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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

What would you have replied to this message?

117 replies

Fairylighter · 10/12/2021 19:43

A bit of background history first (also NC as I'm trying not to be outing for this but I'm a long-time lurker and occasional poster on MN). And sorry, it got a bit long.

I've been friends with a local guy for about five years and we have mutual friends too. He's a bit of a 'character' and the 'knows everyone' type (mainly due to his work). He's been on-off single since I've known him but in this time he's had two main relationships (a year/eighteen months or so each). When things have gone a bit wrong in these relationships, he's often asked me for advice, which I've given, and he's done the same for me. The friendship had become reasonably close, I'd say, and we had a level of trust talking about these things. We felt very comfortable with each other as friends. All good. For context, we're early 50s, not sixteen as some may shortly think.

However, several years back, he made it quite clear that he had a 'thing' for me. He told me there was a physical attraction but something deeper too. Then he started crossing lines and flirting with me, often while in these relationships but only when things were going wrong in them. It became a pattern - he'd be in touch, moan about his r/ship issues, then flirt with me. I'd shut him down and didn't respond in the way he wanted - and he admitted he was out of order doing it, but still continued. If there was ever any similar flirting back from me (much less from me as I just didn't feel comfortable tbh as it was mainly by text which felt weird), it was always when he'd told me he was single - though his pattern was that he'd get back with his gf again and the flirting would all stop until next time he broke up/had troubles. He did a lot of breaking up/reuniting, it seemed. And our contact followed a similar pattern - I'd sometimes not hear from him for several months at a time. Which, as mates, is fine, of course.

I suspected his latest relationship was coming to an end (I'd had all the usual signs plus he'd called several times for advice) and sure enough, he told me several months ago that it was finally over and he was single and he'd done the right thing ending it. Looking back at the messages, he told me they'd broken up but it 'wasn't official' yet. (I mean, was he going to announce it in the Times or something?)

So when the flirting and conversation picked up again, I went with it. I liked him (he's quite charismatic and charming/witty) and felt that perhaps the timing was now right for us given that he was properly single. He told me it was completely over with the previous gf and they parted on good terms.

Then he asked me on an actual date. He'd sorted it all, paid, picked me up etc - it was really nice, quite romantic and there was some physical intimacy involved. We both enjoyed the evening. Of course, the 'red flag' of him being capable of flirting while in a r/ship (if that's where we were headed going forward) was at the back of my mind and, rightly or wrongly, I chose to overlook this side of him.

Then in the days immediately following the date, his usual level and style of texting changed dramatically. It became much, much less and quite formal (as though we barely knew each other!) and he left my messages unread for days at a time. It was like getting blood from a stone. I even asked what was up/why so quiet, but I got the 'just busy with work/life' brush off. I wasn't pestering or over texting by any means, rather matching his level. So I figured I'd ask him to meet up one evening again for a meal (this was now several weeks after the original date) and his response would tell me what I needed to know. Well basically, there was no response. He didn't even read my message for over a week! I didn't chase it up or send another one - no reply was a message in itself. I began to wonder what I'd done wrong to turn him off so completely and suddenly, when on the evening, it had all seemed lovely.

Then out of the blue one evening (over a week after I'd sent my message re dinner), I got a reply apologising for the silence and that he was absolutely heartbroken and had been in a terrible dark place the last few weeks (which would mean before and during our 'date' evening - he didn't seem that bloody heartbroken at the time!!!) and how much he was struggling. He told me he's realised that he's 'head over heels in love and should never have broken up with her' (meaning his previous gf).

