If you have any perspective on passive control please help me see sense

[BluebellShells]

I have no idea if it’s me being paranoid or DH being passively controlling. Things have escalated in the last few months and I feel as low as I’ve felt for a long time. I can’t make sense of it all. It’s reached a point where my teen DC is making comments about me that aren’t very nice and I’m feeling heartbroken.
Has anyone experienced a passive aggressive dynamic? I can give examples of what has been happening just didn’t want to put it all out there as I’m after advice on whether I’m really the one who is being crap or if I’m justified in feeling upset and worried

Yes, exactly the same happened with me. It was like being on trial. It was absolutely horrible, and gave him lots of things to throw at me. He then had personal therapy, as did I, and that also enabled him to say he had no issues and the problem was me.

It was just hideous.

We then saw a different marriage counsellor and it felt a bit better, but that was ultimately because she had experience of coercive control and could see that was what was going on.

@BluebellShells

Another example is if we’re going on a day trip he’ll not come out to the car for ages whilst we sit and wait, then you can cut the atmosphere with a knife as I try to make light conversation so much so my DC think I must have been horrible to him before we got in the car but I haven’t said it done a thing. Hard to explain

My XH used to do that. His favourite trick was to go for a leisurely sh!t and keep us waiting in the car. Obviously, I'd be completely unreasonable to get angry about that, wouldn't I?

I didn't understand about passive aggression for a long time, so I'd get more and more angry with him, trying to provoke him out of his stonewalling behaviour. He had me believing, in all seriousness, that I had an anger management problem. I didn't; I had a sulky husband problem. Just like your 'D'H, it was an ingrained, learned behaviour, in his case from his mother. I would recommend Lundy Bancroft, plus Living with the Passive-Aggressive Man, plus some googling on passive aggression and sulking.

Divorcing him was...fun. A counsellor explained to me that because I'd backed down to XH for years he was expecting me to give in to his divorce demands, too. I didn't. I took him all the way to FDR at the county court .

Living with a sulker is appalling. I'm much, much happier without him.

He is a horrible man. He is subjecting you to serious emotional abuse, to the extent that you are questioning yourself over everything. He is emotionally abusive because he enjoys having the power over you - he is very unlikely to change - this is how he treats his partner - he has to be in charge - even of your mind. I would leave, just to protect my sanity. He will start being absolutely lovely if he gets a whiff of you leaving him and then revert to being the controlling, punishing swine that he is now.

@Harddecisionhelp

It will take time to figure out what you want to do long term OP but in the meantime can I offer some survival tips? The first is the hardest but it's the key to everything so worth making the effort, you need to detach. Stop allowing him to colour everything with his mood and focus on DC and everything else around you, stop making (because he manipulates you into making) him the centre of everything. It's hard because his moods are so oppressive but it's liberating to realise you don't have to sit under the cloud he creates.

Try to stay calm, don't let him push you into that hyper state where you overcompensate for his silence and sulking. Get on with stuff in your usual way and don't let him stop you, essentially act as though he isn't in a mood. So do your tree this weekend and if he wants to sit in a corner and sulk, let him.

I can't stress enough how important that detachment is though, you know now that this isn't you, reread this thread every time you feel that belief wavering and keep the thought at the front of your mind that this is HIM, you are just going about your daily life. He currently has you dancing like a puppet to appease him, to not upset him, to achieve impossible standards when you don't even know what those standards are. Stop dancing, cut the strings and stop caring so much about whether or not he's happy, because he certainly doesn't care whether you are.

The answers to the big questions will come as your confidence increases and you become more sure that you are not to blame for everything but for now you really need to start thinking of yourself again. He has trained you to centre him with his moods and controlling behaviour but that only works while you can't see it, now you can so it's time to stop dancing to his tune.

Great post.

OP,

You have to detach.

Your children desperately need you to stop putting this awful man first and think about them.

They need to be your absolute priority.

I’m really grateful for the solid advice your giving me and links to books etc I’m taking it all in
I’ve already started to detach funnily enough! I can’t stand the tension. I’ve also started to really crave my old self, my interests and my friends though last time I was with them I was so anxious I had to go home. You’re right about the calm approach now. It’s tricky because it’s mental to ignore being ignored as it makes it look like I’m the one who is uncaring. Tricky. It either must become functional again or we have to part ways and that will not be fun.
Thank you again for those who have given me personal insight from their own experience- it makes me feel less alone and less crazy

Also I sincerely think he is a good man just fucked up and with a compulsive nature to quietly fume to be in charge. I know many of you don’t agree but it’s his behaviour I can’t stand, not him in himself. That may sound weak or deluded but I wholeheartedly believe that it’s his behaviour not his actual self that is the problem. That being said, he is being selfish not sorting it out. He knows I don’t like it

The truth is he is damaging the poor innocent children who did not ask to be born into your home.

If you don't step up and protect them from him, YOUR legacy and that of your marriage will be children with totally fxxked mental health.

Is that really a chance you are willing to take?

@billy1966

The truth is he is damaging the poor innocent children who did not ask to be born into your home.

If you don't step up and protect them from him, YOUR legacy and that of your marriage will be children with totally fxxked mental health.

Is that really a chance you are willing to take?

This is really important for you to understand OP. You're not just making your peace with accepting this behaviour from him, you're forcing your children to tolerate this atmosphere and dynamic too. They're being shown an incredibly unhealthy relationship dynamic for as long as you stay living as a couple all under the same roof. It's so incredibly unfair on them.

I wouldn’t say he was a good man. My ex was like this. He also used to suffer from anxiety, which was handy, because he could blame all his bad behaviour on that, and of course if I complained that meant I was being horrible and unsympathetic about his mental health issues 🙄

The only hold he has over me now is taking days and days every time to respond to simple text enquiries about his time with the kids- ie, it’s been 24 hours since I asked him if we can swap weekends because the DC and I have Covid. I’ll give it another 48, but I usually have to prompt him. If I complain about this, he will punish me by finding an excuse to have the kids less. All I can say is, thank fuck this is all the dealing I have to have with him now.

Try Googling covert narcissism, it might be an eye opener.

@Harddecisionhelp is 100% right. You need to start detaching. It’s so difficult but it works. I married one of these creatures too. He honestly nearly destroyed me. Same tactics as your husband. He was also completely emotionally unavailable too. It stemmed back to his childhood and I gave him so much leeway because I knew what he grew up with.

I would ask for us to go to counselling and he would reply with “there’s nothing wrong with me, it’s all you and your anger, you’re half mad.”

Turns out I’m actually quite a great person. I’m not half mad, I was so unhappy and resentful and lost really. I’m separated nearly 4 years and I’m really only starting to feel like myself again.

I wish you well OP as when I think about the shit I put up with for so many years, walking on eggshells, terrified of confronting him about anything at all, his stonewalling etc I was so deeply entrenched in it I couldn’t see the wood for the trees. I did think it was me, I remember even going into counselling and the first thing I said was I think I have a personality disorder (no offence to anyone who does, but that’s how low and confused he made me feel.)

He’s still the same, has absolutely zero self awareness and still blames me for everything. Good to see he’s learned absolutely nothing but that’s his issue now, not mine xx

@BluebellShells

Ok, I will ride it out for now. I’ve been here before second guessing myself. I know in the future I’ll look back and wonder why I bothered. I just need my self esteem to rise a bit so I can fathom what to do next

Why? At what cost?

Is there any chance you could get counselling? (for you not your marriage)

I would agree with the counselling for you, not relationship counselling, which even if he agrees to it could become him relating a distorted perception of your relationship rather an accurate account of his own behaviours. It sounds like you need all your strength to decide what you want to do next.
You spoke about believing you self sabotage and that struck a chord with me which is why I wanted to respond. You wanting to address his impossible behaviours and treatment of you is not you self sabotaging. But it sounds like you may need support to help you really believe that and have the confidence to know how to address things with him or take steps to remove yourself, in other words, what to do next.
I really hope you are having an ok day, OP.

I agree, joint counselling is never recommended when there's abuse, and he is definitely emotionally abusive. Individual counselling would be great for you though OP, help you find your voice again and figure out what you want

He's teaching any kids in the house how relationships work. He's a product of his family. Do you want yours to pass that shit on to theirs?

Whatever label you put on his behaviour OP, you sound deeply unhappy. And remember that this is reason alone to leave a marriage. There are no prizes for persevering under these circumstances. The biggest relief of my childhood was the day my mum finally left my abusive dad.

@BluebellShells

Also I sincerely think he is a good man just fucked up and with a compulsive nature to quietly fume to be in charge. I know many of you don’t agree but it’s his behaviour I can’t stand, not him in himself. That may sound weak or deluded but I wholeheartedly believe that it’s his behaviour not his actual self that is the problem. That being said, he is being selfish not sorting it out. He knows I don’t like it

Your DH reminds me so much of my ex. That way the atmosphere in the room can just suddenly drop, even though he hasn't changed outwardly and doesn't appear angry, but you know that fury is there.

I also gave my ex loads of leeway and forgiveness because of his bad childhood, his abusive father, etc. I thought that he was doing the best he could, he was a good man. He wasn't, and it got worse and worse.

Yours also isn't a good man. A good man would be trying his best to recognise his behaviour and change it, because it is obvious how much its hurting you. He is choosing to continue and escalate this behaviour, knowing how much he is damaging you and the children, because it benefits him and because he enjoys it. He is selfish and enjoys controlling you in the same way his father controlled the family when he was young. And he does not want to stop it, which makes him very much not a good man.

Once you split, I imagine he'll drop all pretense of being a good man to you and just get vicious, but will be the noble hero/victim to the rest of the world.

I used to feel exactly the same way. He would always walk 20 feet ahead of me as though he was ashamed to be with me. If I spoke about my life outside the house I was "going on". I used to see him smile with others and wonder why I couldn't do the same for him. I cried often.

I sought counseling for another issue and through that process learnt a lot about compassion for myself and others. I'd cry every single time because I didn't have that from him. I built my self confidence up brick by brick to the point where I knew I could never be truly happy with him. It was like he was invested in bringing me down so he could tread water.

I eventually left him and have a great relationship now. It's so easy, I never question anything about us. It's just so simple. I know he loves, values and respects me. I stayed with my ex because I thought and saw he was as damaged as I was but there was nothing that would convince him of this. He was incapable of changing his belief system to moderate his behaviour. I decided to let someone else see if he could change because I was wasting my life in limbo. I saw a post recently from his new gf about what he had allowed her to do and so I don't think he's changed at all (the same thing as he had said to me).

Get counseling and see what happens. You might be surprised.

Sadly OP he's abusing and gaslighting you. It's a behaviour he's learnt from his family, and since he won't even acknowledge it it was never get better. Abusers never stop anyway, at least 99.9% of the time. I'm sorry but for you and your kids you need to get out of there, he can't be allowed to treat you that way. Think about what kind of example it sets for your kids to stay in a relationship with someone who makes you unhappy x

He would always walk 20 feet ahead of me as though he was ashamed to be with me.

Yes, this ^ ! It used to upset me so much, but if I called him out on it he'd say I wasn't walking fast enough. On other days I'd be walking too fast and he'd lag behind .

God knows why I put up with it for so long. In the early days of the divorce process he tried to lay down the law to me about what I would and wouldn't do. It was so unbelievably liberating to reply, "You don't control me any more."

This is passive aggressive and game playing behaviour. He wants you low. He probably wants out of the relationship but is too cowardly to actually do anything about it. Decide you want better

It doesnt matter if hes fundamentally a good man or not. The world isnt divided into goodies and baddies. He could be fundamentally a nice person but a terrible husband.
I think you need to understand that your feelings and needs are valid and important. Youre not mad, youre not controlling. Youre just trying to get shit done and have a normal homelife. Not only does he not know how to do that because his family are all shit too, he has normalised his families attitude and is treating you terribly, and also the children.
You cant honestly expect your children to live like this?

@BluebellShells

I agree it’s probable that he can’t help it. And it’s about him feeling safe and in control. I don’t think he has any idea of how excruciating it is for me and is not aware of how it’s likely affecting the children. Should I try one last time to be open and talk about how we can make a healthy home for the children?

He can help it.

There's no chance he does this to superiors or anyone with any power or standing at work or any friends and family he sees as "strategic" to keep.

He does this only to the person he chooses to target, and that's you.

This sort of man will always have a target, almost always a domestic partner target and scapegoat, and often also someone junior to bully and scapegoat at work.

He'll never change, the arsehole behaviour is the real him, everything else is a mask to get what he wants or convince you to stay if he senses you've had enough - after which he'll both revert to abuse and also tighten the psychological and financial bindings which keep you trapped with him, to prevent any further threat of escape.

It's all entirely deliberate.