Concerns about living together

[yorkie6]

I currently have my own house and my boyfriend lives with his parents. We're both late twenties. I have a 5 year old daughter.

We've been together for nearly 3 years and are talking about moving in together but I've got a few worries.

My boyfriend pays his mum rent but doesn't help her with housework or cooking. When he's at my house he'll do things like have some toast and then just leave the side covered in crumbs and butter. If I make him dinner occasionally he won't help with tidying up after. If I'm struggling to put all the bins out when he's here for example he'll just watch me and not offer any help.

He comes over to mine regularly and I don't expect him to do things like housework but it worries me that he doesn't even clean up after himself or help me with simple things. If we move in together I don't want him to not pull his weight.

I brought up the subject of housework and cooking if we lived together and he said he would do his share but going on everything I've seen so far I'm not sure I believe him. He's cooked for me once in the whole time we've been together. Am I just overreacting here? Is this not something to worry about?!

@SmileyClare

I think the division of chores depends on your set up. Do you work full time, does he? If you work much less hours then you should be doing more household stuff although he should be mucking in. Have you discussed financial matters? What he'll be contributing? Are you looking to eventually marry and share finances? Is he a higher earner? Is he also prepared to step into a father role for your dd? What's their relationship like? That's just as an important consideration.

I think if you want to take this relationship forward you should take the plunge and move in together. Protect yourself by not putting him on the tenancy or mortgage. If it doesn't work then he can go back to his mum's.

Draw up a rota if necessary and agree everything in advance.

Lots of men in their twenties living at home have a household run by their mum. My eldest son has just turned twenty, lives at home and I do the bulk of housework, most cooking and laundry. He works full time, contributes to bills and I don't and its just easier all round. This doesn't mean he will refuse to adult up when he moves out.

No offence, but mums like you cause the problem OP describes. Why do you do everything for a grown up child that lives at home?? Chances are your son would also move in with a woman and expect her to be mum no. 2 sadly.

@youvegottenminuteslynn @WhoppingBigBackside
I didn't look after him. I persistently insisted he stepped up. I let it get so dirty it was revolting, waited for him to break. He didn't. He claimed he couldn't see the dirt. So I cleaned half of everything. Not kidding. Showed him the clean half and dirty half of the sink, toilet, bath. Did my best to keep some sense of humour but never let it go.
It so better now.
I still struggle to get everyone to do their share of the laundry but to be fair I don't do my share of the DC pick up and drop offs, and I haven't emptied the bins for a while, so it's swings and roundabouts.
As long as overall it's fair enough and no one is freeloading.

I let it get so dirty it was revolting, waited for him to break. He didn't. He claimed he couldn't see the dirt.

I just cannot imagine being attracted to someone who was at best disgusting enough and at worst entitled enough to behave like that!

You must have been shagging him knowing he was like that 🤢

I'm glad it worked out well in the end for you but I feel sad so many women put up with this stuff and are being treated like they should have to teach men to do the bare basics of adulting.

@youvegottenminuteslynn
You're right he didn't see it as his job, because he was brought up in a house where the men didn't do anything. Clean ironed clothes just magically appeared in his cupboard. So he had some growing up to do on that front.
However I also wasn't perfect. Most obvious issue was I couldn't effectively manage finances, again a product of my upbringing where my only strategy was to spend what you have now because you're used to being skint all the time. So I also had some growing up to do.
I see lots of threads about man-baby partners on Mn but I think really most relationships are like that in some way or other and everyone is a bit crap in their own way. It's about how you find a way through it that matters.

[quote NeverRTFT]**@youvegottenminuteslynn* @WhoppingBigBackside*
I didn't look after him. I persistently insisted he stepped up. I let it get so dirty it was revolting, waited for him to break. He didn't. He claimed he couldn't see the dirt. So I cleaned half of everything. Not kidding. Showed him the clean half and dirty half of the sink, toilet, bath. Did my best to keep some sense of humour but never let it go.
It so better now.
I still struggle to get everyone to do their share of the laundry but to be fair I don't do my share of the DC pick up and drop offs, and I haven't emptied the bins for a while, so it's swings and roundabouts.
As long as overall it's fair enough and no one is freeloading. [/quote]
It's taken 18 years for him to stop being a gross slob?
Far more investment than I would have bothered with 🤷🏼‍♀️

daffodils123 Come back to me when you have 2 teens and a 20 year-old at home and you'll realise it's completely impractical to have them all doing their own laundry and cooking separate meals at different times of the day.

I think I'm doing all I can by expecting them to pitch in, clean up after themselves, each have chores and contribute financially. The eldest is desperately saving to raise a deposit for his own place. I honestly try not to baby any of them.

I think the only way to truly learn how to live independently as an adult is to live independently as an adult which isn't entirely possible living at home with parents in a small house where we're all trying to rub along together.

Absolutely not. I’ve been with my partner nearly 3 years and from the start he has cooked, washed up, hung washing, taken bins out etc etc when he’s here without any expectation. He is a clean person who cleans up after himself. I don’t think I have any worries in terms of that if we moved in together (im just a big fan of my own space!).

These are all red flags!

@SmileyClare

daffodils123 Come back to me when you have 2 teens and a 20 year-old at home and you'll realise it's completely impractical to have them all doing their own laundry and cooking separate meals at different times of the day.

I think I'm doing all I can by expecting them to pitch in, clean up after themselves, each have chores and contribute financially. The eldest is desperately saving to raise a deposit for his own place. I honestly try not to baby any of them.

I think the only way to truly learn how to live independently as an adult is to live independently as an adult which isn't entirely possible living at home with parents in a small house where we're all trying to rub along together.

You’re making this considerably more difficult than it needs to be. They can each have a day when they cook for everyone and take it in turns to do everyone’s laundry. You’ve had people present you that precise scenario already on this thread, I believe.

Chores can and should be rotated amongst physically capable adults who live in a home. If they are not, you end up with people like OP’s boyfriend. There is no reason for this.

[quote NeverRTFT]**@youvegottenminuteslynn* @WhoppingBigBackside*
I didn't look after him. I persistently insisted he stepped up. I let it get so dirty it was revolting, waited for him to break. He didn't. He claimed he couldn't see the dirt. So I cleaned half of everything. Not kidding. Showed him the clean half and dirty half of the sink, toilet, bath. Did my best to keep some sense of humour but never let it go.
It so better now.
I still struggle to get everyone to do their share of the laundry but to be fair I don't do my share of the DC pick up and drop offs, and I haven't emptied the bins for a while, so it's swings and roundabouts.
As long as overall it's fair enough and no one is freeloading. [/quote]
I’m glad things worked out for you, but this just sounds really depressing to me.

My husband is a fully functional (and logical) adult. He was when I met him and I wouldn’t be with him otherwise. If he’d ever claimed he ‘didn’t see dirt’ or thought picking up after him was my job, we wouldn’t be together.

You lost me at "doesn't help with housework or cooking" and he's LATE twenties, not a kid! Jeeze, no way would he be moving in. Just why?

Can't even tidy up at yours after making some toast? FGS no way would I let him move in.

It’s so lazy and ignorant of him not to clean up after himself or to muck in with the clearing up after you’ve kindly cooked for him. He’s showing you exactly who he is and you’d be mad to let him move in with you!

Owambe yes agreed. My teens do a share of housework, I do the bulk of it because I work part time.I could demand they cook more regularly, I'm happy for them to clear up, wash up instead. I'm not actually the mother of the man on this thread though, give me a break.

It irks me a bit that on threads like these, the man child is held up for judgement with examples of his lack of effort, and the overwhelming response is that it's a woman's fault he's like it. It's the mother's fault, or the girlfriend's fault for not teaching him.

How about its the man's fault for being a selfish and inconsiderate person? He doesn't care enough to be a team with his partner. If he's lazy at work or leaves a trail of mess after carrying out electrical work in someone's home (for example) then is that his mum's fault too?

You also get the comments on threads like these that he should pay for a cleaner if he won't share chores. Offloading his share of the housework onto another woman is somehow an acceptable solution.

@ComtesseDeSpair

Why would you want to live with him? What’s he going to bring to your life which makes it better and easier? A boyfriend who makes toast and leaves the crumbs and doesn’t help to clear plates away after dinner, isn't going to suddenly take on a fair share of chores once he’s living with you. He’ll be claiming that his share is having done the bare minimum because he “can’t see mess” or “you didn’t ask” him to pick up his dirty socks from the floor.

Stay living separately. Better yet, get separate for good and find a better boyfriend.

This. What's the upside here?

@SmileyClare

Owambe yes agreed. My teens do a share of housework, I do the bulk of it because I work part time.I could demand they cook more regularly, I'm happy for them to clear up, wash up instead. I'm not actually the mother of the man on this thread though, give me a break.

It irks me a bit that on threads like these, the man child is held up for judgement with examples of his lack of effort, and the overwhelming response is that it's a woman's fault he's like it. It's the mother's fault, or the girlfriend's fault for not teaching him.

How about its the man's fault for being a selfish and inconsiderate person? He doesn't care enough to be a team with his partner. If he's lazy at work or leaves a trail of mess after carrying out electrical work in someone's home (for example) then is that his mum's fault too?

You also get the comments on threads like these that he should pay for a cleaner if he won't share chores. Offloading his share of the housework onto another woman is somehow an acceptable solution.

I am very much blaming the man for his own behaviour, as are most of the posters. The person who appears to be trying to minimise his behaviour is you.

It irks you that people blame the mother? The person who has blamed mothers in this thread is you, so you’re now contradicting yourself. To quote you above “Does he live alone with just his mum? I think that can sometimes be a bit of a weird dynamic when the son is an adult. confused Particularly if the mother isn't encouraging him to take responsibility or be independent.”

From your own comments, your kids aren’t equal contributors to domestic labour in your household and I responded to you about that, not to generalised motherhood about generalised useless men. To you, specifically, about the things you’ve said re laundry and cooking. It’s not about ‘demanding’ anything, it’s about able bodied adults taking responsibility and doing their share. It really is that simple.

I don't think I've minimised this man's behaviour.

I was disagreeing with several posters that said any man who hasn't lived alone is not partner material. That's never said of women as a general statement, it shouldn't be a blanket statement for all men. I'd put far more importance on whether they were a decent considerate person. How has that not been apparent after three years in a relationship?

My teens are in the final year of gcses and a levels, the eldest one works six days a week so no I'm not dividing all housework equally between the members of our family.

My point was if the man here works FT and lives at home with a mother who's at home a lot then of course she would do more in the home, especially if he's at his girlfriend's half the time.

I do think an adult man living on his own with his mother is a weird dynamic. It's not all about housework, it's often just a bit co dependent and intense emotionally.. The man might feel guilt about leaving. I wasn't talking about housework there.

@SmileyClare You have minimised his behaviour, as has been clearly pointed out to you by others.

You have said it irked you when mothers were blamed, then (and you’re the only person I’ve seen do this), blamed mothers. Whatever you were blaming them for (housework or other), you placed blame with the mother ‘not encouraging him to take responsibility or be independent’, as opposed to with the man himself.

You are now drip feeding additional responsibilities that make it well nigh impossible for your kids to do chores - in your head. Nothing you’ve said makes hour 20 year old son incapable of the few minutes it takes to put on a load of laundry for the household. It is also highly unlikely that making dinner for everyone once a week is going to be the reason anyone fails their A levels.

You have some quite antediluvian ideas, as evidenced by pretty much everything you’ve commented. It’s 2021, we are not denizens of Stepford and every day even fewer women are willing to tolerate domestic ineptitude from their partners. Hopefully, soon it’ll be none.

Calling him a man child is an insult to children. My kids do way more than this lazy arse.

My DP isn’t great at housework, he’s only really had to do it for the last couple of years as he had live in help before lockdowns, but even so when he’s at my house he clears the table, helps cook, and will empty the dishwasher without being asked these days too #miraclesdohappen

He still leaves every cupboard and drawer open and dumps the teabag on the worktop instead of in the bin, which drives me nuts, but at least I know that he does more here than he does at his own house, as it’s generally a bit of a tip when I go round. Tbh it puts me off wanting to live with him. He’s mid 40s so if he hasn’t learned by now he never will. Yours still has time to learn but he needs to be given the freedom and responsibility to get on with it. I’d suggest that he lives on his own for a bit before moving in with you. You want a man not a boy, so he needs to run a household, do his own chores and at least get a flavour for what’s involved, not just move from one mummy to another. You’ll regret it if he does move straight in.

OP has not returned to thread.

Pity, because I wanted to ask why she's let this go on for three years without scolding him.

Surely if you cook for a man once, then again, then again, by the 3rd time you should be telling him that it's his turn next.

Likewise if he stands and watches you struggle with the bins even once, why didn't you say something?

And how many times has he left toast crumbs and yet you have said nothing? For three years?!? I'd tell him after the very first time that he must clean up any mess he makes. If he did it a 2nd time I'd ask him if he's taking the piss and tell him if he can't clean up his own mess then he must stop making himself snacks.

He may be a lazy man-child but you've enabled this state of affairs by being so passive, in fact I'd even say that to cook for a man for 3 years and letting him get away with once in return qualifies for the label "doormat". How many meals is that? Even if its only 1 per week that's 150.

People treat us the way we allow them to. You've made a rod for your own back by allowing him to treat you like this for 3 years.

There may have been a hope of training him up to be normal had you not done this.

But you already have a child?

I wouldn't consider it until he has lived on his own for a year, minimum.

He hasn’t earned a trial. Don’t do it. Why does he think he’ll suddenly be a different person because he lives with you? I married young, a lovely man I’m still with and have dc with but I was a competent human being in my mid 20s (despite me living at home till then, my mum was very different from his or smiley claire!) and he’d been spoilt rotten at home till then. I explained chores etc, what needed doing but i had to do this many many times over years and even though he’s amazing now he does not understand the resentment of those years. If I’d already had a child to look after I’d have given up, you haven’t got all that free time to invest in training an adult too.

You have to start by discussing your concerns with him, and at least delaying any move in until you are more comfortable.

It's good that you noticed this behaviour now, before he's moved in. Him making his own mother clean up after him will not give you any confidence that he won't expect the same from you.

I wish I'd realised this before I'd moved in with mine, and set some very clear expectations and consequences.
Him moving into yours also won't do anything to help that dynamic, as he might see it as your space and your responsibility - and you might too.

@monotonousmum It's funny you say that he may see it as my responsibility as it's my house. I'm actually getting the impression he thinks this now, even if the mess is caused by him.

He fully admits he is lazy and I've said to him that it would not be my job to pick up after him. He's not a bad person - he's kind and great with my DD but I'm starting to think that despite what he says about pitching in if we live together, it probably isn't true.

If he claims he will do more then tell him he has the opportunity to demonstrate that from now. My DH and I did not live together until we were married but we spent every evening together. He loved to shop and cook and was great at DIY tasks and generally pulled his weight and this is how we still work 20 years later. We tend to work to our strengths re division of labour but it has always worked okay.
He needs to prove himself NOW. not when he moves in and that includes cooking, tidying and any other jobs that need doing.

Yeah thats a no. Plus if he’s in your house he should be cleaning up after himself at the very least, that’s disrespectful, would he do that at a mates house? Or just to you? If it’s just to you then yeah he thinks it’s your job to skivvy after him in your own house.

If you want to keep him don’t let him move in but make sure he starts cleaning up after himself when he’s at your and starts pulling his weight. Personally I would leave it, you can do better.

Please don't let him move in. My husband was/is like this and it has caused so much grief and resentment. I speak from bitter experience!!