Nothing else about me or how I might feel, and no mention of my ignored invite to dinner (the suggested date of which had now passed!) - just the above message. So MNers... if you're still with me, how would you feel if you'd got this message? And what would you have replied? Or what would you have done? Thank you x

OP posts:
Fairylighter · 11/12/2021 09:20

@nocnoc

Oh my god you don’t live in the South East near the Coast do you because I’ve got a friend who exactly fits this description of him. He’s from another country originally. He’s an utter narc. He would not have been bothered by your text as he has zero empathy or interest in anyone’s feelings apart from his own. His ego needs the attention of women and he enjoys playing women for his own needs. Don’t respond to him. He’s an expert Hoover so prepare to be contacted again in about a year. Just do not respond. You’re nothing to him so it’s time to move on.
I don't live in the SE or near the coast, no. BUT he was originally from a SE coastal area! He's not lived there for years though, and he's not originally from another country so I don't think it's the same guy. But they sound super similar! There are sadly so many of these types out there, I've discovered in my dating 'adventures' - and I'm a bloody magnet for them!
OP posts:
Itsnotover · 11/12/2021 09:26

Omg. What a piece of shit he is. It's quite possible that he's saying and doing the same things to the other women in his web of lies. And is getting off on triangulating all of you.

He knows exactly what he is saying and it is intended to cause hurt.

I wouldn't wish him well, I'd tell him exactly what I thought of him and then block him.

Fairylighter · 11/12/2021 09:37

@Onthedunes

I've been friends with a local guy for about five years and we have mutual friends too. He's a bit of a 'character' and the 'knows everyone' type (mainly due to his work)

Oh dear, it looks like you've just discovered your part in the life of your 'friend' the narcissist.
It looks like you have been held in a holding possition for quite some years on one of the outer circles. Is he attractive and charming ?
You got on very well with him, he mirrored your feelings and you both fed on helping one another with relationship advice.

That must have felt intoxicating to be let in on his personal world and you fancied him to boot. I bet you loved him popping round, he made you feel special and close, a true confidant.

Now
Imagine this man as the sun, he has his primary love (the ex?), who shall we say is the closest thing he has to total empathy for him, she will give a lot, put up with a lot, he may find her extremely attractive or she has qualities above all others to service his needs.
She is an empath, he will though, critisize her to others.

She, in his circle would be mercury to his sun. You, would be, if being generous at about the earth's orbit.
Narcs tend to have their inner and outer circles, consisting of not just women but men, pulling upon different people for their every need.

They are users.

Some for buisness, some for friendships, validation, triangulation, sexual needs, networking, usually a high turnover of aqaintances to feed their ego.
You were brought closer to him, it was required, whether to triangulate his partner or to ease boredom and fuel his ego. This felt nice to you being brought closer to the sun, maybe as close as Venus.

You were used as you have always been, but now have been shunted to Pluto, you have been discarded.

If you accept how he has behaved you will in time be brought back to being a friend (back to earth possition) but with no expectations, you have been put in your place.

This man is horrible, a user, he is not who you thought he was, you are actually lucky he did not want you for his primary partner.
I would keep well away from him, if you try to interfere with his ex I believe this man could turn nasty.

I don't think you know who you are dealing with.

He will not have liked you ripping him a new arsehole, they always get you back for misdameanors, if not with rage then by using others to blacken your name, a smear campaign behind your back.

There will be many others just like you who are willing to listen and be called upon to be his 'friend'.
The list will be endless.

Stay out of his way and forget about him in everyway possible way, he really isn't your friend.

You've hit the nail on the head here, @Onthedunes . I didn't want to mention the term 'narcissist' as I know it gets used a lot and I don't want to dilute it or 'misdiagnose'. But actually, I think you're 100% right. With all the other stuff I know about him (far too much to type), I am of the mind he is definitely a narc. I had suspected it before this tbh, but he was always so 'emotional' and willing to show his 'feelings' that I thought I might be wrong. I remember, he once told me that he knew he was 'hard work' in relationships - on several occasions actually (long before our date). He also told me an ex-wife from a long while ago was a full-blown narcissist and had me sympathising with all the bad treatment he had from her. I'm thinking it was more likely the other way round now!

You using the term 'inner and outer circles' gave me the shivers actually. I remember he once told me that I was now in his 'inner circle'. This was at the time when the flirting started and he said he had a 'thing' for me. Stupidly, I felt flattered by that. Ugh he makes me want to puke now.

