"But we took you to stately homes"... a thread for adult children of abusive families

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This thread is a follow up to "My mother has cut me out of her life - long sorry" because we reached the end of the thread life.

I originally posted on that thread to say that my mother had blamed me for something that was in fact her fault, called me a liar, got the rest of the family to gang up on me and then blamed me for splitting up the family.

It generated a huge amount of interest from a number of women who, like me, had grown up in an abusive, or "toxic" family environment where we had been the scapegoat or the dustbin for our parents to dump their own unresolved difficulties. My mother, like all our mothers, has refused to apologise for what she has done and many of us have cut ties with our families in order to recover our lost selves and self-esteem.

Sorry, I didn't mean it to sound like other siblings reject their siblings because they weren'T loved enough by them . It came out wrong, I just wanted to say why I think my brothers seem to want to reject me and hate me, which would be the normal pattern in a toxic family, but can't seem to. And I think its because I was the mother in their life, while our real mother got on with her "career"

dad was a drinker, never allowed to say alocholic as he went to work everyday. but he didn't come home until the pubs were shut.

mum started divorce proceedings the year before I was born, and went back to him, so all through my childhood when they were fighting (lots of DV) I'd hear, I should have carried on with that divorce - which in my childs mind meant I wouldn't have been born, did that mean she didn't want me ? That was never clarified, when I asked I just got told to stop being stupid.

mum used to work evenings, although it was a factory so she could have worked days and been there in the evening, so from I was 4 years of age until I was 18 - I'd get home from school, mum would leave, dad would be in the pub and I'd be left with my sisters, who used to threaten me, beat me and generally resented having to look after me.

spent may a lonely night sitting in the window watching the world passing by.

mum used to tell me why I shouldn't play with other kids, they didn't really like me, they were only using me, as an adult i don't have a single friend from my childhood, the two I have I met as an adult and wouldn't let my mum interfere, with one of them she was still telling me how she wasn't a real friend 15 years after we'd become friends.

to this day i still don't know why she didn't work days, asked my "favoured" sister about it, she doesn't know and has never thought about it.

I also realised that it wasn't normal for dad to sleep in the bed, and mum to sleep on the couch covered by coats. Nor for mum and dad to fight every night, nor to be in bed shaking because you can hear the fight going on and bodies hitting walls.

i think ours was generally a poor situation for all involved, including my mum.

As an adult I can look back and think what she went through, and although she'd never have admitted to it, she made mistakes, she would say she did the best she could and she probably did.

me and the "favoured" sister are really very close, and we have a good relationship.

I really feel sorry for my eldest sister as I think out of us all she is the one most like mum, and she can't see it.

Hi Mitfordsisters

Better...yes! I'll say more in update post, that will feel theraputic I already know. How about your story? It helps with us supporting you if we know your background, we can possibly offer insights that you have not seen yet (think wood for trees!) And when I say 'we' I mean everyone who comes on this thread...not the royal 'we'

Hi Jerryernie, good to see you here. Try this link to see if any of the personality disorders (PD) match your mothers behaviour. It is possible to mix and match them too, my mother seems to be Narsisstic PD and Borderline PD. And I seem to be a combination of 4! However even 'normal' people can tick some of the boxes. Its more to do with consistant behaviour patterns over time...I think...explains better on the link. Sorry to hear of your orphaning. Would you like to say more about your childhood?

Hi Smithfield, poor you, hope you get well soon and your getting plenty of hot soup and chocolate in bed! Interesting what you put about how we dealt with the abuse. I lived in a fantasy world and partially shut down until 16, then it all got so painful I just did a complete emotional shutdown and not felt much since, neither happiness or unhappiness. V numb and v frustrating to break down the walls.

Hi Oneplusone, I did not want a dd either. More chance of repeating what happened to me as a child. Is this universal with us adult children? We don't want dd's? I so agree with what Smithfield has said re portal to painful childhood feelings. Only you can know if that is right, but it 'feels' right to me...as in if I get v close to my dd or see her doing something amazing and thinking all that, I just well up. And can I just highlight something you said that says to me that you really do love her?

"I know therefore that already in my DD's short life i have already caused some damage and that knowledge is breaking my heart. The only way as adults we can overcome our past is to revisit it on an emotional level but how can my DD do that, she is only 4?"

