Is this abuse?

[Mebulbelet]

15 years married and kids, one with special needs, neurodiverse with all the problems that come along with it. DH has some issues. Quite a fragile ego. I work, he's home with the kids.

Things have been rocky over the years but we've muddled through. Generally, outside of arguments, DH is kind and supportive, good Dad, does his fair share, a bit needy but nothing terrible.

The worst thing is that DH loses it in arguments. I mean, as in blows up, says the most outrageous things. It's often, but not just, around our SN kid who puts us under A LOT of pressure with their needs, demands and behaviour. He'll scream and shout, bring up endless past crimes of mine (apparently he has this great memory and I don't hence his version counts even of things I have zero recollection of), he'll call me terrible names, bring in the most painful moments of my life and childhood to weaponise against me. I mean there are no boundaries - I'm talking about parental rejection, bereavement, casting blame etc. He'll often do this in front of the kids. Later he'll apologise and say he didn't mean it.

About 10 years ago, while in an argument, he physically pushed me. He did apologise for that and we moved on. He paints it as a one-off and a non event if I raise it now. But it sticks with me even a decade later. It was scary. I may have left then but the kids were very small and it seemed so overwhelming.

We have been to counselling and I have said that I cannot deal with these arguments. However good things might be between, even if these are infrequent (good times, think every six months, bad times more frequently), I find the resentment growing. I find for months and months afterwards I can't move past the arguments. But it doesn't seem to change, he can't control himself.

So, we recently had a fight. It wasn't such a big deal but he loses it. It was about kids and rules. I told him that the kids don't respect him as he gives in all the time (not so nice but relevant to what we were aruging about). He responded angrily that they don't respect me and they hate me and that I'm a monster. He says this in front of one of the kids. I leave the room and go down to the kitchen and ask him to leave me alone as I do not want to argue with the kids there as it's becoming nasty. He follows me, screaming at me how awful I am as I am walking away. In the kitchen I try to walk away from him as he has followed me there and he grabs my arms hard (enough to leave finger marks) to stop me leaving and screams in my face 'I don't need you, I don't want you, you need to hear this etc' (loud enough for dc to hear), as well as other terrible things.

So he apologizes later that evening for restraining me. But then when talking, he starts listing all my crimes and doubling down on me being a monster and a terrible mother and how the kids complain to him all the time about me and tell him how much they hate me. Which of course is bullshit or things they say just when angry.

So that's my sorry situation. Separating is hard with the kids and having a SN kid especially but I'm fantasizing about it at the moment. Not having to live in fear of another argument and my list of crimes being produced, genuine or not.

Whenever I call this abuse, he comes back with all the things he does for me when things are normal and how that proves his love and that this is not an abusive relationship. So I'm confused. Yes, he does do a lot and he (usually) is supportive. But that doesn't justify this, right? It's not normal, is it? The screaming, the shouting, the abusive words, the weaponising of the past? Even two physical events in 15 years - that's not normal either, right?

"By looking at your own behaviour - hard as that can be - you may change the dynamic between you"

She is not responsible for how he has behaved towards and around her. What more can the OP herself do other than leave her abuser?. She is not responsible for his actions or choices here and he enforces this dynamic in their household.

Abuse is NOT a relationship problem. Abuse is about power and control, nothing more and nothing less. He was the one who dropped out of joint therapy unsurprisingly and that was never going to work out anyway. OPs H wants absolute over her and in turn these children who are also being affected by seeing their mother being abused so.

No-one is however perfect.

Your H is not making things any better for you or his children in this household by him acting as he has done and continues to do around you. Hell, he's followed you from room to room so as not to lose his audience.

I'm sorry you're going through this, @Mebulbelet.

Your DH will resist counselling the closer he comes to having to have a close look at his behaviours, so I think you're on a hiding to nothing with couples counselling. (Most people only go into counselling/therapy when they're on their knees anyway, and it sounds like your husband's displacement of his own issues on to you cushions him from hitting rock bottom.)

He is abusive. I would find a way to leave, and perhaps enlist the support of a carer for your children if you can to help you when they're with you.

I would strongly disagree with posts by @Coronawireless.
I recently read that Mutual abuse is actually believed to be very rare in relationships. Look up reactive abuse which would be far more common. It is natural for OP to try and defend herself from his attacks. He had no right to follow her and restrain her leaving marks on her. OP is not to blame for her husband’s actions. He is an adult and therefore more then capable of not losing control especially in front of the children.

It’s very hard to say just from a one-sided post what the dynamic is. But things don’t sound easy overall. It must be very difficult for you, balancing working full time with trying to support and keep in sync with a DC with SN. Maybe if your DH got a job now that would help both of you? Hope you can find some resolution 💐

I have a temper too and used to be very reactive. Various reasons that I understand now linked to childhood and role models. With counselling, I HAVE reined it in because it's wrong for the chidlren to see such a thing, that was my main motivation - to be a better parent. I want DH to do the same.

@Coronawireless

It’s very hard to say just from a one-sided post what the dynamic is. But things don’t sound easy overall. It must be very difficult for you, balancing working full time with trying to support and keep in sync with a DC with SN. Maybe if your DH got a job now that would help both of you? Hope you can find some resolution 💐

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I understand @Coronawireless 's point. I don't think it's black and white and, of course, you're only hearing things from my point of view.
But I do agree - my husband needs to be responsible for how he reacts. Even if I am a total bitch (which I don't think I am), he needs to keep control too.

A job won't happen for various reasons.

He won't though because he likes having you around to abuse and otherwise mistreat. Why would he want to change anything to do with that?. If you left he would then have to put the work in to find yet another woman to behave the same with and he being inherently lazy does not want to do that.

All credit to you for working through your previous issues relating to anger which indeed did primarily come from your childhood and role models. Changing one aspect of your own ingrained behaviour is hard enough but can be achieved. However, hoping, wishing and or wanting someone else to change theirs is not ever going to happen. He will have no epiphany.

He grabbed you retrained you screamed.
And next time will be worse
If you just go back to ok carry on
He will explode again He has form
Pp correct that you can only change your actions
That means taking steps to separate

Yes it's abuse.

It's also child abuse, because he is doing this in front of the children. They are being deeply hurt by this. It's not just about you.

Leave him, but don't leave the kids with him.

By looking at your own behaviour - hard as that can be - you may change the dynamic between you.

@Coronawireless It's not due to annything OP does that her husband chooses to be physically and verbally abusive, including in front of the children.

Hi OP, like you I am the main breadwinner and DP is a SAHD to DS who has extremely complex special needs. I get how hard that is. It's exhausting. But we get through it together, as a team. Your DH is abusive.

@me4real

By looking at your own behaviour - hard as that can be - you may change the dynamic between you.

@Coronawireless It's not due to annything OP does that her husband chooses to be physically and verbally abusive, including in front of the children.

Agree @me4real. I think the idea of "behaviour change" on both sides is often misunderstood and misinterpreted to suggest that both parties are abusive. Typically, though, the behaviour change on the part of the victim is to begin to absorb the realisation that nothing is going to stop the abuse, and that somehow a plan must be made to leave.

I think often theseen are attracted to women like us, who want to take responsibility for our part in the dynamic, who are prepared to flex our behaviour around them. Because as whatmatters says, it enables them to avoid facing up to their own issues.
I think the only aspect of your behaviour its worth you changing is how you respond to his abuse. That's why I linked the book upthread. You need to stop accepting, minimising or otherwise tolerating it. Its risky though. Maybe over time he'll change or maybe he'll escalate to maintain control. Noone on the Internet can tell you what he is likely to do.

There's lots of black and white on here which might make you feel as if you either leave or stay as it is. But there are other boundaries you can put in place, like leaving the house the minute he starts abusing you (and tell him that's what you are doing), or refusing to engage in his list of complaints.

This has been going on for so long that you have become conditioned to it. When he screamed in your face that he didn't want or need you, an unconditioned response would be " Ok, go then".
I think after a decade of this should tell you that it's unfixable, so stop trying to hang onto it with more counselling.
See a solicitor to find out how a split could go, being together is more damaging to your DC's than being apart would be.

@Opentooffers

This has been going on for so long that you have become conditioned to it. When he screamed in your face that he didn't want or need you, an unconditioned response would be " Ok, go then". I think after a decade of this should tell you that it's unfixable, so stop trying to hang onto it with more counselling. See a solicitor to find out how a split could go, being together is more damaging to your DC's than being apart would be.

My response was 'Stop screaming, the children can hear you'. I don't think that's a conditioned response. If I'd have said 'Ok, go then', the response would have been even more shouting about why I need to go since I am a toxic mother and every parenting flaw over the last 15 years would be raised. I was trying to remove myself from the argument so the children wouldn't be exposed.

The children are exposed because he chooses to shout that stuff at you. You can't control that. Only he can. It is a conditioned response in that you are taking a certain path to prevent consequences "If I'd have said 'Ok, go then', the response would have been even more shouting about why I need to go since I am a toxic mother and every parenting flaw over the last 15 years would be raised."

I'm a Mom of a 21-year old severely SN child and life is really,really hard at times but my DH doesn't behave this way or me to him (I am not a saint whatsoever.)
This is abuse both emotional and physical. You need to report him to protect your children. You do things you don't want to do as a parent.

Please please record the outbursts and keep them somewhere hidden. He sounds hugely manipulative. I am betting if you did split from him the mask would finally slip and you will see a very nasty side.
More than likely he will villainize you and use the children as ammo. He is only nice some of the time now as he has you where he wants you, taking his shit whilst he tells himself everything is your fault including his own lack of self control. Please speak to woman's aid they have heard every type of scenario and can offer good advice.

@screentime1000

Please please record the outbursts and keep them somewhere hidden. He sounds hugely manipulative. I am betting if you did split from him the mask would finally slip and you will see a very nasty side. More than likely he will villainize you and use the children as ammo. He is only nice some of the time now as he has you where he wants you, taking his shit whilst he tells himself everything is your fault including his own lack of self control. Please speak to woman's aid they have heard every type of scenario and can offer good advice.

Why keep hidden? Record znd play to professionals today

@Embracelife I assume PP meant hide it from the bloke himself.

Well yes but no point keeping hidden. Need to report latest now while it fresh

My response was 'Stop screaming, the children can hear you'.
I don't think that's a conditioned response.
If I'd have said 'Ok, go then', the response would have been even more shouting about why I need to go since I am a toxic mother and every parenting flaw over the last 15 years would be raised. I was trying to remove myself from the argument so the children wouldn't be exposed

So when he says you go 'say ok, grab a bag and go' Then come back with someone you trust to collect the dc.

Start to get your ducks in a row op. This man is abusive and all this aggression and shouting will be affecting the dc