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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Not sure what to do anymore 😞

112 replies

exono · 25/11/2021 18:06

My husband and I have been together for 11 years, married 4. We have a 2 year old son and he’s basically raised my 14 year old daughter from a previous relationship.
I’ll start off by saying I am NOT perfect. We always had an amazing relationship and sex life, never fought, always were on the same page, etc. and I’m not giving this backstory to justify things I’ve done. Just how things have managed to get where they are..
2.5 years ago when I was 8 months pregnant and not being very intimate due to general uncomfortableness and just being insecure, I caught my husband sneaking off to the bathroom for an hour at a time to shower at ridiculous times of the night. I figured he was just taking care of himself because we hadn’t been too intimate for a few weeks. When it kept happening though I started to get frustrated by it and even got up a few times to listen outside the bathroom door to see if I could confirm that was what was happening.
Well it was; but not in the way I thought.
He came back into the bedroom one night and slid something under the bed before getting back in and didn’t realize I was awake. I checked in the morning to find a dildo. I wasn’t sure what to think as this wasn’t something I was aware he even owned, let alone knew he was into. It really upset me that I didn’t know this about him.
I finally worked up the courage to say something and the only explanation he gave was β€œI just like how it feels, my ex and I used to use them”. This really hurt. I’d shared a bed with him for 9 years and had no idea he was even in to this, and he clearly wasn’t comfortable enough to tell me.
He never spoke on it again, and I didn’t know how, but I felt so betrayed. It didn’t help that he continued to do it, only this time moving to the basement, which is how I knew to go looking. I probably shouldn’t have, but I was curious, and I instantly regretted it. He had a whole collection, all shapes, sizes, some the width and length of my forearm, some with suction cups (explains the showers). There was something about the mental image of my husband engaging in this, down in the basement and in the shower that completely turned me off. I hated feeling like I was kink shaming, but it went much deeper than that.
Our sex life fell off after that. I started building up resentment, and then he’d get frustrated, not communicate that in a healthy way, and I’d only close up more.
And then the pandemic hit, newborn baby, not sure if I had a job still, and him working 10-12 hour days. My mental health was incredibly poor, and so was his. We stopped being us.
I stopped being able to communicate with him and he didn’t give me room to feel like I could anyways; he’d come home in bad moods, complain how stressed, exhausted and β€œunderfucked” he was. He would drop comments about us not being intimate, but they were always snarky or meant to make me feel guilty, which only made me close off more.

Fast forward to last year, I stupidly joined a chatting app. It was innocent at first, just a way to feel like I could vent and communicate, feel like my voice mattered. Until this past March, that’s all it was. But then I met someone, and we hit it off right away. I didn’t even realize I was engaging in an EA until we started getting flirty. He was someone I confided in, and as awful as it was, I vented about my partner too. He was understanding and made me validated in the way I was feeling and it felt good to be heard.
Meanwhile; my husband had given up on trying to be intimate, and we had gone into an autopilot routine for the kids. A few times over the last year he asked about what I was doing on my phone, but never pressed too much. I had mentally checked out.

A few weeks ago he was spying on me and caught me texting my EA, and went ballistic. I was honest, I completely came clean and this opened the door to conversations we should have been having for months.
He had never brought up the kink of his until then, and even admitted he knew that was a turning point in our sex life and ultimately our marriage. And the passive aggressiveness didn’t help either.
I learned he had installed spy cams, but took those down when he realized the quality was shit. He just wanted to know what I was doing on my phone, but I felt so violated when I learned this, and guilty for pushing him to do this.
He had been crying for help for so long but I had mentally checked out. I questioned if how much of it I ignored was because I felt like he was being passive aggressive about it all (a lot of the time he was), or if I genuinely just stopped caring.
We’ve tried to reconcile since. I’ve started therapy, but he gets upset when I go because I don’t open up to him about it after. He’s also called during sessions to make sure I’m actually there.
I’ve made a lot of efforts since we decided to reconcile but sex for me is still off the table right now. I’m just not there yet. He on the other hand is back to making the passive aggressive comments (β€œguess I’ll go dream about my wife having sex with”).
We just went through something huge, and there’s still things that need to be talked about and sex just isn’t at the top of my list right now nor do I even want to right now.
The pressuring me for it though, and getting mad when I turn him down only pushes me further away and he doesn’t get that.
He’s placing so much of his happiness on wether or not we’re being intimate and it doesn’t feel fair at all.
I just don’t know what to do..