That is a loving mother speaking.

You may not be able to feel it, but you do care enough to change and to understand the damage that could have been done. Like someone else said, if only our mothers could have done that for us, then we would be with them now, or at least in contact mending our relationship. And according to one book I read if they have a good relationship with one parent it can make up for something lacking in the other parent. So the unconditional love your dh is lucky enough to have could well have carried her through her first year. Don't beat yourself up about her first 4 years, make the next 4 + years count. Numbness of feeling is hard, at times I feel nothing for my dd and wonder if I do love her, then I see her doing something amazing and I get some feeling back, briefly. But I have had 3.5 yrs of therapy to get this far...dd is 20mths. You know you are supported here on this thread, keep leaning on us and read books, speak to a therapist, you will be making a difference to your life and your dd. And if you feel you cannot cope with more pain and the moment, you do right to listen to that feeling and waiting for it to receed (sp) before you carry on. BTW I think your incredibly brave to post what you did on the other thread and here. It must have taken alot of self realisation and courage to post.

Hi Cargirl, local nuthouse?...how did you get there? Something I thought I would end up doing one day trying to match my reality to my parents reality. I say its just like wondering if you the sane person in a madhouse or the other way round? V confusing. Got to say I cheated on the wedding...we eloped

Hi Bearsmom, good progress! Like the pending folder You sound much happier/in control, what book have you been reading?

Hi Mrs Weasley, I got the favoured thing, always equal financially, but emotionally it was a world of difference to how we were treated. Must have been horrid for it to openly admitted tho...rather callous of a mother to do that.

Hi Danae, how are you today? I put all presents and cards for dd in the loft. I'm waiting till I come across a good answer as I work through my therapy. Inspiration has not struck as yet. My dh says throw them away. At the end of the day they are ours to open I suppose, as our dd's are incapable of opening/understanding what is in them at their age.

Hi Sakura, going to re read your post, lot to take in and I've been typing for an hour now!! Did like your quote from book. Hope your well, are you over here soon for xmas?

And to all newbies post your full stories if you feel like it, it all adds to a huge bank of knowledge and understanding and support for us all. Really quite valuable and it validates all our experiences which is one of the most helpful things I've experienced on here and reading books.

So pleased you have found us.

I'm only an outpatient at the local nuthouse, fortunately I've never been so bad that anyone has asked me to be admitted! From what I know being an inpatient can often make you worse not better!

Hi everyone, I have my friend to stay atm, keep sneaking on here to catch up, but DH says I'm being rude to her so will be back later for a proper catch up .

Oneplusone, I'm so glad you have found comfort in anything I have said and I think you are amazing and courageous to even admit to yourself let alone anyone else that you have shortcomings in your relationship with your DD. Although I see similarities in my mother's relationship with me (she too found me interesting until I needed something from her emotionally)even now, years on, she cannot and will not admit that she did me any harm.

The fact that you are referring to your DD as "your darling daughter" brings tears to my eyes because if my mother had even an ounce of your insight, compassion and humility I would be talking to her now instead of you guys.

I in all honesty do not think you have caused your daughter any harm that can't be put right. Even now, 40 years on, if my mother was able to just say to me what you have said to us ie that she knows she didn't emotionally support me the way I deserved it would change so much for me, because I was always led to believe (and she is STILL saying it) that I was and am too needy and demanding, and it is me that needed too much, not her that didn't give enough. You are VERY different from her.

And remember that NONE of us are perfect mothers. I for instance am aware that there are other mothers who spend far more time teaching and playing with their children than I do (mine watch far to much TV and I know I should be doing more speech therapy with DS1 and spending less time on here) but we all have our own needs and limitations. I am good at the emotional stuff but my mother spent far more time, I know, teaching me to read, etc than I do with mine, because that was the stuff she was interested in and I do find it tiring. There. I've said it now. But I will admit and put my hands up to that. DS1 has been trying to get me to read to him for the last 10 mins and I have ignored him. So I am not perfect, nor are you, nor are any of us. But unlike us, my mother won't admit she is human. She is perfect and I am far from it. And that is that.

Can a coward join?? I have been watching your thread for ages and really wanted to post but so worried my mum would figure me out form all my posts- so Have name changed is that allowed?

