Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Is this abuse?

85 replies

Mebulbelet · 03/11/2021 07:17

15 years married and kids, one with special needs, neurodiverse with all the problems that come along with it. DH has some issues. Quite a fragile ego. I work, he's home with the kids.

Things have been rocky over the years but we've muddled through. Generally, outside of arguments, DH is kind and supportive, good Dad, does his fair share, a bit needy but nothing terrible.

The worst thing is that DH loses it in arguments. I mean, as in blows up, says the most outrageous things. It's often, but not just, around our SN kid who puts us under A LOT of pressure with their needs, demands and behaviour. He'll scream and shout, bring up endless past crimes of mine (apparently he has this great memory and I don't hence his version counts even of things I have zero recollection of), he'll call me terrible names, bring in the most painful moments of my life and childhood to weaponise against me. I mean there are no boundaries - I'm talking about parental rejection, bereavement, casting blame etc. He'll often do this in front of the kids. Later he'll apologise and say he didn't mean it.

About 10 years ago, while in an argument, he physically pushed me. He did apologise for that and we moved on. He paints it as a one-off and a non event if I raise it now. But it sticks with me even a decade later. It was scary. I may have left then but the kids were very small and it seemed so overwhelming.

We have been to counselling and I have said that I cannot deal with these arguments. However good things might be between, even if these are infrequent (good times, think every six months, bad times more frequently), I find the resentment growing. I find for months and months afterwards I can't move past the arguments. But it doesn't seem to change, he can't control himself.

So, we recently had a fight. It wasn't such a big deal but he loses it. It was about kids and rules. I told him that the kids don't respect him as he gives in all the time (not so nice but relevant to what we were aruging about). He responded angrily that they don't respect me and they hate me and that I'm a monster. He says this in front of one of the kids. I leave the room and go down to the kitchen and ask him to leave me alone as I do not want to argue with the kids there as it's becoming nasty. He follows me, screaming at me how awful I am as I am walking away. In the kitchen I try to walk away from him as he has followed me there and he grabs my arms hard (enough to leave finger marks) to stop me leaving and screams in my face 'I don't need you, I don't want you, you need to hear this etc' (loud enough for dc to hear), as well as other terrible things.

So he apologizes later that evening for restraining me. But then when talking, he starts listing all my crimes and doubling down on me being a monster and a terrible mother and how the kids complain to him all the time about me and tell him how much they hate me. Which of course is bullshit or things they say just when angry.

So that's my sorry situation. Separating is hard with the kids and having a SN kid especially but I'm fantasizing about it at the moment. Not having to live in fear of another argument and my list of crimes being produced, genuine or not.

Whenever I call this abuse, he comes back with all the things he does for me when things are normal and how that proves his love and that this is not an abusive relationship. So I'm confused. Yes, he does do a lot and he (usually) is supportive. But that doesn't justify this, right? It's not normal, is it? The screaming, the shouting, the abusive words, the weaponising of the past? Even two physical events in 15 years - that's not normal either, right?

OP posts:
spotcheck · 03/11/2021 07:19

The whole relationship seems a bit toxic

Mebulbelet · 03/11/2021 07:22

The arguments part of the relationship is very toxic. Which is a shame as it poisons all the good stuff.

OP posts:
Choice4567 · 03/11/2021 07:26

Yes it’s abuse. I know it seems overwhelmingly hard but you need to leave, for you and the children. It’s not good for them to live in such an environment

AdamRyan · 03/11/2021 07:31

It's abusive. Abusive relationships aren't abusive all the time or women wouldn't stay in them.
Read this
www.docdroid.net/2fZmz40/why-does-he-do-that-pdf

Mebulbelet · 03/11/2021 07:32

Which means leaving my kids because DH is a SAHD. Which cuts me up inside.

OP posts:
AdamRyan · 03/11/2021 07:40

Why would you have to leave your kids? You don't. You could do shared care. You could pay for childcare or reduce your work hours.
I suggest you talk to a solicitor about what your options are in this situation but it's unlikely to be as bleak as you think it is. Do you think your husband has introduced a feeling that you can't look after your children or manage alone?