OP posts:
tarasmalatarocks · 27/11/2021 21:52

The thing is OP, it doesn’t matter if it’s his particular kink or something that’s a bit out thereβ€” the thing is that in your head you are struggling to feel the same way about him on a sexual level because you’ve now got mental images of this . There seems to be a thing with some people that we should all think each to his own and that we just accept individual kinks if we care about someoneβ€” now that’s quite logical but heads and hearts really aren’t always logical. My experience was that in my head I didn’t have an issue with a virtually daily hard core porn habit the minute I was out the house , mainly masturbating women on webcams (although not paying for it or using private performances) or lesbiansβ€” but you know what, when it was an actual reality and not just a theory in my head I found it a total passion killer with how I felt about DHβ€” and I’ve given it 5 years and I still don’t feel the same. The care is still there, the wanting a physical relationship isn’tβ€” which isn’t a problem to meβ€” but is to my DH. We are all different, so you must do what feels right to you. If you think it will always be with you do yourself a favour and end it now.

RandomMess · 28/11/2021 08:20

Fundamentally he wants you to accept a relationship without true vulnerability and honest communication.

If he had been dishonest about debts or finances or being bisexual or having secret friendships that he invested time in you would still feel betrayed and want to talk it through and he wouldn't.

He shuts down all conversation in such a way he doesn't have to even acknowledge that the deceit was wrong and his sexual and behaviour and lack of emotional support/intimacy since your pregnancy are a huge issue.

As he's now admitted he has always been using his toys then yeah that's an admission that sexually you aren't enough on your own. So sexually you aren't compatible and I think the hurt over that and the deceit aren't going to be overcome.

exono · 28/11/2021 15:47

He did say he was glad I found out. That he had been hoping for years that I’d catch him and force the conversation.
I do understand his trust with it was incredibly damaged after the ex doing that. I’m just having a hard time with his take on this, that him saying the fact that he did this was the catalyst in everything, but in the same breath acting like it shouldn’t matter and I’m this horrible person for seeing him any differently because I made a vow to love him unconditionally.
And then to act like it can all just be swept under the rug, that we’re even. But if I don’t initiate affection, or basically throw myself at him then it’s an issue and I’m the bad guy again for having an EA.
My communication is shit with him, and it has been since I found out, and then especially in the pandemic when I felt like I couldn’t express when I was struggling or needed help- his job, his exhaustion, the stress from all that came first. And then with all this finally coming out and conversations being had, one second he’s understanding, the next he’s playing the blame game.
He asked me to be honest and get all my resentments out on the table- he was so sweet about it. The second I did, he completely shut down and started blaming me again, it was a slap in the face. This was when he moved in the basement, and has since moved back into our room, but I don’t feel like I can be vulnerable and talk about things.
I’ve tried to be more open. Especially after everything, I’ve felt so insecure myself too, and I’ve questioned a few things. I saw that he had Snapchat on his phone while he was swiping so I asked about it and he said it came with an update and opened it and it was just the log in screen. He has a really old android though and I’ve never heard of an app like that coming with an update. I just didn’t believe it. So I snooped on a tablet of his and it’s not even in the download list which I thought was weird.
What I did see was Tinder, Kik, Moco (a chatting app), camfrog (video chat room app). They aren’t recent, and I don’t think within the past two years, but definitely since we’ve been together. I wish I could see the download dates, but it only lists them in order of how recently they were downloaded.
I don’t even know if it’s worth bringing up. But this is just adding on to everything.

OP posts:
RandomMess · 28/11/2021 15:56

There doesn't seem to be anything to salvage does there.

He wants it all his way. He can have secrets and use those apps and it should all be forgivable but your EA isn't and you should be throwing yourself at him for sex Confused

If you can't talk honestly how is it ever going to change? Sex on those terms in a long term relationship is dire IME.

Nedclarity · 28/11/2021 22:35

He has downloaded those apps but insists your EA (which is more recent) is the main issue?

I don’t blame you one but for having an EA. Him not engaging in couples counselling would be a deal breaker for me. I think he’s gaslighting you.

exono · 29/11/2021 02:25

He has no idea I know about the apps. I only found them yesterday and I have no idea how to bring it up to him. I know he’s going to be upset that I snooped, and turn it all around on me with the EA.
Before he moved in the basement, he had asked me to be honest with him about any resentments I had, and when I was, he completely lost it on me, didn’t address any of my concerns, and instead blamed me with the EA. It was a slap in the face. I’ve been hesitant to bring anything up to him since. Now, after seeing those apps yesterday, I want to bring it up, but I know it’ll not only backfire, but he probably won’t be honest.
There’s one app in particular that I knew he used to use the desktop version of it before we got together. I remember seeing it on his computer when he left it open when we first started hooking up. It was a video chat dating app. I never worried about it because once we were official, he wasn’t using it anymore.
That specific app jumped out at me because I recognized the name as the one he used to use immediately. There’s no way to tell specifically when he downloaded it, but it was definitely after we were already together. He didn’t get an actual smartphone until we were living together 10 years ago.