Yep, I think I've been used as a triangulation tool and a bit of light entertainment while he messes his main supply about. When it was ending with her (which took a couple of months to happen) he was slagging her behaviour off to me. He also said that she's very rich and 'high-powered' and he wasn't good enough/similar to her. Whatever that all means. From what I know of her, I hope she's 'high-powered' enough to see right through him and not take him back. Though he's so bloody charming and manipulative, I wouldn't be surprised.

Again, you're right - I don't think I fully knew what I was dealing with. He'd kept his mask fairly straight up until recently, but it's completely fallen off now. I fully expect the smear campaign (this was one of the reasons for hesitating before sending my ripping new arsehole message) but I thought why should I be scared of the repercussions? So I sent it anyway and figured the truth would out if it needed to.

OP posts:
Fairylighter · 11/12/2021 09:45

@Itsnotover

Omg. What a piece of shit he is. It's quite possible that he's saying and doing the same things to the other women in his web of lies. And is getting off on triangulating all of you.

He knows exactly what he is saying and it is intended to cause hurt.

I wouldn't wish him well, I'd tell him exactly what I thought of him and then block him.

Yup, he is!! And I imagine he has a whole harem of supply set up to massage his ego.

I did indeed tell him what I thought of him (the message was pretty damn fine in a 'slaying' kind of way, even if I do say so myself haha) and despite a couple of whiny replies from him straight after that, I've not replied further to him. This was now a bit over a week ago. But I didn't block him on whatsapp. And he hasn't me either (though he's disposed of me on all social media). WA is clearly going to be his hoovering channel. I'm wondering if I should now block him there, or if that looks too much like he's been on my mind this past week. I'm inclined to just leave it and keep whatsapp open as the only other method for the inevitable hoover would be him turning up at my door!

OP posts:
IamGusFring · 11/12/2021 09:55

Block him on WhatsApp and set yourself free . The relief you will feel will be immense . No contact with the current woman - it makes you look bitter and if you roll with a pig you will get dirty !

user1471538283 · 11/12/2021 09:57

Off he goes then. I would never speak to him again because he will pull the same sort of shit next time.

me4real · 11/12/2021 10:05

I did, however, feel a bit guilty that I'd not been sympathetic to him - hence this post really

No way @Fairylighter , he should feel guilty about how he's treated you.

And he hasn't me either (though he's disposed of me on all social media). WA is clearly going to be his hoovering channel. I'm wondering if I should now block him there, or if that looks too much like he's been on my mind this past week.

He blocked you on other channels so I would block him, make it even clearer what you think.

I'm inclined to just leave it and keep whatsapp open as the only other method for the inevitable hoover would be him turning up at my door!

In my experience they don't always hoover. If someone hurts their pride by saying they don't want them around, they won't come back for more (unless someone is their primary partner and massively useful to them maybe.) But he might try it on again sometime I suppose.

The hoover is for when he has dropped you and wants to pick you back up again. So the attempted hoover would've been his text that he was heartbroken over his ex. That was a badly judged one though.

andtherewere2 · 11/12/2021 10:10

The thing is OP, you didn't like him like that before. You were perfectly happy being friends.

He has used all these strategies to pull you into his hareem of women that he can flirt with or comfort himself with when he isn't getting what he wants from other women. He's a commitment phone, drama king but also incapable of being a friend. You do know he'll be talking about you, using you "liking him" to other women in his hareem?

It's hard to acknowledge he was never the friend you thought he was, but easier to see now that you never liked him like that really- you only liked fake idea of him that he was presenting when he turned charm on and claiming to be misunderstood- creating that fake intimacy. He's very manipulative

I wouldn't leave any avenues open for him to contact you. The sooner you get rid of him entirely without any contact, the healthier your life will be. As another PP said make 2022 year a twat free year.

me4real · 11/12/2021 10:15

You do know he'll be talking about you, using you "liking him" to other women in his hareem?

Yep 'I had to get rid of Fairylighter cos she was obsessed with me' or something.

Receptionclass · 11/12/2021 10:17

Block him because he will come crawling back at some point when she dumps him again, or whenever any new woman dumps him. He's no prize OP because you would never be able to trust him, as his various girlfriends can't. It is hard to turn off your feelings but any contact with him just feed your feelings. Block him on everything and if you see him in real life be civil and breezy.

Yuledo · 11/12/2021 10:18

Ignoring is more powerful than blocking. That shows you care.

M0rT · 11/12/2021 10:23

I don't intend to be mean but you need to look at why you thought he would treat you differently to other women?
Your friendship consisted of him slagging off his current girlfriends while flirting with you, why did you think that made him someone you should still talk to let alone go for dinner with?
I would block him on everything so when he unblocks next year to reel you back in he can't.
Then I'd have a think about therapy or journaling or something. Otherwise the next one won't be an improvement. Good luck 🍀

ImAGreenToothbrush · 11/12/2021 10:31

I know blocking causes a bit of debate. I used to know (and carry a torch for) someone a bit like this.
Then I came across Knowing The Narcissist (HG Tudor) and he explains very well that the blocking is simply a means to go no contact. As he hasn't blocked you on WhatsApp he is just giving you the silent treatment. You've just been shelved for a while. He'll pop up again when you least expect it, and start his games all over again.
If you block him it is to protect yourself from all this. It's nothing to do with sending a message. It's about you, not him.
I really feel your pain, have been there in almost identical circumstances and it hurts.
Highly recommend looking up KTK.
Good luck OP!

Noeuf · 11/12/2021 10:34

Well clearly he is taking up way too much head space. I suspect your ‘slaying’ and ‘wiping the floor’ have done no more than provide him with an amusing anecdote about his stalker - much better not to provide any fodder to these weirdos.

Just block him, delete his number etc. Hard break is the quickest way to realise you are currently far too immersed in this. You want to be looking back not around.

LostForIdeas · 11/12/2021 10:37

Re blocking him
Do what is best for YOU.

When he contacts you again, because he will, are you likely to be drawn out again? Then block.

If you think you can just ignore him, whatever drivel he is sending you (incl I need you do much, I’m struggling right now bla-bla) then leave him alone, wondering. And knowing he has been busted.

LostForIdeas · 11/12/2021 10:40

@ImAGreenToothbrush
Somehow missed your post! We are on the same wavelength it seems.

I’d also say atm you e been thinking about how to handle the blocking from his pov. How he would react etc….
Time to turn the tables and do what YOU want and feels works for you. With no interest in the effect on him iyswim

beastlyslumber · 11/12/2021 10:43

Yeah, he may well not be back again. He will only try and "hoover" you if he thinks he will get what he wants from you. Since you've made it clear that you're not impressed, he's unlikely to bother with you - you're too much hard work. So he's left whatsapp open as a 'just in case' he runs out of other people and thinks he'll give it a try OR so that you have an avenue to contact him when you realise how you can't live without him. At which point, he would massively enjoy messing about with you and punishing you for calling him out on his shitty behaviour.

I wouldn't worry about him hoovering you - realistically, he probably won't bother with you again.

Fairylighter · 11/12/2021 11:03

Lots of really good points here and I'm reading all replies and taking things on board. For all those saying block him - and it would be for MY reasons rather than his (I know there's a difference) - it's definitely on the cards. I just don't want to give him any more of a reaction or fodder to use in his smear campaign. 'Fairylighter is crazy! She blocked me when I was so upset and heartbroken!' etc etc. But I realise that's making it all about him haha.

@me4real yes, hopefully he won't hoover and I've dented his pride enough for him to leave me alone now.

@andtherewere2 yup, he's a commitment-phobe for sure! And you're right - a few years ago, I was quite happy just being friends. In fact, I remember one time thinking when we were having a coffee meet that I'd never want to be romantically involved with him! Just goes to show how strong his 'charm and manipulation' tactics were. And perhaps me being too vulnerable somehow, making me fall for it.

@Yuledo - this is where my current thinking is. Blocking him is me 'flouncing off' and showing I care, when I really don't anymore. I did - hence this thread - but it's really helped me move on emotionally from it. I realise this thinking is still about what HE will think if I block or not, but the fact is, if he wants to be in touch somehow, he will be - whether it's turning up or sending a message. If in doubt, I'll do nowt!

@M0rT - agree with everything you said. All his red flags were still fluttering in the back of my mind, but I DID think he might treat me differently. Such was the power of his charm and manipulation, I suppose. I thoroughly have the ick now though!

Thanks for the book recommendation @ImAGreenToothbrush I'll look it up. Sorry you had a similar situation. It does sting and hurt for sure. I think you're right about the silent treatment!! He's done that to me in the past too... but didn't bother me particularly as we were just 'friends' then.

I'm really appreciative of all these thoughtful replies and I can't tell you how much it's helped me. I wish I could reply individually to each one but even wordy old me can't type that much haha. But I'm reading and re-reading all of them for a morale boost! And it's working. I honestly didn't expect such a unanimous response! Rest assured though, if he does hoover, I'm not replying. I'll pop back later to check the thread. Meantime, thank you!! x

OP posts:
Fireflygal · 11/12/2021 11:13

@Onthedunes, totally agree.

Op, very few narcissists are diagnosed so the reality is it's an under used term. Given medical experts now agree it caused by negative childhood experiences and genetics it's highly likely that statistics are way higher than any estimates. I had zero knowledge of the disorder when I met Ex (pre Internet) and he fits the definition 100%. His history, multiple marriages, side relationships etc also proves it.

Thankfully there is now greater awareness of the disorder. Why you attract them?? Firstly, it's because many narcissists are in the dating pool - they have to have attention from multiple sources, they are easily bored and due to no empathy can't make relationships work. They are often charming and wonderful at mirroring so they appear attractive. Also as you get older more of them will be available.

However on a personal responsibility level. Look at the red flags you ignored..don't beat yourself up but do learn from it.

Momijin · 11/12/2021 11:22

Just block him op. What he thinks or pride or anything doesn't matter. Who cares? Block him and be done with him

Receptionclass · 11/12/2021 11:26

I just don't think you can rely on him not to pop back up again, whatever you've said to him. What matters the most to him is attention and if there is a lull of attention from women in the future, he will get back in touch with you, whatever you have said to him. He doesn't care. He is that self absorbed that he will always think you're into him, unless you ignore/don't give an avenue. I was involved with a guy like him and I said all sorts of extreme stuff- I wished he was dead, I hated him etc etc. He did always come crawling back despite him painting me publicly as a psycho. And I'll be honest, deep down, I always wanted him to crawling back as I suspect you do.

ImAGreenToothbrush · 11/12/2021 11:26

@Fairylighter you'll be OK you sound very sensible.
The knowing the narcissist guy has a website/blog , but books and videos too.
I don't need it anymore but he's actually very entertaining.
Best of luck x

Noshowlomo · 11/12/2021 13:29

He deserved the dressing down you gave him. I GUARANTEE he will message you again. And that’s when you IGNORE completely. What a shit head

ArdeaCinerea · 11/12/2021 14:04

I think you need to understand and accept that in his stories to others, you will be the crazy one who is crazy about him, regardless of what you do. Reply, don't reply, block, don't block, show you care, don't show you care- it's all the same because the story has already been written. You have zero control over his narrative. That's how these narc guys operate: you've already been smeared. The blocking is for your benefit, so that you don't receive his hoover attempts. He doesn't care what you do. On his side, you are "crazy" and "bitter" either way.

TheTrinity · 11/12/2021 14:14

I would feel revulsion and anger. He would be dead to me. No response to his message - just block/delete/unfriend everywhere and do not open your door to him if he has the utter shamelessness to go to your home.

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