My childhood wasn't as bad as some of yours but I don't have happy memories. My mum has completely different memory of the past and actually still doesn't live in reality. She has always been lazy as far back as I can remember she used to sleep all day on the sofa whilst me and my siblings went out to play. Both mum and Dad had very short tempers and were very inconsistent in there punishments. My Dad played mind games with me. I learned independence at an early age. We fended for ourselves at lunch and sometimes begged for someone to cook dinner. We wern't kept clean and tidy only for school. I used to have nightmares about my parents -that they left me places alone or they would be lining us up to beat us. They laughed at my mistakes and pointed them out to everyone making me feel so small. They constantly blamed me for everything that goes wrong even things that my siblings had done. I went through a stage of trying so hard to please but realised it was pointless when I cleaned the house and was punished for it. My mum called me names like bitch and cow and kicked me out several times in my teenage years for the most insignificant things, only to say she didn't mean it later that day. I seriously think she has some sort of mental health issue. She is still explosive and poisonous and very bitter but she thinks our family our close when we dont even know each others phone numbers. The weird thing is she has tried to keep up such a perfect family persona and puts on an act to everyone but I pretty sure people see through it.

Sorry my posts a bit muddled

Hi ally, thanks. NO I'm not coming back this year. I was going to- could just about manage it with the money, but in the end I just remembered how awful it was last time I came and how vulnerable I was. And I've got DD to think about. I'd love to show her to my brothers again, but TBH, its not worth the money and time because I've got nowhere to stay. I'd have to stay at a b&b, rent a car, and generally just spend a lot more than a person would if they had a normal family who would pick them up at the airport, offer them bed and board and most importantly, a warm welcome!!

How's things with you? I'm glad we can laugh on here about the cat, but its still really unhinged stuff isn't it. Because she's putting you back in your place as a child and not acknowledging your adult world where cats don't send presents to people, not to mention thrashing down your boundaries! You sound really good though in your last post. Any worries about how things will pan out as Christmas approaches this week? HOw's your DD too? OUrs are not too different in age (mine will be 15 months at Christmas) Maybe our paths will cross and we will meet someday at a mumsnet fab and glam tour, who knows!

crossed post with you shameful (please change your name ! Everyone starts off their stories usually with "my story isn't as bad as anyone elses", then as the thread goes on we find (and that person discovers too) that it actually was as bad as that. Often worse as they begin to remember and actually feel the buried pain.

I got 'disowned' almost 5 months ago. Cast out like yesterdays newspaper.

Does anyone have any tips on getting thru the first Xmas alone?
I have no sibs, no rellies, and no close friends. Just me and the 2 dd's.

I'm not sure how I'm going to cope.

Thanks for the kind words Ally. My sister, me and a friend of mine (who's a clinical psychologist) are definitely sure she has 4 of the personality disorders. It was actually a relief to make the connection. We always knew my mother wasn't normal and it kind of helped to put a diagnosis to it. Remember that with personality disorders, the person cannot be helped. We've spent all our life making excuses for her but at the end of the day she will never change. She's poison to be around (I know that sounds harsh) but we're better off without her. Sorry, I'm not an orphan but was saying that I feel like one without a mother or father around! I would talk more about my childhood but there's so much I wouldn't know where to begin. My sister's had counsellimg over it and feels alot better, but I don't really want to drag it all up. I don't know what I want to achieve at the end of it?

been thinking about this more today according to my mum my first boyfriend was only going out with me to cover up the fact he was gay - he wasn't.

and when my eldest sister was supporting me through a bad patch with my mum and said I could go and live with her, she was only doing that to get back at my mum, and to get money off me because she really hated me, don't I remember her calling me a brat all the time when i was younger

Just catching up a bit now. Thanks Ally for copying the "confrontation" post over and for your congrats (can I have another blue ribbon trophy please? - said in Monica-from-Friends whiny voice).

I was just saying to my friend today that actually the more I stay in "my adult" the more mad my mother seems to get. It's almost as if she made me the crazy emotional wreck but now that I no longer accept that role being projected onto me she is now fulfiling her own truly crazy destiny...

Hi am feeling better today health wise (emotionally bit of a mess)
'Purple one' no suggestions as my first xmas too but we can hold hands if you like.
Also would be really interested to hear your story.

Feel completely lost today and I cant even verbalise why. Just started to write and then deleted it, because I cant seem to get my thoughts out in a competent manner. I end up writing details like 'then they did this, and I did that' and 'they said this so I said that.' In otherwords i become like a child seeking re-assurance that I should feel anger or sadness or pain, and that it really is justified and Im not just an emotional fuckwit after all.

Yes Ive had contact of sorts, had to drop presents for my db over at sil parents. You'd think only sil parents ffs yet of course just hearing talk of what my parents (probably more so my dad atm) are doing gets to me. Why? Was so flustered before leaving i burnt my hand on the iron!I came away feeling like it really is me.Im the odd one out not them iyswim.

oneplus- from what you said we do have a lot in common I think. Its like a huge jigsaw puzzle, or a shattered mirror isnt it? It often feels like Im scrambling around trying to fit the pieces (of my childhood) back together in order to make sense of it all. I hope to god one day i will and will be able to see a clear picture or a clear image of who I really am looking back at me.
oneplusone-If you'd asked even a year ago I would have said, Im closer to my dad I don't get on with my mother, we clash but yes Im a daddy's girl. Admittedly I did do some work on my relationship with my mum six or seven years ago, so maybe thats why I am where I am now with it all...the focus seems to have shiftrd to my dad (but im not even sure of this atm).I went into counselling seven years because I'd come out of an abusive relationship, and ended up talking about a whole other abusive relationship....i.e; the one with my mother. I walked out of the counselling after 6-7 months because it was too painful, so I think there is still unfinished business there.I believe I gravitated toward my father from a very young age, beacause i got 'nothing' from my mother. I got little more than nothing from my father, but as a child I guess I made the tally and thought Hey, if its between something and nothing, guess I'll take something.
I think also because he'd cry and say sorry after he'd abused me I took that as love, intense love in fact.
So til now daddy could do no wrong. Now its like my eyes have opened and I realised he was just as brutal. He's also very controlling (as is my mother), his weapon is money. He metres it out unevenly and as all four of us have come to equate money with love, we are clearly shown who is and isnt in favour. Since mum and dad divorced it is easier to see just how much power he really has. He is like the sun and all of four of us are like the planets revolving around the sun, begging for the light to shine on them. Well of course we all do when there is nothing but svere frost from my mother. Sorry once I got going there I couldnt stop . Despite all this current anger toward my dad deep down I know that my mum is still pivotal in all of this. I still have unfinished business there too.
And I'm typing with one finger due to burn injury lol.
So back to my semblance of a point oneplusone, You did perhaps 'defect' to daddy because your mum couldn't deliver the basic needs any child requires...warmth, love, nurture. So yes I'd imagine somewhere in the depths of you is a huge amount of hurt and pain you are carrying from your 'first' abandonement. |This came long 'before' the cruelest blow of all. Your 'dads' abandonement due to his breakdown. I think my mum was oftentimes jelous of my fierce attachment to my dad and it often left me out in the cold IYKWIM.
oneplusone -you deserve a huge congratulations at coming 'this' far with your own jigsaw. A painful one it must have been to put together. Be kind to yourself,take your time, you are incredibly strong and brave and should mark 'pages' words, re your dd, she is spot on. If my mum put her arms around me now and said, sorry, I would feel the weight lift from my shoulders...

sakura- your mother sounds very similar to mine, (although I think your mother's physical abuse was far worse ) I think they are both very controlling women. I know what you mean about them bulking at our happiness. My mother used to emotionally withdraw, or become incredibly nasty verbally whenever I was about to go off and do something I was excited about. 3 out of four of us have got married recently and she has caused stress, friction and done her best to all but ruin each wedding. She always makes a great deal of disliking our partners?? I am reading currently 'If you had controlling parents' by Dan Neuharth PHD. Thats where I got that concept from that I mentioned to you in the last thread.

Cargirl-wanted to say what an incredibly brave woman you are. you sound like you have had a hell of a lot to deal with. I would imagine...cos I can only imagine...that your parents would absolutely be more difficult to forgive, after all they were the ones who should have been protecting you. Do you think you 'have to' forgive them to get resolution?

