If you have any perspective on passive control please help me see sense

[BluebellShells]

I have no idea if it’s me being paranoid or DH being passively controlling. Things have escalated in the last few months and I feel as low as I’ve felt for a long time. I can’t make sense of it all. It’s reached a point where my teen DC is making comments about me that aren’t very nice and I’m feeling heartbroken.
Has anyone experienced a passive aggressive dynamic? I can give examples of what has been happening just didn’t want to put it all out there as I’m after advice on whether I’m really the one who is being crap or if I’m justified in feeling upset and worried

You send like you are in a very similar relationship to a very good friend of mine. Her DH has recently started pulling these stunts with the teenage DC, you need to leave.

I tend to think that if you get to the point of wondering if you're being abused / controlled etc then you most likely are. None of this is on you. It's him.

You talk about trying to do what’s best for the dc, for the relationship, and for him.

What would be best for you?

Even if the version of you that these men are showing you is true, and you are controlling and overbearing, you would still be entitled to consider and act on your own best interests.

Children can flourish in a home without a father figure. The nuclear relationship model isn’t the last word.

It’s not unusual to swop one abusive man for another, or an abusive one for a slightly less abusive one. It doesn’t prove that they were right about you. But it might show that you have some bars missing in your shark cage

I also want to say that children are not good judges of relationships. It’s not unusual for them to try and ease their cognitive dissonance by blaming the victim parent for not fighting back or for an imagined offence that helps them make sense of the abusive actions as a reaction. It’s a signal of subtle mental distress, rather than something to be taken as an impartial opinion.

This is one of the worst accounts of gaslighting I’ve ever read.

Op you are living with an abusive man. He doesn't care about your feelings or your children's, or he wouldn't act the way he does. He controls you and the whole house by moods, sulking, withholding agreement to things, refusing to engage with arrangements, intentionally spoiling special days, and making you think you are are somehow at fault.

He's done this for so long that you actually believe that you are in some way at fault. But you are not. There is nothing here to suggest that you are over-bearing and controlling, not a thing. He is accusing you of being what he actually IS. This is another part of his control - to make you think you are deeply flawed, which makes you more insecure, which means you won't leave him. And he does't want you to leave - despite his poor behaviour - because he enjoys having control in his house, and someone to play the 'wife' role, and the image that gives to the outside world.

He is making your life miserable and making your children question you and the situation. For their sake and yours, you need to get away from him.

You say that you worry what other people will think. I do understand that, but is what other people think more important than your children's welfare? and yours? And in any case, if people have always known you to be a truthful, decent person, why would they not believe you? I have had 2 friends divorce who didn't tell anyone they were being abused until they left their DH. In both cases, noone questionned their word (except perhaps the immediate family / closest friends of their DH, although I suspect they also knew it was probably true, but they didn't want to engage with them anymore anyway).

Keep seeking support here, and start making enquiries IRL about what you need to do, what your financial situation would be if you split.

And keep building on your relationship with your DCs. Be the loving, kind, supportive, positive mum that you've always been. They will see one parent being happy and supportive and one being moody and sulking. Which one would you want as a teen?

@BluebellShells I’m just getting out of a relationship that sounds very similar - the abuse is so subtle it’s hard to take a stand against and you feel like you’re imagining it. And poor DH is so very sad about it all that it must be my fault.

Except it isn’t. And it isn’t your fault either. Get yourself some counselling lovely, and then when you feel a little more strong you can either try and discuss things with him one more time, or you can make plans to leave. And when you’re ready, the last of those two will be the best and only option.

I didn’t think anyone would believe me either, because DH is so nice and helpful outside our home…but they all do and they are all supportive of the steps I am taking.

Start by looking after yourself in small ways and build your confidence and self-worth. You can do this, and the support of the ladies on here will help

"I sorted it by being very firm, open, calm and believing in my own reality which is THE reality." @N3WN8ME has nailed this - you currently believe your H is right when he says you're controlling, sabotaging etc - so you accept it and try to change yourself. But the reason you feel like you're going crazy is that a core part of you knows he isn't right and keeps popping up to say so. That's why you end up going round the same loop of questioning yourself and feeling like you're going mad.

When you feel sure in your reality its much easier to push back - because you're not doubting yourself. Of course it's OK to make a decision about a household issue without him giving his final say so. You're also an adult and perfectly capable of agreeing to put a new part in the boiler.

He is controlling you by his passive aggression. He's got you to stop talking about work, to accept his shitty behaviour when leaving the house, to not bother him with things that are stressful. And there are very likely a substantial number of other things that you've changed about yourself and the way your lives run.

Even if it isn't deliberate coercive control, its a horrible way to live - to subordinate yourself entirely to someone else's ways.

I don’t know what’s worse - him leaving me because he says I’m unreasonable or me leaving him because of his behaviour. Everyone will say it’s me either way

Neither are worse, actually you being able to recognise what’s happening and removing yourself from it is a very positive thing. While it means a change in lifestyle, it will also bring you peace and the possibility of living your life not walking on eggshells shells, being sure of your own decision making, steering your own ship without looking over your shoulder all the time.

In terms of support - I’m in the process of ending my marriage which to all and sundry looks to be in good shape. It isn’t, no abuse but a slow erosion of everything that I am through apathy and neglect. I spoke to a friend assuring her I’d thought long and hard about the decision beforehand. She replied “if you told me someone came to you in a dream and told you to leave, if you told me you woke this morning and decided on the spur of the moment to leave, I’d support you. You want to leave, that’s the reason for ending it, and that’s enough”. It made me realise that most people understand there are dynamics within a marriage that they don’t see, so someone wanting to leave is worthy of support.

You wanting to leave is enough.

.....and, most onlooking people aren't really interested in who was right or wrong in a divorce, its Yesterday's news within a very short period.
Your marriage didn't work out, it stops there.

I would get on with your w/e, he will give you the silent treatment, ignore him or just say, "when you have finished sulking you can help to X Y or Z".
Pull him up on it. "Lighten up, its the w/e, we are trying to enjoy it".
If you are going out, say "we are leaving at 10.00 to do X, if you want to come, be ready or we are leaving". Then leave.
So what if he says you are controlling? He is like a ball & chain.
You say "Your deliberate inertia is ruining the w/e".
or "there are 3 of us waiting, why are you being a dick ?".

You can fight back, you've got to the point where you know he is wrong, there is only one way to continue living together & its by calling him out on it. But you already know its over ultimately.

"Anyway, it’s got to be what’s best for the children. It needs to be a healthy, happy home and if we can’t make that happen no matter who’s to blame then we have to part ways. So sad for them"

You know it cannot continue.

I recognise some of this behaviour from my abusive ex, he would offer to drop me off meeting friends for dinner but take forever, we would be late, then act confused about where we were going and drop me a long walk away. All under the illusion of trying to do something nice for me.

He does know what he's doing and the fact it's the silent quiet way doesn't makes it any less awful, he's making you question yourself, and yes we all need to look at our own behaviour but I bet there's a nagging feeling that somethings not right and that it isn't really you.

People like this don't often change, and confrontation will likely make things worse in the long run, he probably has low self esteem and now that he has been 'seen' by you it will be a downward spiral as you can't un see the behaviour which causes him shame and will perpetuate the behaviour.

Goodness I've just seen your post where he is also throwing back at you the work you did in therapy, mine did this too!

Any talk from me about past struggles he began using against me, saying I was doing it again.

You would be so much happier living apart.

Maybe he would be too but I think he'd just find another victim.

Is it financially possible to separate?

You "fix it" by removing your child and yourself from this hideous situation.

It's definitely not you, it's him.
Have you thought about seeking individual counseling?

He sounds so awful.

This is a terrible environment for your children.

Do you share children?

What ages are your children?

You are concerned that he will get everything, including savings?

You need to get organised.
You need to get money from the savings i to a separate account.

Please ring Women's aid for advice and support.

You need to get away from this awful man.

He is quietly terrorising you and your children.

Reach out for support.

Can work support you.

YOU are being massively abused, make NO mistake about that.

Keep posting.

It's jot you it's him, he's a cunt

@BluebellShells

Hearing it’s probably coercion makes me feel like I’m painting a one sided picture. I truly believe if there was a fly on the wall, people would think it’s me. I’m annoying, I talk too much about myself, I don’t listen to his view, I’m over bearing etc

Op, for gods sake, show yourself a little love. You're perfect as you are. If you were with the right person, they would agree. You're just with the wrong person.

I have one like this. DC is younger but his behaviour is already impacting.
I have concluded that the other thing to do is separate. I am getting my ducks in a row. I’m having individual counselling. Looking into finances etc. I also recommend doing The Freedom Programme online and reading “Why does he do it?” By Lundy Bancroft. It’s not comfortable reading when you’re in the relationship but it’s helped me understand how I’ve ended up in my current situation and conclude that I can’t carry on like this. I need to escape for mine and DD’s sake.

It will take time to figure out what you want to do long term OP but in the meantime can I offer some survival tips? The first is the hardest but it's the key to everything so worth making the effort, you need to detach. Stop allowing him to colour everything with his mood and focus on DC and everything else around you, stop making (because he manipulates you into making) him the centre of everything. It's hard because his moods are so oppressive but it's liberating to realise you don't have to sit under the cloud he creates.

Try to stay calm, don't let him push you into that hyper state where you overcompensate for his silence and sulking. Get on with stuff in your usual way and don't let him stop you, essentially act as though he isn't in a mood. So do your tree this weekend and if he wants to sit in a corner and sulk, let him.

I can't stress enough how important that detachment is though, you know now that this isn't you, reread this thread every time you feel that belief wavering and keep the thought at the front of your mind that this is HIM, you are just going about your daily life. He currently has you dancing like a puppet to appease him, to not upset him, to achieve impossible standards when you don't even know what those standards are. Stop dancing, cut the strings and stop caring so much about whether or not he's happy, because he certainly doesn't care whether you are.

The answers to the big questions will come as your confidence increases and you become more sure that you are not to blame for everything but for now you really need to start thinking of yourself again. He has trained you to centre him with his moods and controlling behaviour but that only works while you can't see it, now you can so it's time to stop dancing to his tune.

Oh god OP.
I recognize so much of the behavior.
It’s soul sapping.
It slowly destroys you as a person.

Leave.

He sounds like a full on twat. It's all about him and his moods. Hope you are OK trying to hold all this together. Xxx

OP 3 things really come across to me

• yes he is very emotionally abusive
• you appear determined to take responsibility
• so he’s done a great job of beating you down

It’s not your fault and you can’t fix it. This is on him. He’s a bully and manipulative. Personally I would move on now, before he destroys all your energy and you don’t have the strength to leave. If you want to try counselling do - but I suspect if you get him there he’ll use the space to bully you - anyway, set a time limit on it.

In the meantime, gather all your financial info and go see a solicitor to figure out how you will manage the separation. Don’t tell him until you are ready to act.

If you won’t do it for yourself do it for your kids.

Finally, don’t make this into a tragedy. Your kids will come through this fine. You will be a lot happier on the other side. Upping the drama and hopelessness of a situation is a sign of depression. You might want to consider some CBT to re-frame your thinking.

He sounds like either a sociopath or an abusive dickhead
I'm sorry you aren't able to see that and leave him

Be careful who you choose as a counsellor. If you want a recommendation let me know. Attending marriage counselling with an abuser - especially a manipulative person - can end in a 2 on 1 situation that just helps him grind you down further.

He is grinding you down. Think back to how you used to be before this relationship.

hahahawhatchalaughinat that’s what happened with us. We had sessions with Relate, I felt like the counsellor blamed me for everything and he was the victim. Now I’m having counselling on my own, my counsellor is fantastic. My narrative has become all about him and my counsellor keeps saying “I want to talk about you!”. It’s helping me ‘find myself’ (I hate that term but I do feel quite lost) and work out what I want, find the strength I need to change my situation.

What happems if you stand up for yourself. Tell him youd be delighted if he was more involved and took charge a bit more, but since he refuses to give a straight answer or make a decision, someone has to do it, and he needs to either actually GET involved or leave it to you, but you dont appreciate the passive aggressive guilt trips when you have actively sought his input and he cant make a bloody decision