AttilaTheMeerkat · 03/11/2021 07:44

Re your comment:-
Which means leaving my kids because DHis a SAHD?.

Why would that happen?. This is mere supposition on your part and you may well be wrong. Would urge you to seek legal advice ASAP to find out properly what your position is re divorce.

What you’ve described with this man is also the nice/nasty cycle of abuse and that is a continuous one. He is also not above trying to gaslight you either into questioning your own version of reality. Such psychological abuse is also insidious in its onset as is all the abuse you describe. Of course he is going to deny what he does to you is abusive, practically all abusers do that. I would also think that he is also all sweetness and light to those in the outside world. It’s behind closed doors that his true nature emerges to you all.

Sparklfairy · 03/11/2021 07:44

OP if he's abusive you can't just leave your kids with him. You may not have said the abuse is towards them directly but with you no longer there he will have to direct his screaming and pushing somewhere. Its not safe for them, SAHD or not.

Mebulbelet · 03/11/2021 07:44

How do you make someone leave if they refuse? He won't leave. That's 100% for sure and certain.

Does this really sound so bad that there's no hope?

OP posts:
Sparklfairy · 03/11/2021 07:48

Does this really sound so bad that there's no hope?

Yes. This environment is toxic and damaging to your children. Dont stay simply because you're scared of change and disruption and the fallout of a split. You'll manage, and your children will thank you for it.

AdamRyan · 03/11/2021 07:49

What is the "hope" you need?
He's always going to be intermittently cruel to you in arguments. That's always going to chip away at your love for him and your self esteem.
Your children will model what they see abd are quite likely to start behaving similarly (either being cruel OR accepting behaviour from friends that's damaging to them)

You can live like that for a long time but I don't think the abuse will stop because it's a deeply ingrained response in your husband.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 03/11/2021 07:50

These types of individuals always but always refuse to leave. He has it cushy with you, he has you around to abuse and so he does not want to see that gravy train hit the buffers. What do you want to teach your children about relationships and what are they learning here?. You being abused by him will have deleterious effects on your children too. Decent men do not abuse the mother of their children.

You are going to have to employ legal means here and you may also have to look at occupation and or non molestation orders re this man.

The only acceptable level of abuse in a relationship is none. This marriage was actually over the very first time he abused you.

AdamRyan · 03/11/2021 07:53

Sorry, another book
www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1539020401/ref=dbs_a_w_dp_1539020401?tag=mumsnetforu03-21
This is useful for lines to take when a partner is being abusive.

GoodnightGrandma · 03/11/2021 07:55

Resentment is the killer. I’ve said it before ….
Get your ducks in a row and prepare for the inevitable.

TheFoundations · 03/11/2021 07:56

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycle_of_abuse

Abuse contains periods of niceness. That's just how it works. None of the parts of the abuse cycle have specific time expectations: big gaps between abusive episodes don't take you off the wheel of abuse. As you say, it poisons everything. Saying 'it's a shame' is a way of taking responsibility off him for what he's doing: destroying your love and trust for him. 'It's a shame' makes it passive, but what he's doing is active.

He's also using a classic abuse technique on you called 'DARVO'

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DARVO

This turns the blame back onto you, when he's the one who's done something wrong. The only reason he needs to bring up the past is because he needs the ammo; and that means that you didn't do anything wrong enough prior to this period of abuse to justify the way he's treating you. He needs more failings of yours to list, because he knows how badly he's treating you, and he needs to make it sound as if you've done something worse. It sounds like he's gaslighting you too

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting

by saying you've done things in the past that you don't remember doing.

It's all classic abuse. He's like a model abuser. He's clearly read the handbook.

You need to get yourself and your kids away from this. I think that by saying 'I'll have to leave the kids because he's the stay at home parent' is you, understandably, trying to cling to as much of your current normality as you can, but a very big shift in your life pattern may be in order. It's not good for the kids to be around an abuser, and it's not right that he should have custody of them if this is the way he behaves around them.

Speak to Women's Aid. They've seen thousands like you before, and they'll be able to talk you through different pathways and options. There is support out there for you and your children.

