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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Is this abuse?

85 replies

Mebulbelet · 03/11/2021 07:17

15 years married and kids, one with special needs, neurodiverse with all the problems that come along with it. DH has some issues. Quite a fragile ego. I work, he's home with the kids.

Things have been rocky over the years but we've muddled through. Generally, outside of arguments, DH is kind and supportive, good Dad, does his fair share, a bit needy but nothing terrible.

The worst thing is that DH loses it in arguments. I mean, as in blows up, says the most outrageous things. It's often, but not just, around our SN kid who puts us under A LOT of pressure with their needs, demands and behaviour. He'll scream and shout, bring up endless past crimes of mine (apparently he has this great memory and I don't hence his version counts even of things I have zero recollection of), he'll call me terrible names, bring in the most painful moments of my life and childhood to weaponise against me. I mean there are no boundaries - I'm talking about parental rejection, bereavement, casting blame etc. He'll often do this in front of the kids. Later he'll apologise and say he didn't mean it.

About 10 years ago, while in an argument, he physically pushed me. He did apologise for that and we moved on. He paints it as a one-off and a non event if I raise it now. But it sticks with me even a decade later. It was scary. I may have left then but the kids were very small and it seemed so overwhelming.

We have been to counselling and I have said that I cannot deal with these arguments. However good things might be between, even if these are infrequent (good times, think every six months, bad times more frequently), I find the resentment growing. I find for months and months afterwards I can't move past the arguments. But it doesn't seem to change, he can't control himself.

So, we recently had a fight. It wasn't such a big deal but he loses it. It was about kids and rules. I told him that the kids don't respect him as he gives in all the time (not so nice but relevant to what we were aruging about). He responded angrily that they don't respect me and they hate me and that I'm a monster. He says this in front of one of the kids. I leave the room and go down to the kitchen and ask him to leave me alone as I do not want to argue with the kids there as it's becoming nasty. He follows me, screaming at me how awful I am as I am walking away. In the kitchen I try to walk away from him as he has followed me there and he grabs my arms hard (enough to leave finger marks) to stop me leaving and screams in my face 'I don't need you, I don't want you, you need to hear this etc' (loud enough for dc to hear), as well as other terrible things.

So he apologizes later that evening for restraining me. But then when talking, he starts listing all my crimes and doubling down on me being a monster and a terrible mother and how the kids complain to him all the time about me and tell him how much they hate me. Which of course is bullshit or things they say just when angry.

So that's my sorry situation. Separating is hard with the kids and having a SN kid especially but I'm fantasizing about it at the moment. Not having to live in fear of another argument and my list of crimes being produced, genuine or not.

Whenever I call this abuse, he comes back with all the things he does for me when things are normal and how that proves his love and that this is not an abusive relationship. So I'm confused. Yes, he does do a lot and he (usually) is supportive. But that doesn't justify this, right? It's not normal, is it? The screaming, the shouting, the abusive words, the weaponising of the past? Even two physical events in 15 years - that's not normal either, right?

OP posts:
lydia2021 · 03/11/2021 08:13

Was thinking of saying something else but not in the habit of gaslighting other people. Good luck

AttilaTheMeerkat · 03/11/2021 08:15

Abuse like you describe also thrives on secrecy. Time to bust this wide open now and at the very least start opening up to trusted others in your social circle. Getting your GP on board would not be a bad idea either, you need a documented paper trail.

I would also urge you to contact Women’s Aid, they have seen many such scenarios before and can help plan you a safe exit with your children.

Original poster
Mebulbelet · 03/11/2021 08:15

@AttilaTheMeerkat

Image is all important to abusers . He sounds like a Disney Dad who has also left all the and hard important parts of parenting to you. Make no mistake, he is harming them too emotionally by treating them like he is doing. Children are not daft and do pick up on all the vibes both spoken and unspoken between you two.
To be fair, he does do the hard parenting with our SN kid. More than me. And it's intense, really intense.
OP posts:
AttilaTheMeerkat · 03/11/2021 08:19

You’ve already tried more than enough years to keep this relationship going, let it go now. It has not worked because he is and remains abusive towards you and in turn your kids.

