October 2021 - well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Its late October 2021 now, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Picking up from previous thread
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/4182916-March-2021-Well-we-took-you-to-Stately-Homes-thread?pg=39

Forerunning threads since December 2007 are linked on the previous threads if you want to click back and have a look.

This thread has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Placemarking. I'm glad we're still going!

Into month 3 of NC with my toxic mother and every aspect of my life is better.

I did get flying-monkeyed by my dad today, and it really underlined for me that it's a system that I'm breaking off from, not just an individual. I guess part of me had hoped that I'd be able to compartmentalise off a good relationship with my dad, yet today he just showed up in the middle of the day while I'm working to import toxicity into my home.

What would have been optimal: Dad, good to see you & love you, but I'm at work now, let's catch up later.

What I did: freeze/comply like I always do, stop working and accommodate, let dad bimble around my house checking for unsatisfactory things (found several) and blame me going NC for my mother's new and recent plague of health problems. Ended up not getting any more work done and falling into a bottle of red wine. (I had been cautiously reintroducing the odd alcoholic drink among friends after 4 years of sobriety because I thought I could moderate, but here we go, properly falling off the wagon)

late, but that boat rocking analogy is brilliant and clarified my thinking properly about the systems/dynamics v individuals problem going on here.

@mindutopia

That made me shudder. Your mother is vile. Condoning a sex abuser and allowing him to be around other children. The withdrawing of her and launching flame throwers at you -so you will beg forgiveness to be invited into the fold again. Don't you dare questions her -shudder shudder shudder.
She's sending flying monkeys -and the best you can do is withdraw from anyone who seemingly takes her side. I blocked any mutual friends with my ex the minute they either leaked anything or passed on any message -literally they all knew what he had done (hit me) so as far as I was concerned -any passing messages or telling me how sad he was -equalled an instant block.

If they know she is with a known sex offender -and they continue to sympathise with her -they are not worth anything in your life

-can you email the local police or club they go to with the conviction and mention safeguarding and their names?

MM the hag sounds absolutely like a hissy princess doing a Miss Piggy impression when the cushion wasn't soft enough or something.

My anti depressants are really kicking in now and it really doesn't seem so dark and I had a constantly teeth grinding and gnawing and it's easying. I am really going to work on my self-esteem.

It's 7.30pm and I'm off to bed with youngest to watch Netflix (he'll be asleep shortly) a few episodes of the Good Witch -if you haven't seen in it's very cozy.

@Escapingafter50years when I tried to explain to my parents that I was seeing a counsellor they were only worried about 'what stories I was telling them' and then proceeded to whisper in loud hushed tones about IAAP's mental health problems. When I left their house after that fateful morning at 5/6am their soul concern is what I had 'told my friends' that's all they wanted to know followed by the 'address'. I'll never forget the moment, DD was talking to TF on the phone and crying and pleading for her to collect her stuff (she was 13) and him saying 'Ok my darling my little cherry, write an itemitised list of everything in your room and grandpa with make sure to get all the items on the list one by one but make sure you don't miss anything off as I might accidentally bin it' she was pleading and saying 'all the stuff in the room is mine. Please please please can I just come in with my suitcases and pack it' --she was on speakerphone sobbing and my two friends that I'd known for 20 years -husband and wife. The husband was a yorkshire man of a heart of gold and few words -he leaned over and asked DD for her phone and then said to TF -let me tell you what you are going to do -I've heard everything. You are going to pack up every item in her room and I'm going to come and get it -you have 2 hours. We arranged a meet and my father was there -he tried to engage my friends in conversation all jolly and both of them stone walled him totally. He tried to come towards me and friend was 6ft 6 and he just blocked him and said 'no' and my father scampered back in the car. Bullies are all concerned with how they look. But anyone else's feelings -no -just concerned about how upset they feel or how angry they feel.

Hugs to all. Sorry I bang on about my situation. This forum is a life saver for me.

God almighty. Some of these stories make me want to cry.

Going NC has been life-changing for me. The more time that passes, the more clarity I have about the toxic dynamics that were always at play. When I think back and remember examples of the awful behaviours I put up with, it feels almost unbelievable.

We put up with terrible things simply because these toxic people are "family". The old adage family is everything is complete bullshit.

The number one tip I would give to anyone who is going NC (which is really difficult), is to work hard on your emotional detachment from them. Also...

• try not to beat yourself up (you've had enough of that already, right?)

• DO NOT FEEL BAD/GUILTY (very difficult in practice I know, but none of this is your fault)

• feel proud of yourself for breaking the cycle of abuse (woo! go you!)

• be kind to yourself and accept that the healing process is a long road

• DON'T LET THEM BACK IN (because abusive people never change)

And like every recovery, sometimes we have to take it one day at a time.

I’m so sorry to read some of these stories, they are honestly horrifying and it’s heartbreaking to read.

Unbelievable doesn’t even seem to cover it, big hugs to you all! No one deserves to be treated this way, particularly not by someone they should be able to trust.

To look at someone you have brought into the world and should care for but instead choose to treat them in such a way and purposefully, repeatedly hurt them in such a cruel way is just vile!

Be thankful you are not made this way, and be proud of coming out of the darkness which has surrounded you.