Arabelladrinkstea · 03/11/2021 07:57

How can you leave your children knowing they would then suffer from the same abuse?
Sorry but that’s never acceptable, I don’t care what your situation you have a moral obligation to your children to also make sure they don’t have to grow up walking on egg shells around a toxic abuser!

TheFoundations · 03/11/2021 07:58

@Mebulbelet

How do you make someone leave if they refuse? He won't leave. That's 100% for sure and certain.

Does this really sound so bad that there's no hope?

What steps has he taken over the years to try to sort out his behaviour?
lydia2021 · 03/11/2021 08:03

Grabbing you, following you, screaming at you in front of kids, bringing up your past emotional stuff. Distressing for you plus kids. It's all connected to DV.. Police will remove him from the home if you report what you are suffering. Ss would remove him with police, as kids in a DV home are protected now. Can you get back up from your support network of people in background at SN childs school or doctors. It will be hard, but the peace is worth it

Mebulbelet · 03/11/2021 08:05

He doesn't behave to the kids the way he does to me. He's endlessly patient with our SN kid who is anyway old enough to decide with whom they would choose to live (100% would choose Dad).

BUT even though he does not lose his shit to anywhere the near same extent with the kids and is generally very loving and does a lot for them, gives into them and is far less strict than I am, when he occasionally loses it, he REALLY loses it. Again, not to the same extent as with me which would be crazy - he's never been physical with them - but definitely shouting and crossing the line of what you say to kids in my opinion.

OP posts:
Mebulbelet · 03/11/2021 08:06

@lydia2021

Grabbing you, following you, screaming at you in front of kids, bringing up your past emotional stuff. Distressing for you plus kids. It's all connected to DV.. Police will remove him from the home if you report what you are suffering. Ss would remove him with police, as kids in a DV home are protected now. Can you get back up from your support network of people in background at SN childs school or doctors. It will be hard, but the peace is worth it
OMG, no way. Dh is an absolute saint and martyr in the eyes of all the professionals involved with SN DC!
OP posts:
EverybodyScream · 03/11/2021 08:09

@Mebulbelet

Which means leaving my kids because DH is a SAHD. Which cuts me up inside.
Don't leave them alone with him. My mum was like this with my dad in arguments.

My dad didn't know that my mum used to batter and strangle us when he was at work. We never told him till adulthood. Seriously verbally abusive as well.

lydia2021 · 03/11/2021 08:11

They think hes a saint, because you havent reported him

beingsunny · 03/11/2021 08:11

He is being abusive, to you and in turn to your children, you should take steps to leave him.

Your children are hearing everything he says to you, they are going to sleep at night with those words in their minds.

He won't leave easily, you will need to take control of the situation, how old are the children?

If they are in school, start arranging wrap around care and managing some of the school run yourself, consider it a trial run for when you are a single parent. Start building a status quo now that will support your expectations of shared custody.

I'm sorry this is happening to you, I know lots of people here will say just leave, but we all know it's never that easy and can take time. Posting here was your first step. Telling people, even strangers on the internet what's happening at home is a first step in acknowledging this isn't ok.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 03/11/2021 08:12

Image is all important to abusers . He sounds like a Disney Dad who has also left all the and hard important parts of parenting to you. Make no mistake, he is harming them too emotionally by treating them like he is doing. Children are not daft and do pick up on all the vibes both spoken and unspoken between you two.

Mebulbelet · 03/11/2021 08:13

@TheFoundations

So we have been to marriage counselling twice. Both times he did not like it and did not like the counsellor and didn't want to continue. However, last time we went (about 3 years ago), he did accept how damaging the arguments are, including to the kids to argue in front of them, and promised to control himself.

It might be a good idea to go again. So that at least I can know that I've tried everything to keep the relationship together.

I also told DH after an awful argument last year that he needs to see someone himself to work through his issues. He refused at first but finally agreed. However, that one backfired. He loves the therapist and talks about all the difficulty raising our SN child (which is true, it's incredibly difficult and challenging). Therapist has told him what a hero he is and how brave he is. I mean, it's fine to do that to address what is very very difficult as a parent. But he hasn't used it to address the anger issues. In fact, in the recent argument, he said that his therapist had told him that I am toxic.

OP posts: