it on the carpet and she's hiding. Sister and others have left and BIL is just leaving.

I go to get her but she's tangled around a chair and my Dad starts shouting really loudly at me 'Just get hold of the fucking dog' and I said I'm trying and then I decided to go and get her lead to put on her ( I realise this all sounds stupid and over nothing, which it is) so I go to get her lead but It's a gap between table and wall and Dad's standing there and as I approach I say '' stop shouting' and 'please stop shouting' and he says 'no I won't!'

I go up to get past him and ask please get out of my way and he shouts 'I'll come through you in a minute!' I said again please let me pass' and he says 'What you gonna do?!' still shouting. I didn't flinch ( I would have in the past, get past him get dog lead and leave.

Shortly after I got home my Mum rings, everyone has gone and she needs a hand carrying things over and why have I gone. I said I am sorry but I dont want to be in same room as him, but I will come and help her.
So I return and help her carry things to sister and BILs. She says people will wonder where I am and I say 'Well he can tell them can't he'.
Then I go home again.

I've been home maybe 40 mins and Dad knocks at door and says 'Please come over. You can't just upset their christmas...' I interject with 'You can't just make threats'

'I didn't make threats'
'Yes you did, you said you'd come through me'

(Shouting angrily again now)
'You can't just go around telling lies...' I dont know what else he said because I closed the door.

Backstory is, he has been this way my whole life. I grew up terrified of men and have had some awful relationships since before coming out as gay in my late twenties. He scares me so much even now but I just don't want to accept men (including him) squaring up to me, threatening me, trying to scare me, blocking my path.

I heard him after this saying 'You lying little bitch' and 'That's it, I don't have a daughter, we're DONE'

It's hard to convey in text. He's such a LOUD person, he's a large man, he's physically and mentally abused me as a child and continues in adulthood although he hasn't hit me since I was about 15.

I'm so scared. My family probably all hate me now. I dont know what they're saying.
If Dad had remained calm and not raised his voice at me again I'd have gone back over. He can't control his anger and I dont want to be okay with it :(

What shall I do? :( I am still shaking.

I went nc with my father decades ago and fwiw I managed to maintain good relationships with my siblings who all maintained various levels of contact over the years. It rarely came up as a topic but when it did I just reiterated my own position (protecting my mental health, not accepting being treated badly, everybody experiences their parents differently etc.) without overtly slagging off their father or judging them for continuing their relationship with him. It worked well, they all respected my position. Sounds like your sister may be on board with this, so you'll feel less isolated.

But do be wary of do gooders trying to instigate a reconciliation. You'll need to stand your ground.

It sounds like your sister is a good person to be around today. I hope you both have a lovely time.

Great news that you're seeing your sister

AnneSally2 I hope you had a lovely time with your sister?

I did thank you and spoke to my Mum too.

I'll write a proper update very shortly, just having to do some work related emails at the moment-huge thank you to everyone who's supported me on this thread, I really think I needed it.

Excellent news.

You’ve been incredibly brave and, while it might not mean much from a stranger, I’m really proud of you.

You did the right thing, OP. You’ve shown your family that they don’t have to put up with being intimidated and bullied.

Now you’re experiencing the fear of punishment that you’ve been conditioned to expect. Just try to soothe that feeling. It’s learned behaviour and it will pass. It’s courageous to be afraid and still protect yourself. Being afraid is part of it, but I think you’ll find the fear gets less every time you hold your ground (speaking from personal experience).

Oh I missed the sister update. Have a lovely time!

Hi everyone - update...

So my Sister confirmed that when my Dad returned to hers he had said I was lying by saying he threatened me.

I said I didn't think 'I'll come through you in a minute' was ambiguous, it clearly was a threat? And my Sister disagreed and said that was my perception, to some it may not be a threat.

I don't know-most on this thread seem to agree. I said to her 'if you heard someone threatening someone like that...' (as about to ask her what she'd do) and again she said 'Well I wouldn't see it as a threat but I may say 'Don't speak to X like that'.

Anyway to me, saying you're going to do something untoward to someone, is threatening them.

I said okay, aside from that, even if he didn't say that, he was still being aggressive and awful and blocking my path and none of that is acceptable, threat or no threat. She agreed he needs to learn to control his temper.

I said the only thing that really worried me was that he'd take it out on Mum, all that anger had to go somewhere. She said she'd be worried too but Mum's fine, so it doesn't seem he has.

I was just so glad to hear from her, and that her and her family are still okay with me after what happened. My Mum came over too but I didn't want to speak to her about it then, as my niece and nephew had their partners there yesterday and they'd come downstairs.

I left when my Mum left and talked to her about it, told her how worried I was about her and she said I needn't have, she told him straight away that she wasn't taking sides, and she also said that when he went back there after being at mine he said 'She just slammed the door in my face' (I guess perhaps it could have appeared that I slammed it, I actually didn't but I did close and lock it very quickly to prevent him from coming in and to shut him straight out after he began shouting) so that's fair to say.

Mum then said that he'd told her as he left for mine that he was going to go and get me and he was very calm and she was pleased, and that she thought he'd come 'in peace' I said well he did at first, but it seemed he was allowed to tell me what I had done wrong when he said something like 'You can't just leave them all at xmas' or similar, I forget exactly what he said but something such as that, but he became very angry when I said what he couldn't do, when I said 'you can't just go around making threats'.

I said about what he had said 'I'll come through you in a minute' and that he had denied threatening me despite having said that and my Mum agreed, it was a threat.

I told her I had said before that when he gets like this, I will walk every single time. At the moment he thinks he will get away with speaking to me like that without consequence and I will just carry on as normal, and in fairness, I have done for the first 30 odd years but that's changed now, I wont accept men blocking my path, being aggressive, raising their voice and that includes him. Why didn't he just bloody let me get past.

She also said it was her fault the dog was where she was as she'd 'shooed' her out of her way when she was eating her bone elsewhere, and my Dad, already angry, had heard this, seen red, snatched the bone off her, shouting, and thrown it, hence my dog cowering under the table-I didn't see or hear this, it happened in the dining room and I was in the kitchen and I must have been distracted at that moment, and that my Dad had also said to her 'Dog's ruined my £££ X K carpet!'.(She clarified she hadn't).

I feel the need to clarify, my dog was invited, it wasn't to anyone's detriment or annoyance that she was there,and I'd given her her bone just moments before as we were leaving her there when we went to my Sister's and it would have kept her occupied.

I also said when he shouted 'You can't just go around telling lies' to me', if instead, he had have instead calmly said 'I didn't mean it as a threat' or 'I'm sorry, I didn't mean to say that' or whatever, I'd have 100% come back with him, it isn't as if I was happy to be not involved.

But I don't do aggression or raised voices. I had not raised my voice at any point when any of it happened.

He apparently was as white as a sheet when he got back. I guess shocked at my reaction?

Sorry for rambling on.
And thank you again everyone.

I am just glad people aren't angry with me. Hope you all had a fabulous xmas!

@SportsMother

OP, all that is great but it’s a post-mortem and checking your justifications sit happily with others.

You don’t need their approval, and looking for it gives the message that you’re not really sure, or are open to be persuaded about your Dad.

You need a few mantras “ Dad is an abuser, and I dont choose to spend time with abusers.”
“No, I was on the wrong end of his temper for years, he can fuck off.”
“You should not try to defend the indefensible. He abused us as children, and he’s still abusing mother.”

And 'now I know he's had a go at my dog, too'.

Fucking knob.

He was white with rage.

Stick to your guns. He tries to control you all. You don't need that.

Yep I agree with others that the issue here is that he can’t control you anymore and you have stand up to him instead of pacifying him like all the rest if the family is doing.

He is going to put that the test again unfortunately.

So I suspect you need a plan of action and be clear (for yourself) about your boundaries and how you are going to react when he tries to ignore them.

OP, I know this has been a stressful and unpleasant situation for you, but perhaps you could see it as a new beginning, and actually something really positive?

You have stood up for yourself to a nasty bully, when everyone around you is just cruising along, appeasing him whenever he chooses to throw his anger around.

You have shown everyone - and yourself - that you will no longer put up with his aggression. Be proud of yourself and don't second-guess yourself about whether what he said was really a threat - you know it was!

Don't look back - look forward to a new year free from his bullying!

SportsMother Yes, you're right. I am definitely going to try to keep those mantras in mind. I already followed them by doing this, I guess

Neverdropyourmooncup (Great name!) I know :( I had wondered why I couldn't actually see her bone when I was trying to get her to come out-no wonder she was so scared, even if she had permenantly marked the carpet, it wasn't her fault was it!Talk about abusing the weakest 'person' there :(
juniper I've never heard of someone going white with rage before!

lostforideas yes I suspect you're right :( and I will.

zorbathehoarder Yes, and it has been a long time coming. I have told family members yesterday that I am just not accepting it now. I don't have to appease him just because I always have done-it doesn't mean that can't change.

He is worse with me than anyone else-he has a temper with my Mum, and with people in general life, but I get the brunt nowadays or I get his worst moments. I am his only child. If that were my sisters dog, for instance, he wouldn't have dreamed of speaking to her like that & I suspect my BIL would deck him if he did

I spoke to my partner as well who said she wished she were there when this happened because she wouldn't have been able to not do/say anything and I said he 100% would not have behaved this way in front of her, he just wouldn't have dared, I am almost certain of that.

@AnneSally2

I feel I shouldn't have done this for the reason I should protect my Mum. She's mid 70s and I'm worried how he is going to be with her.

But she's stayed with him all these years.

When did she protect you?

Nanny0gg

True. He's been like this with me since I was a toddler, very intimidating, bullying tactics, throwing his weight around. Hes always had a vile temper. She did try-but then he'd be awful to her and accuse her of taking my side and making things worse, making me like her more than him etc etc-It's a long and complicated scenario. I am not making things easy for her by not accepting it any longer but I am nearly 40 years old now-It's gone on too long hence why I did this (and then had a wobble afterwards).

You need to understand that he is in the wrong and others, including your sister, minimising his awful behaviour, is just their way of trying to smooth things over. Least said, soonest me ended, as my dad told me re my mum’s shot behaviour. Stand up to him, bullies will cave once they realise you won’t tolerate their shit, but keep yourself safe. Does he do this when others are present?

@Cherrysoup

You need to understand that he is in the wrong and others, including your sister, minimising his awful behaviour, is just their way of trying to smooth things over. Least said, soonest me ended, as my dad told me re my mum’s shot behaviour. Stand up to him, bullies will cave once they realise you won’t tolerate their shit, but keep yourself safe. Does he do this when others are present?

I'm trying to. I know what you mean. Looking back, he's done it in front of friends when I was a child but if I'm thinking the last ten years or so l, he's done it in front of only family. He once did it in front of my ex when he didn't realise she was there (irrelevant to go into detail but where he was she was just concealed from his view where she was standing).

It did give me a bit of a realisation did that, because my ex was a definite 'rough and ready' type. She had a criminal past and knew all sorts of dodgy people and was no stranger to fights and various other horrible goings-on.

And the way he spoke to me and the things he said really shocked her. She actually went and had a word with him afterwards.

I do agree about bullies. I wish I'd have done it sooner in some ways. He was probably close to being violent on Xmas day really, if I'd have done anything even slightly more 'wrong' when I think about it.

@AnneSally2. I think you need to direct your disappointment, anger and criticism away from yourself and on the person who is to blame for spoliing your and your family's Christmas, which is so clearly and obviously your dad.

He has spolit your Christmas. He should be apologising to you and everyone else for his disgusting behaviour.

You did the only thing you could do, under the circumstances.

[quote DoubleTweenQueen]@AnneSally2. I think you need to direct your disappointment, anger and criticism away from yourself and on the person who is to blame for spoliing your and your family's Christmas, which is so clearly and obviously your dad.

He has spolit your Christmas. He should be apologising to you and everyone else for his disgusting behaviour.

You did the only thing you could do, under the circumstances.[/quote]
Thank you

One thing I've always said is that my Dad doesn't see me as a real person. He won't ever consider that it wasn't nice for me, what happened. That doesn't matter. In similar circumstances before he has been affronted if anyone has dared suggest that I might be upset or my* feelings might be hurt. It just isn't important at all especially in comparison to him.

Sorry you’re dealing with this OP. It sounds as though you are doing well at asserting your boundaries

My only piece of advice would be not to let any conversations with your sister, mum etc get bogged down in this issue of whether he made a threat or not. It’s quite an easy way for him to derail the situation by getting others to agree it wasn’t a threat. I’d suggest you phrase it more like ‘due to your long past history, when you do X I react like Y’ - for example ‘when you raise your voice and stand over me like that, I have a panic reaction in which my heart races and I feel under threat’. This helps to link his behaviour and your reaction back to his long track record of bullying you and violence, and keeps the focus on how you felt - helping your mum, sister etc to understand what you were experiencing.

I hope that helps a little. As is so often the case, winning the communication war is a bully’s first line of defence. Don’t give him that chance!

Thank you, yes you're right and while at my sisters I did say 'Threat or not he shouldn't behave like that'.

I appreciate your advice however he believes he did nothing wrong in the past and it was all my fault (and slightly my Mum's fault) and would probably just tell me I was being pathetic. In the past wehn we've approached the issue I have told him I was terrified of him as a child and he thinks it's ridiculous, or cites how much worse his father was with him, which may be true but doesn't make his actions acceptable.

It it comes up again with my Mum and/or sister (I only usually really see my sister when I see my mum too anyway) I will mention these things though for definite. Thank you for responding :)