Joint counselling is never recommended where there is abuse of any type within the relationship. I dare say he tried to manipulate that counsellor into taking his side. You never had any form of equal say. Also you are in not a safe enough place anyway to undergo any form of joint counselling with him. Abuse too is not a relationship issue, it’s about peer and control and this individual wants absolute over you and these children.

Embracelife · 03/11/2021 08:19

You need to tell your social worker and other professionals involved. Show them the bruises.
You can argue 50 50 care
But if he us screaming and shouting etc is not good for dc

Ex showed his true colors to professionals too , but I am sure if you say in front of them and dh what has been going on he will show his true self
Don't hide it

You need to get this out
Tell one of the professionals
Start safeguarding

Embracelife · 03/11/2021 08:21

And yeh my ex had his therapists etc thinking how wonderful he was.

But you need to think practical how to separate

AttilaTheMeerkat · 03/11/2021 08:21

That is probably what he tells you as well, he is doing all that hard work but your own contribution is not insignificant. It does not negate the truth that he is emotionally damaging them because he is abusing you as their mother.

Embracelife · 03/11/2021 08:22

So social worker and others saw the issues.
Get it out, in front of them
His own personal counsellor bought into him
Complex
But you know this is toxic
And destroying you

Original poster
Mebulbelet · 03/11/2021 08:24

@AttilaTheMeerkat

You’ve already tried more than enough years to keep this relationship going, let it go now. It has not worked because he is and remains abusive towards you and in turn your kids.

Joint counselling is never recommended where there is abuse of any type within the relationship. I dare say he tried to manipulate that counsellor into taking his side. You never had any form of equal say. Also you are in not a safe enough place anyway to undergo any form of joint counselling with him. Abuse too is not a relationship issue, it’s about peer and control and this individual wants absolute over you and these children.

I spoke up, I have no problem with that. And actually both times the counsellors did zero in on the issue. But both times, after a few sessions, DH wanted to stop as he found it no longer helpful.

What I want is for him to learn to control himself when he is angry or triggered and not go nuclear. I don't think he is planning this or thinking it through but it happens and it's unacceptable, I know that.

OP posts:
Original poster
Mebulbelet · 03/11/2021 08:25

@AttilaTheMeerkat

That is probably what he tells you as well, he is doing all that hard work but your own contribution is not insignificant. It does not negate the truth that he is emotionally damaging them because he is abusing you as their mother.
Yes. He says I am damaging SN child. And he must save them from me.
OP posts:
SkiingIsHeaven · 03/11/2021 08:25

You know that it is not right.

You know what you need to do.

Only you can change the situation to save yourself and keep your children safe.

It is not going to get any better. It will more likely get worse.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 03/11/2021 08:25

So his therapist told him that you were toxic!. That was an outright lie on his part.

He is really straight out of abusers 101 isn’t he.

He has a problem with anger, YOUR anger, when you rightly call him out on his unreasonable behaviour. Anger management courses are also no answer to domestic violence which is also being described here in your posts.

HollowTalk · 03/11/2021 08:25

Would it be possible for him to get a part-time job? On the one hand he sounds like a complete bastard and on the other he may be just completely stressed out.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 03/11/2021 08:27

It’s not you, it’s him. He is and actively continues to harm you all markedly.

What are his parents like, I’d take a close look at them.

NaturalBlondeYeahRight · 03/11/2021 08:37

Record it - as soon as you hear it building up. Even for your own sanity

WickedWitchOfTheTrent · 03/11/2021 08:41

The only acceptable amounts of abuse in a relationship is none

You e tried counselling and he's continued to abuse you

He's painted himself as the hero in the household and with Ss. The reason they also think that way is neither you, or the dc have told them any different. I think he also convinced you he's the hero. He's not. He's abusing the children's mother and abusing them by doing so.

You need to leave this man.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 03/11/2021 08:43

"What I want is for him to learn to control himself when he is angry or triggered and not go nuclear. I don't think he is planning this or thinking it through but it happens and it's unacceptable, I know that".

But he can control himself around other people. He just wants to abuse and otherwise control you by going nuclear around you. He views you with the utmost contempt, in his head you're to blame for all his inherent ills. Such men too hate women, all of them starting with their own mother.

His actions are planned and thought through; he knows exactly what he is doing here.