OP posts:
Fairylights25 · 29/11/2021 07:50

OP what more do you need to find out before realising he really is not the man you thought he was? He never stopped using the apps, has continued with some very questionable sexual habits that he did not share with you for over a decade, and for all you know (and the most likely scenario) this is just the tip of the iceberg. Dishonest behaviour makes it unlikely. The fact he 'pesters' you to for sex over and above sorting out the very big problems and issues in your marriage tells you everything you need to know.

I am sorry but you need to get legal advice and consider your next move, because I honestly don't think anything can be salvaged, and I don't think he has any intention whatsoever of stopping what he does.

HarrisonStickle · 29/11/2021 15:15

I know he’s going to be upset that I snooped, and turn it all around on me with the EA.

What do you want to happen after you tell him you've seen the apps?

This relationship is dead, OP, let go.

Lifewith · 29/11/2021 17:41

He's gaslighting the hell out of you and is abusive. The whole dildo thing is a massive red flag, which I said at the beginning of this thread and the more you write OP I stand by. Despite other posters jumping on me about that (or one other particular poster)

Please please get some support. Proper support. Mumsnet won't cut it, you need professional therapeutic and legal advice.

SpidersAreShitheads · 30/11/2021 00:54

I think some of the responses on here are very much being influenced by the sexes involved here.

A different scenario:

Man can't perform sexually due to - let's say a bad back. No sexual intimacy for weeks.

Wife uses sex toys in private to masturbate for sexual gratification.

Man suspects she's masturbating and snoops to find out more. Finds her collection of sex toys and is utterly disgusted by the idea that she masturbates. Feels repulsed and turned off sexually.

Man is physically fit again but can't get the idea of his wife masturbating with sex toys out of his head, and can't bring himself to engage in sexual contact.

Wife admits that she's always used sex toys privately. Man said she should have told him exactly what she does during masturbation from the start and not been so secretive to use sex toys when she's on her own.

Man begins an emotional affair with a woman after deliberately joining a "chat app".

^^In that scenario there would be absolute OUTRAGE that a man was telling a woman that she MUST tell him how she likes to masturbate and the sex toys she uses. Everyone would agree that the woman is entitled to masturbate however she wants in private, and on her own. They would also be slating the man for starting an emotional affair, while simultaneously being unable to work on his relationship because he was so "repulsed" by the idea of his wife using sex toys to masturbate.

He is allowed privacy. He does not have to divulge his personal, private sexual preferences - he is allowed to use sex toys by himself in private while he masturbates. Judging him for what he enjoys when he is on his own is unfair - but I suspect a throwaway comment somewhere along the line suggested that this would be your response, hence he kept it quiet.

The spy cameras as the zooming in on your phone screen in a secret video - again, if the roles were reversed and a man was having an affair, I think you'd find most people on here cheering her on. I've seen suggestions of tracker devices in his car, installing spyware on his phone etc. You were having an affair, he suspected it and did some DIY detective work to get to the bottom of it. It's no different than many women here have been celebrated for doing. When you're not honest with a partner, many revert to subversive tactics to find out the truth - and many people on here suggest never confronting the partner until you have "gathered the evidence".

But despite all of this, he's also not the innocent victim. The badgering for sex, the constant comments, the refusal to go to counselling etc - he sounds like hard work. Being pestered for sex is an enormous turn off. You've acted appallingly but he doesn't sound great either. Your last comment about finding chat/dating apps - maybe he was so suspicious because he's been up to no good himself in the past? I can't see there's any relationship to salvage here.

Get some legal advice about where you stand financially and seriously consider separately. This isn't making either of you happy and there doesn't seem to be any trust/love/respect on either side.

turnaroundtime · 30/11/2021 13:46

@SpidersAreShitheads I totally agree

Monalotmoore · 01/12/2021 17:47

I'd agree too. I think you really need to ask him and his Rubber Roommates to move out and start preparing to co parent separately. There's nothing to salvage here.

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