Elfsmum- I really related to your story regarding your parents fighting. Mine fought all the time. it often got physical and I used to feel my stomach churn everytime it started. your mum also sounds very bitter, as was mine. She took all her anger and bitterness out on us, especially me. i suspect yours did too.

Danae- I was so by your mums comment re your dd that i have to mention it. Im sure this is not very mature of me but she sounds like a really bloody awful woman and makes me grrrrr.

Hello to anyone Ive missed

And Pages- hello and congratulations- re your current attitude to your mum. Again Im not going to be very mature in saying how sanctimonious she sounds. You have shown us what can be achieved if we put in some hard work. Thankyou

I agree with what bearsomom says about forgiveness. It was Susan Forward indeed who said that you don't have to forgive to heal - in fact the contrary worked IME. As soon as I gave up trying to understand and forgive my mother I was able to get in touch with my true feelings, get angry, stick up for myself, etc.. Bearsomom, progress indeed. Blue ribbon trophy to YOU .

Cargirl, I think it's different if they accept responsibility and seek your forgiveness. I would probably forgive anyone in those circumstances.

Also wanted to add...to my awfully long post! OOps.
came accross a really good idea in the book I mentioned to Sakura. It's about deciding to detach emotionally from either or both parents, by decisively naming a day and declaring that day as independence day (bit american I know) So I'm thinking of calling Nov 26th my independence day, makes it feel quite definate IYSWIM.

Hi all, have been popping in all day to read the latest posts but haven't been able to post myself til now. I think I'm totally addicted to this thread, I haven't even looked at any other threads since I found this one!

Danae, thanks for your comments yesterday, they mean a lot. I know what you mean about envy, or perhaps not envy but wistfulness at my DD's relationship with my DH, her father. He adores her and she adores him and he would never harm her in any way. I am sure I had a good relationship with my dad until i was around 11 at which time he had his mental breakdown as i've mentioned previously and once the abuse started our relationship broke down completely, any bond that had been there was broken completely. Perhaps it could have been repaired if he had apologised for what he did, but he refused to even talk about the past whenever i brought it up (usually when i wanted to explain why i was always rude and snappy with him) and always told me i should just forget about the past. Of course he wanted me to forget it as it showed him in such an appalling light.

Sakura, yes, your mother has behaved confusingly and inconsistently, that's what makes the whole thing so much harder, when the abusive parents seem to be genuinely nice and caring at times which both my parents have been at times. I strongly feel now that although my mum is now 62, emotionally she is still just a child and that's why she always runs away from any problems and was so scared of my bullying dad, she was behaving exactly as a child would in those situations. I became her parent, standing up for her and myself and my younger sisters against my dad. Your quote from the Continuum Concept seems to describe my situation very well. i think my mother needed a parent and she forced me into that role as she refused or was unable to take on the role herself. Once i was the parent, she was then able to be a far better mother to my 2 younger sisters than she was to me as i had somehow fulfilled the unmet need in her.

I've almost been working this out as i type IYKWIM (i guess that's why writing things out is such therapy, it seems to enable your mind to work things out much better than just sitting and thinking) but reading back what i have just written makes so much sense.

Growing up i always felt excluded and left out, my mum and 2 sisters were always going off together and doing things; i was never asked to join in or included or involved and i always felt so hurt and upset but never said anything, just acted tough like i didn't care. I can see now that my mum not only cast me in the role of parent, she took my place as one of the siblings. I always felt like the odd one out as if I simply wasn't part of the family and seen from my new perspective, it all makes sense. I always used to think when growing up that for my dad, it must almost feel like he has 4 children instead of 3 with my mum being the 4th child.

I don't know enough about my mum's childhood to really know why she never grew up but i don't think it's a coincidence that my cousin about 10 years ago did exactly what i have done ie cut off my parents to her parents. Her mum is my mum's sister, and she was also married to a nasty alcoholic bully. There was clearly something wrong in their family but as my mum is not very talkative i know very little about her family nor ideed what on earth goes on in my mum's head if anything. My dad is much easier to figure out as he doesn't hold back in the least in telling you what he thinks about everything.

Sorry to go on so much, having looked at the thread throughout the day my mind starts racing and processing what you all have said and it's all coming out now.

Ally90, thank you so much for your post and i do agree with what you say about the other parent being able to somehow 'make up' for what i could not give my DD in her earliest years and that does give me some comfort.

Pages, thank you also for your post, and i do sincerely hope that any damage i have caused can be outweighed by what i am now able to give my DD as i am now not acting unconsciously but with great awareness.

Smithfield thank you for your comments and i do think we have a lot in common. I was so focussed on what my dad had done i nearly overlooked my mum but like you i now think she was actually pivotal too in our 'family drama'. I think she also let down my dad as she didn't seek help for him when he had his mental breakdown and if she had done so i feel our lives would have been so different.

I think i have talked for long enough now, although i could probably go on for hours yet, but I just want to say hello and welcome to all the new posters, just by reading this thread you are taking a positve step towards a happier and more peaceful future.

my main memories of my childhood are unhappy ones. i grew up thinking i was generally naughty, with very low self esteem because my mother lost her temper constantly, and lashed out at the smallest thing, physically and verbally. Funny thing is i've kind of been telling myself that this was normal all these years, or just a natural way for a family of 4 (as we were then) to behave around one another. Looking back i just don't think she had any self control about hitting us repeatedly. Or my father when he used to pour freezing pans of water over us. It didn't occur to me at the time that this was abuse, but looking back i can't see what else it could have been. We don't talk about these things now. its' all been swept under the carpet, and we generally get on ok. but reading the other posts here has sparked certain memories i just need to get off my chest. plus i have a question mark over one of the babysitters we were left with, something i have weird memories of that i'm too scared to deal with.

Oneplusone, your daughter is still very young and much of the 'damage' will be reversable. Young children who are taken out of abusive families and placed with attentive and affectionate ones quickly recover.

It just breaks my heart to think that she will perhaps see how you and your son interact and feel bereft in some way. I hope you can treat them with equal affection, I really do, and that you can find some peace within yourself.

Have you ever tried or thought of anti-depressants? If you have inherited a personality problem from your mother, AD's can help with this.

Hi Monkeytrousers, thank you for your reassurance, that is true and it makes me feel better.

What you say about my DD noticing my closeness with DS also breaks my heart. I hope she doesn't notice but i think she must. Circumstances were so different when DS was born, me and DH had been married 6 years by then whereas with DD we had been married 3, and our relationship was a lot stronger when DS was born, and i think perhaps things like that contributed to my having more feelings inside towards DS.

But the amazing thing is that somehow since simply admitting to my feelings on this thread those same feelings seem to have already changed and i am seeing my DD in a new light. I feel much much more positive about my relationship with her and am blaming myself less for how things were with her at the beginning.

I haven't thought of AD's, i know i'm not depressed, in fact since finding this thread i have felt my confidence and self esteem go up considerably and i just feel so much happier knowing i'm not alone in all this.

Hi, brandyandmincepies, welcome, you are in the right place, take strength from everyone on here who are on the same path as you. x

oneplusone- you just triggered something for me in your previous post. I dont think I'd linked into what you had picked up from sakuras post on the the continuum concept.

It suddenly dawned on me that my mother 'does' also wants to be mothered herself. Thats why she's not been able to mother me. I know it should maybe seem obvious but hasn't been til now.
The only thing I dont get is how she can also be so controlling at the same time?? Any views would be welcome whilst I ponder this one myself.

Hi all.

I also have had a difficult relationship with my mother and father. I hadn't spoken to either for years and years but got a call about 2 months ago from my aunt telling me that my mother was seriously ill. Its a long story, but basically we thought it might be terminal, and as much as I don't like her and feel let down by her I didn't want to turn my back on her at her darkest time, so I went to see her. I have been to see her 3 times, staying with my aunt each time and just seeing my mother for a few hours at a time.

I told her I didn't want to discuss anything that had happened in the past. I have come to an understanding that there is not one 'truth' and that everyone has their own version. Her version of my childhood is very different to mine, and thats just the way it is.

Its been a nightmare seeing her again - she has told me in detail about how i f-ed up my life, she has hit and sworn at the nurses in hospital and probably the most disturbing... she was hallucinating that we were back when I was a child and my father was hitting us. She was shouting and cowering and it transported me right back there too.

There have been some good points about it too - I have been seeing my aunt and uncle and cousins and its a slightly different relationship now we are all adults and having a good laugh. I also found out a few more things about my childhood that made things a bit clearer.

Of course, I have also found out some more bad stuff - like the fact that father also abused two other little girls. Which is horrible because I made the decision not to go to the police to protect myself from further hurt, but if I had, then maybe I could have stopped it happening to them? Lots to think about.....

Now it seems that she may end up being OK - do I go back to no contact? Have to say, its been nice with me being in control - very different to how it was before.

Purple one - I really feel for you. How about making up new 'traditions' at Christmas this year? Like having a big yummy roast ham on Boxing Day, or signing along to Christmasy songs on Christmas morning? Whatever floats your boat - sure the kids can come up with some fun ideas!

You are spending a special time with the people you care most about and you don't have to worry about any of the crap that comes with your family -so it really is a time for celebration!

Look after yourself.

Big hugs to everyone.

xxx.

Duke and Smithfield...thankyou. I am in tears reading all of this.
I lurked a lot on the other thread. Not sure what to say in regards to my story, but my mum and my father all have their own issues and I'm the one who has to suffer.
There's lots that has gone on over the years, and plenty that has stuck in my mind, which totally differs from my parents recollections. If I remember it, it must've happened right?
I had to get me and the two dd's out of DV and move 250 miles back 'home' cos my dad told me to go 'f myself.
I rememeber all the talk of me being put into care at 12, cos I got caught shoplifting with a schoolfriend. A suicide attempt at 15, and I remember my dad kicking me in the back, my mum crying and him telling her to 'leave the bitch there to die'.

She had walked out of my house twice this year, without even a goodbye. The last time I asked her not to smoke in here and she deliberately lit up...we had words and we've not spoken since. Not even a word from my father either. It has transpired that my father and dd1 have been texting in secret...him offloading onto a 12 yr old about how 'nanny won't let him pick the phone up'. PATHETIC. and it shouldn't really be for a 12 year old to hear.

I called a family meeting last month for me and dd1 and dd2...all the parents poison spilled out of their little mouths about mummy this and mummy that, she's to blame for this that and the other. DD's also heard a few choice things that LO's shouldn't really hear AT ALL.

Was reasearching some family history stuff up on t'net last week and up pops an obituary...for my cousin! Yet noone ever thought of sending me a note, or a quick text and give me the option of being at the funeral. I've read Toxic parents 3 times over, there's always little bits that I miss each time.

Sorry for ranting, it's good to be here. x x

Duke,
you mentioned two other little girls that were abused. Please know that women who have been abused (in any way) as a child do tend to feel huge feelings of responsibility for other people. This is because our parents let us believe that things were our fault when they weren't. SO now we tend to go round our adult lives trying to make everything allright for others and believing we are responsible for other people's happiness. You did not abuse those little girls, and it was not your fault they were. Your father did that, not you, so please don't think too much about whether you could have stopped it if you went to the police. You were a frightened little girl, not an adult and you have no responsibility for the outcome or for what your father did!
that is amazing about the hallucinating, but must have been so frightening, transporting you back there. It would be nice to feel that in some way your mother was showing some signs of remorse or guilt by re-visiting the situation in front of you. It doesn't really help you much though, because the memory of course is about her and how she felt in that situation, rather than about you.

Smithfield and oneplusone,

I read about the phenomenon you're talking abotu :the parental child. I thought originally that it mean the child just looked after the parent as a type of carer, but looking deeper into it, that is exactly what I was even though my mother had a professional career, was extremely domineering and looked like a capable adult. The telling thing is that I was always available to listen to her problems and I was always focused on her life. I used to advise her about work decisions and have one memory of stroking her head after she'd fallen out with (yet another) person from my ballet class. I was a really nurturing "mother" to her and thats why she flipped when I wanted to get married. Who would want to lose their mother. It must be a real mind f*ck for her that I can have children and that I have a DD. I mean she's^ the child, not me, so I have no business going ahead and having children of my own! What am I thinking? What a betrayal! And so she feels like I've betrayed her like a mother, except she has forgotten along the way that I'm the child.
Oneplusone, I think its really insightful of you to connect the parental child phenomenon with your isolation as a child. Yes it sounds about right- that your mother cast you as the responsible "parent" of the women and this helped her emotionally. Incredibly hurtful though.

Purpleone to hear your story. Yes, if you've remembered it then its happened. My father shocked me when he first told me that he'd never been abusive. Instead of the apology I expected, he was denying it outright. I said to him" OHmy GOd, I didn't expect an apology, but I didn't expect you to deny it." But he continued to say I'd remembered it wrong. In fact he looked at me with pity and said "Its so sad, Sakura", meaning that its so sad that I have such a twisted imagination about my childhood when they did nothing but take me to stately homes.
so as a result I can'T be in contact with him. My mother just thinks I was born with mental problems "a special child" who arrived to cause problems to her perfect world.

There is such a thing as false memory, but that is often something that is promoted by the wives of men who have been acused of abuse. There is a website on it, and the wives and the accused abusers put their (unconvincing) case forward for false memory. The most interesting thing is that when they refer to the adult child who was abused, they use their first name, Mary, SAndra, but if they refer to the abuser and wife, they use their Sirname Mr Smith etc, thereby reinforcing the "reality" that the abused person is just a child and the abusers arer the only "proper" adults in all of this.

Hi-
Congratulations Ally-should we create a Stately Home Claret Jug for the ultimate success award?
Smithfield- get well soon. Try some lemon honey tea - just lemon & honey in hot water-no actual tea. DD is coming down with a chest cold so I am bracing myself as is the whole family.

I have made some progress today and would like to share it- with some background.
My mom was emotionally not available to me growing up and I was not taught any social skills. However, I am close with dd, I am a SAHM and perhaps over compensate with a lot of attention rather than less.

I was/am an over achiever, but with the void of social skills, professional success was impossible. I chose a field that unknown to me required social skills in spades-black belt level in office politics from all directions. I was toast; physical illness from the stress (irritable bowel and constant sinus infections), and professional paranoia of litigation if I forgot something was too much for me. The decision to be SAHM was a very easy one to make. While sometimes sad at the lost career, I have not regretted choosing to invest my time in dc or dh (18th Anniversary today -I am so thankful for dh) and I am healthy.

My previous recent posts discussed my grief for my mom when dd was born, rather than when ds was born (first). She died 16 years before dd was born, grief has an amazing shelf life. The 'portal to my own childhood pain' is the missing piece of the puzzle. Thank you, I have been thinking about this for years but the answer just didn't seem complete. While grief may have been a true part of my emotional stress at that time - I remember saying out loud that it wasn't fair that mom wasn't there to help me. But concern for my relationship with my own daughter was trying to surface in my mind because I too thought I'd be a better mom to boys (mistakenly thought because I was a tom-boy in my youth rather than having endured the emotional neglect from my mom/parents). I don't think I was able to fully think about it very deeply because I was basically the sole care giver for two dc 18 months apart and was very deep into the fog of exhaustion. Dh helped when he could, but his job required long hours of research/development which I understood.

I never until recently-MN in fact and Older Sister's validation- thought my childhood was painful. I was always told it was 'just me' for being frustrated and 'quit being so sensitive all the time'...so finally I believed it was just me and then eventually I forgave myself for being me, and that was liberating. But I see now that Middle Sister (matriarchal NPD ) promoted this perception because she needs me to be (and believe that I am) the less than perfect one to distract from her own (now known to be larger) flaws. She does it to Oldest Sister, too. She was emotionally favored by mom over Oldest Sister and I, and I guess she still needs to guard her position as the 'dominate' powerful one through the narcissist agenda-her validation at our expense. Oldest Sister and I are now able to stay in "adult mode" because we have come to the point where we don't care what she thinks any more. Middle Sister is frustrated when she provokes us and we do not provide her with an explosive response, it is she who struggles to stay in 'adult mode'.

I know I still don't have top grade social skills and that is a 'flaw' or a 'failing' or a 'short-coming' -although I am working on it. However, I will never be a 'party girl', and I believe that is not a flaw. It simply is not in my nature.

Thanks again for all your help. I am sorry I did not note down whose suggestions applied to me to thank you specifically.

But I got to ride horses and take lessons where the kids of all the doctors and corporate presidents rode.