Original poster
Mebulbelet · 03/11/2021 08:51

@AttilaTheMeerkat

"What I want is for him to learn to control himself when he is angry or triggered and not go nuclear. I don't think he is planning this or thinking it through but it happens and it's unacceptable, I know that".

But he can control himself around other people. He just wants to abuse and otherwise control you by going nuclear around you. He views you with the utmost contempt, in his head you're to blame for all his inherent ills. Such men too hate women, all of them starting with their own mother.

His actions are planned and thought through; he knows exactly what he is doing here.

Hmm, I've seen him explode like this with his family too. One crazy scene once when he had a physical fight with his brother as an adult as well as PLENTY of shouting!! A couple of times with his mother (the shouting but not physical or calling her names). His Dad died before we met so never seen what he might be like with him.

He does blame though terribly. I know he blames himself for the SN of our DC. But I think he also blames me too. Whereas I don't have any blame. Not for him and not for myself. It is what it is and we did nothing wrong, it just happened.

OP posts:
SecretDoor · 03/11/2021 08:57

Is he a SAHD by choice?

Coronawireless · 03/11/2021 09:05

It sounds like he lives a stressful life.
You started that particular argument by telling him the kids don’t respect him. It’s ok for you to verbally abuse him in front of them but not for him to retaliate.
Do you find the SN child difficult to deal with? To the point that if the marriage ended you’d leave the children with your DH?
Things sound toxic between you at present but I don’t think your DH is solely to blame here.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 03/11/2021 09:08

Hmm, I've seen him explode like this with his family too. One crazy scene once when he had a physical fight with his brother as an adult as well as PLENTY of shouting!! A couple of times with his mother (the shouting but not physical or calling her names). His Dad died before we met so never seen what he might be like with him.

Lots of red flags there re your H. Its not beyond the realms of possibility that his late father was an abuser as well and that your H has merely copied that.

Your H does this because he can, he feels entitled to do so and it works for him. I would also surmise that he does blame you mainly rather than his own self for your child's additional needs.

(Am myself a past master at beating my own self up re DSs additional needs but as you rightly surmise it is what it is and its no-one's fault. It just happens by chance).

Original poster
Mebulbelet · 03/11/2021 09:09

@Coronawireless

No, he's not entirely to blame, of course not. He probably wouldn't be like this with someone different. Or if we didn't have the stress of an SN kid which precipitates a lot of arguments.

I shouldn't have said at that point that one of the dc doesn't respect him because he lets them them get away with everything. I should have stopped and walked away before that, true. But it wasn't out of the blue. He'd called me a dictator before then. At that point I should have walked away rather than retaliating. I regret that.

OP posts:
Coronawireless · 03/11/2021 09:19

[quote Mebulbelet]@Coronawireless

No, he's not entirely to blame, of course not. He probably wouldn't be like this with someone different. Or if we didn't have the stress of an SN kid which precipitates a lot of arguments.

I shouldn't have said at that point that one of the dc doesn't respect him because he lets them them get away with everything. I should have stopped and walked away before that, true. But it wasn't out of the blue. He'd called me a dictator before then. At that point I should have walked away rather than retaliating. I regret that.[/quote]
Contrary to what a lot of MN thinks, I do think it’s helpful not to jump to assume all abuse is one-sided. Often it’s both. By looking at your own behaviour - hard as that can be - you may change the dynamic between you. Otherwise nothing will change. Of course if you do change your own behaviour but things still don’t improve, that is different, but can you say at the moment that you are always perfect? Life isn’t easy for either of you by the sound of it so I’d be surprised if the stress wasn’t affecting you too.

Original poster
Mebulbelet · 03/11/2021 09:20

@SecretDoor

Is he a SAHD by choice?
Happenstance more than choice at first. Now choice, he could get a p/t job at least. I don't mind though, up to him, luckily my salary is enough.
OP posts:
Original poster
Mebulbelet · 03/11/2021 09:24

I agree completely @Coronawireless

Of course i'm not perfect - not as a parent and not as a wife. And our SN child is incredibly challenging with serious and life threatening issues which were only diagnosed during adolescence. I fully admit DH is better with the SN child than I am. But I'm not a bad mum either, I do my best, flaws and all, in a difficult parenting situation.

OP posts: