overcome with rage, advice please

[polkadotty2]

DH and I just had a row (over something very trivial but the way he behaved triggered me to see red).

He was sitting on the sofa, playing on his phone with his laptop switched on and TV in the background, probably waiting o have breakfast together. (He knows that I hate how much time he spends on screens).

I come downstairs, asked what he'd like for breakfast, he was too engrossed in the game and didn't give me a straight answer. I do a quick tidy up/clean and put together a quick breakfast - made a smoothie for each of us, yoghurt etc and laid out bread/bagels for him if wanted. He decides he wants eggs and rather than thanking me for what I did make him decides to tell me I could have made eggs etc in this time as he was work to do.

I get frustrated at not being appreciated (have work of my own to do this AM), tell him if hes got time to watch TV and play games in the morning hes got time to make his own eggs and go upstairs to the study with my smoothie.

All very minor, I clearly needed some space to get some work done on my laptop and come down when I'm ready. All he needed to do was respect that and apologise for not being grateful.

Instead he starts to physically drag me away from my laptop which really irritates me, I have to shout to get him to stop using his strength. This suffocation makes me want my space/an apology even more. Insists on making me eggs despite me telling him I really don't want that, guilt trips me that if I don't eat them itll have to go in the bin. (I really hate waste so get more worked up and tell him to please not make me any, if he really wants to help, I could do with a glass of water).

I wish I had stayed calm but recognise I am shouting at this point, its his defensive nature that's getting my back up. Anything I say is met with "no, i didnt say/do that" etc.

I try and do some work but of course he's made the eggs I really didn't want (the smell makes me feel more queasy, I take it back down to the kitchen, he tells me his conscious is clear).

What a silly trivial argument but its ruined our Sunday. Its the using his strength against me to force me away from my desk, not listening to what I have to say, not apologising for being ungrateful or for sitting in front of all those screens and taking me for granted expecting things done for him then not listening, trying to force me to eat something I really didn't fancy and threatening me it would go in the bin otherwise... all of these things got me frustrated and made me shout.

What on earth am I supposed to do? I am sat at my desk, upset, unable to be productive. I know my behaviour was probably worse than his (he didn't shout) but the reason I felt so angry and frustrated is because of the way he chose to behave in the first place. What a mess. I don't find it difficult to apologise but I know he will only see what I have done wrong and not himself and not change his ways.
Sorry this was so long (and so petty).

I would have shouted at him too.

I reckon so would Mother Theresa.

You are not in the wrong here.

Op, you have to know that he shouldn't have physically tried go move you. That's a boundary he crossed and can't happen again.

You feel invalidated because he doesn't listen to you and then forces his way - like you would with a toddler having a tantrem. He remains calm because he doesn't see you as an equal. He knows he can dominate the situation.

Others have mentioned power and control and it certainly feels like this. He believes he is 'right' and you need to be managed as he knows you better than yourself.

Your shouting and anger is probadly frustration. Learn to not react when he is not listening to you. State what you want and then follow through with what you want.

If he man handles you - repeat loudly and firmly "take your hands off me" if he refuses then you are in your right to say "I will call the police unless you remove your hands".

It might sound dramatic but he needs to know that no adult/husband can physically force another person.

I know you can't see the relationship through our negative eyes but I suspect your husband will escalate his control unless he learns to treat you as an equal.

Unfortunately having a baby is usually the time when the control ramps up because that is when a woman is more vulnerable.

You could try to engage him in healthier communication but if he believes he is right, he won't change.

Thanks everyone.

Unsurprisingly, he hasn't approached me. (There goes our Sunday...). I need to nip out shortly for a short commitment at 3pm, a part of town where there's no parking, I mentioned this yesterday he had without hesitation agreed to drive me but I am sure he has forgotten now so I will have to leave extra early and look for parking a fair while away and walk (so will be leaving straight after this post).

Already dreading coming back. On the one hand want to make progress in getting out this mess we've found ourselves in but on the other hand don't actually want to speak to him.

I can’t see why you feel bad for shouting!! I’d more than shout if dh thought dragging me away from my laptop and making me food I didn’t want would ever fix a disagreement! You would still be in the right if you took the eggs and poured them down his shirt frankly.

I don’t know what to suggest you do since he has no concept of reasonable. While you think about it message him since breakfast seems challenging to communicate about let’s each just make our own from now on until we get through this. I won’t have to try and mind read what you want and you won’t have to insist on cooking me food I’ve said really clearly that I don’t want. Control what you can op- it’s not him that’s for sure so make your own breakfast and leave him to his while you think of how to handle this more fundamentally. Pretty hard to picture him as a decent guy tbh.

I know my behaviour was probably worse than his (he didn't shout)

Irrelevant. When someone is manhandling you and trying to force you away from where you want to be, and ignoring your requests to stop, you are 100% entitled to shout. His behaviour was really weird, it's not surprising if you become frustrated and desperate.

Please don't apologise to him for this. You were entitled not to want eggs, you were entitled to want to stay at your work, you were entitled to object to attempts to use force to drag you away, and you were definitely entitled to shout. Make it clear to him that he's got to behave like a normal adult and accept that you have autonomy over all decisions about yourself.

I'm worried that you don't know what a normal healthy relationship looks like OP.

Nothing that happened after you asked what he wanted for breakfast is normal or healthy.

He ignored your questions. Despite being ignored you still prepared breakfast for him. He kicked off because you didn't make the right breakfast. You left the room to get away (and also to work) and he physically dragged you away. He made food you didn't want and forced you to eat it. He then made it clear from his words and actions that he's blaming you for the whole situation.

And you're minimising by suggesting he was probably trying to hug you - do you REALLY think that? And how to resolve without upsetting him further.

None of that is normal or healthy. You're the one who should be upset. You should be angry that he is treating you like this. You said you didn't want LTB but if someone had so little respect for me in a relationship I'd be long gone.

@polkadotty2

Whilst I think he is in the wrong, "abusive" seems a bit much. He's not much of a talker as he is a doer. He probably was only trying to pull me away from the desk so he can give me a cuddle, take us both downstairs and avoid the unnecessary argument / strop. I wonder if he recognised he was in the wrong hence why then offering to make eggs/breakfast for us both.

We generally have a good marriage. He's a rather calm, chilled person. Doesn't ever get worked up (which works me up more). I sometimes get frustrated and shout when I feel I am not being heard/ or he is just being defensive. He does generally treat me well and we do normally work well as a partnership.

Of course I have only told you all about a negative thing, an argument thats happened today, so I don't quite intend to "LTB" but I can appreciate why you have said that based on this thread alone. I would really appreciate helpful advice from you wise lot as to what to do next to prevent this sort of this happening again. (We are mid 30s, been together many years but married for just 2)

If my husband wanted to avoid an argument, attempting to drag me anywhere would not be a good or successful way to go about that! I cannot believe you are normalising this, if DH did that he would be gone on the spot. “Abusive” is not an exaggeration, it is what it is.

To prevent this happening again, you need to leave or tell him to leave.

If you think you can sort this out by talking to him OP you're in for a steep learning curve. He'll deny what he's done, make you feel like you're crazy and irrational and emotional (you aren't).

If you DO manage to pin him down on anything, he'll blame you, then get angry, then get 'upset' because he lives you so much, and he's so sorry he upset you, and he'll love-bomb you for a bit...

... And then it will all start again.

It seems to me he deliberately pushed a load of your buttons this morning, and this: he starts to physically drag me away from my laptop which really irritates me, I have to shout to get him to stop using his strength is absolutely unacceptable.

I know he will only see what I have done wrong and not himself and not change his ways.

So you know this situation isn't going to get better. Is him trying to force you to do / not do something physically a new tactic or something he has done before?

I think you need to keep a diary of these incidents until you're ready to face up to it. Trying not to rise to the bait when he does things which he knows annoy you may help, but I suspect he is too good at it, and will only escalate to get a reaction from you to then justify him laying hands on you/punishing you with silence.

I think you were wrong to make him breakfast when you’d asked him what he wanted and he didn’t respond clearly and when you were feeling annoyed he was on screens. To me behaviour like that is being a martyr, you wanted him to be appreciative but he had made it clear by not properly responding when you asked what he wanted for breakfast that he wasn’t in an appreciative mood. Considering you were already frustrated it would have been better to just make yourself breakfast and leave him to sort himself out and I think it’s a bit much to expect someone to be grateful for something they didn’t really want, it strikes me as a bit controlling to be preparing an elaborate breakfast for him when he is clearly chilling and isn’t ready for it.

That said, it was unreasonable for him to make a big deal about you not having made eggs. He could have just said no thank you to what you had made and sorted his own eggs. He was absolutely 100% in the wrong for physically manhandling you, there is never any excuse for an argument/ disagreement to become physical and just because he wasn’t being stereotypically aggressive doesn’t mean it is okay to use strength and force on a partner.

Personally the use of physical force in a relationship would be a dealbreaker for me. If it really isn’t for you then at least I would make it very clear to him that if he ever lays a finger on you in that way you will be walking out the door. Regardless of how arguments/ disagreements arise or who has shouted etc it is never okay to use physical force on a partner.

Moving forward I do also think you need to step back from trying to control how he spends his leisure time. You don’t have kids so I don’t understand the problem with him spending time on his phone/ screens? You do sound overly needy in wanting him to have a picture perfect breakfast with you in the morning, if he’s not enthusiastic when you suggest breakfast and is engaged in something else it would be better for you to just sort yourself out as otherwise your behaviour could be seen as controlling and trying to force him from his screens to eat. As an adult he should be able to decide for himself when he has breakfast and what he makes, he shouldn’t have to apologise for sitting in front of screens whilst you made a breakfast he didn’t actually ask for.

This relationship is turning you into someone you don't like - because you are experiencing reactive abuse - where he is gaslighting you (denying saying/doing things when you know he has) and so you get driven into a rage and do things you regret.

Google it, google emotional abuse - and if you don't leave, get used to how you feel right now, because it's only ever going to get worse.

Hi OP, you have had a lot of good advice on this thread.

You posted because you got angry. I think your anger is trying to tell you something - only you can say what that might be, but it might be worth thinking about it.

I agree with those who suggest counselling/therapy as a space to work out your feelings about him and your relationship.

OP, I was in a relationship like this many years ago and I tried to justify both his behaviour (abusive) and mine (reactive). It won’t change. He has to both refinish what he is doing wrong and want to change, and it doesn’t sound like he’s the type to. I was so calm, secure and relaxed away from him, I was like a different and not in a good way person when I was with him. So much repressed anxiety and anger.

My life is now so different and I can’t believe how long I put up with a mutually unhappy situation. My ex, by all accounts, repeated his behaviour in his next relationship and learned nothing. I’m back to being happy with a lovely man who respects me. Don’t let someone tell you what you have to eat for breakfast, when you should have it, make you physically respond by dragging you because they feel entitled. Better things are out there for you.

Hi everyone. I am back from my brief outing. I have read everything you have all said. Thank you. Unsurprisingly, he still hasn't reached out to me.

It is eating me up, I am not sure whether to be the one that approaches him as usual or to leave it/ keep waiting. I cant be bothered to wait / want to take control of the situation but equally don't want to go in apologetically neither do I particularly want to listen to what I did wrong etc. I do need to take ownership for the shouting and namecalling but don't want this to become the center of the conversation. I want him to realise or at least become aware of how unacceptable his behaviour was (gently convey some of what has been said on this thread) and make him realise I will not tolerate this sort of behaviour, while I am not walking now realise that if he continues like this he leaves me no choice.

strikes me as a bit controlling to be preparing an elaborate breakfast for him when he is clearly chilling and isn’t ready for it

Funny then that he suddenly appeared for his breakfast and expressed disappointment that there were no eggs cooked as well. He even said she "could have done them in that time". Sounds like someone pretty ready for breakfast to me.

OP "being controlling" my arse!

i cant imagine a relationship where we shout and drag each other around

VEry odd

@polkadotty2 I think you are spending at least twenty times more time thinking about this than him

Ask him if he is going to apologise. Stop over thinking. Then either move on or move out

He sounds charmless

It strikes me you're spending a lot of time thinking about how to communicate with him so he understands your point of view, despite past events demonstrating this is a waste of effort.

He's not interested in your point of view. Nothing you can say will get him to reflect on anything he might have done wrong. Guaranteed.

He's more interested in his screens than you.
That'd piss me off on it's own, let alone the rest!

He's abusive. He's gaslighting you, pushing your buttons so you react and look like the crazy one and sounds like he's going to ignore you until you apologise when all you did was make the ungrateful dickhead breakfast. That's called stonewalling.

And that's before we even get to the fact he laid hands on you to try and pull you around. You seem to have justified it to yourself as he wanted to cuddle you. Did you want to be cuddled at that moment?

Read "why does he do that" by Lundy bancroft, with an open mind. See if any of it resonates.

It is unimaginable to me that another adult could ever force me to eat eggs if I didn't want to eat them.

But then it's also unimaginable that I would lay breakfast out for a man who was sat on his phone, and then be dragged by him, and then just carry on with my day.

Jesus H Christ - he physically dragged you from your laptop because he wanted eggs for breakfast. And now that you aren't falling at his feet in gratitude for manhandling you and emotionally blackmailing you to eat food you didn't want, he's sulking? And you're beating yourself up for swearing and name-calling?

What the fuck?

If my H dragged me anywhere you're damn right I'd be calling him all the names under the sun.

This is not normal. Normal blokes do not physically drag their partners against their will anywhere to do anything.

Do not apologise. In your shoes I'd be telling him that if he lays a finger on me again then my first call will be the police, and my second will be to a divorce lawyer.

@MolkosTeenageAngst

I think you were wrong to make him breakfast when you’d asked him what he wanted and he didn’t respond clearly and when you were feeling annoyed he was on screens. To me behaviour like that is being a martyr, you wanted him to be appreciative but he had made it clear by not properly responding when you asked what he wanted for breakfast that he wasn’t in an appreciative mood. Considering you were already frustrated it would have been better to just make yourself breakfast and leave him to sort himself out and I think it’s a bit much to expect someone to be grateful for something they didn’t really want, it strikes me as a bit controlling to be preparing an elaborate breakfast for him when he is clearly chilling and isn’t ready for it.

That said, it was unreasonable for him to make a big deal about you not having made eggs. He could have just said no thank you to what you had made and sorted his own eggs. He was absolutely 100% in the wrong for physically manhandling you, there is never any excuse for an argument/ disagreement to become physical and just because he wasn’t being stereotypically aggressive doesn’t mean it is okay to use strength and force on a partner.

Personally the use of physical force in a relationship would be a dealbreaker for me. If it really isn’t for you then at least I would make it very clear to him that if he ever lays a finger on you in that way you will be walking out the door. Regardless of how arguments/ disagreements arise or who has shouted etc it is never okay to use physical force on a partner.

Moving forward I do also think you need to step back from trying to control how he spends his leisure time. You don’t have kids so I don’t understand the problem with him spending time on his phone/ screens? You do sound overly needy in wanting him to have a picture perfect breakfast with you in the morning, if he’s not enthusiastic when you suggest breakfast and is engaged in something else it would be better for you to just sort yourself out as otherwise your behaviour could be seen as controlling and trying to force him from his screens to eat. As an adult he should be able to decide for himself when he has breakfast and what he makes, he shouldn’t have to apologise for sitting in front of screens whilst you made a breakfast he didn’t actually ask for.

If a work colleague had asked him if he wanted a coffee, dont you think he would have gad the courtesy to reply ?

Do not apologize, do not eat humble pie, do not make his supper.
Turning the TV back on was petty & he was looking to get a rise out if you.
Any chance you could go somewhere else this evening ?

I think I may have just ended our relationship and I am not sure how to feel.