@MonkeyfromManchester absolutely right as always, this behaviour is very toddler like or teenage attention seeking!! I am very grateful for DH & DC, it is exhausting to have to constantly battle such petty behaviour. There are people in the role with real worries problems though these self indulgent, egotistical lunatics want to create issues purely because they aren’t getting their own way

That should read there are people in the world with real worries…

@TirisfalPumpkin the system is the BEST way of describing it. It’s like some evil empire.

@IAAP Hag is amazingly inventive. Frankly, she’s not crossing this threshold EVER AGAIN. We’ve just had our bathroom done - if this iPad was waterproof I’d be in that bath 24/7! - for which we’ve really had to save. I couldn’t bear her to come in, be shown it and make some cutting remark.

She thinks I’m totally self-indulgent. And I’ve led MM down a path of some obscure medieval Irish sin of…I don’t know…HAVING A NICE FUCKING LIFE.

Your friend rocks. BRILLIANT. Your poor daughter and what a great way that you’ve come through it with a declutter.

@Sicario with bells on.

@Notmenottoday when you break their behaviour down it’s like dealing with a two year old or an especially unpleasant teenage girl. They’ve never grown up.

Hi all,

I've just recently gone LC with my mother. Once again when I went to her about marital problems she found a way to blame me and has been more supportive to my stbex

For years I thought it was me that was the issue. I was told I was a difficult child and am an attention seeker, drama queen, selfish. And it's only in the last few months I've realised that I've not had unconditional love from my parents. It is always dependant on me toeing the line.

It is relaxing not expecting her to land on my house at any moment. And even though I am going through a tough time with my marriage break up its better to not have her in the picture.

I'm so sorry to read some of your stories

@Deedee121 that sounds similar. Cutting remarks and not unconditional - as soon as you stand up for yourself as an adult they fight back but my therapist says it is all about healing that inner child and trying to replace your relationship with them with other positive relationship but it makes us vulnerable from people that sense our need for love. My dogs and children give me unconditional love. But I’ve been worried about gossip etc as before where we there were some flying monkeys from the ex and I often had gossip come back to me and it wasn’t nice.

MM I used to spend days and weeks cleaning for a visit from my parents. Give up my bedroom and I’d sleep in the spare room etc and make it all beautiful with flowers etc they would then moan about the dogs chickens guinea pigs etc all placed outside for their visit and how I need to put them down and focus on my career etc so I don’t blame you. My parents are the masters of visiting someone and then ripping apart their house, company, food etc on the way home in the car. They once invited someone round to their house abroad their thought he was a top accountant. He was a former debt collector for a company. He was jolly good company, funny, kind and was very much a non nasty debt collector - he told of people really struggling so if they could pay 50 p a week he’d tell the company to write off the debt etc when they left - his wife was a florist and had lovely style and knowledge amazing women and lovely children - my parents muttered under their breath never having them round again - and when they drove off - a 4 hours ripping apart and laughing at them occurred. It was vile. But they did it with everyone from their ‘friends the neighbours’ to family members - they tear everyone down. I used to wonder what they said about my children. They rip my siblings apart and their children and they were the golden children - god knows what they say about me or mine. The people that should love you the most constantly shredding you - awful.

I often feel with narcissists that their emotional development stopped completely around the age of six.

IAPP- sorry to say it does sound similar. I just can't imagine not unconditionally loving my children. I'm not a perfect mother by any stretch but my kids know they are loved

Hope it's ok to join, I am shamelessly looking for a bit of support

Short background is that I'm 48 and the adult child of an alcoholic and a narcissist. There was dv, neglect and emotional abuse. The last time one of my parents laid a hand on me I was 40 and 5 months pregnant with my 3rd dc.

I have 3 siblings - one emigrated, one cut my Mum off in March this year, and the eldest (who has the dubious honour of being golden child) is sticking with my Mum (Dad died 6 years ago) and prepared to see her through old age.

I cut contact with my Mum just 3 weeks ago. I never thought I would, although I always thought I should.

As a child I would fantasise about running away or being taken into care. I was scared all the time.

My Mum has done lots and lots of awful things. She is cold and cruel but tells me and anyone who'll listen how much she loves her children and what a close family we are. The best thing I can think to say about her is that she is a delusional lunatic, although sadly she is more rational than that and her abuse is very calculated.

I pulled her up on some really bad behaviour recently and told her I wanted a couple of weeks space. She turned up at my door and it descended into me screaming all the abuse she had done to me, for my whole neighbourhood to hear. Thankfully we are moving soon.

Anyway, I have now blocked her, dh is keeping me upright and (just about) functional and I know I will never go back.

If anyone here has cut off a parent, how long did it take for you to stop feeling in a state of shock/anxiety? Did it get easier?

In some ways I am elated because I have done something big for myself. But I am scared she will 'get me' like the bogeyman...I don't really know what I think she'll do, but I am struggling to go out on my own and sleeping a lot during the day for a bit of respite.

I don't want to ever see her again but I am having a hard time feeling 'allowed' to just cut her off. Any advice much appreciated.

Bob

Am very sorry to read what happened to you from childhood onwards.

You will need to grieve for the relationship you should have had rather than the one you actually got. Finding a good BACP registered therapist you can work with could benefit you no end.

I would be prepared for any flying monkeys (i.e well meaning but easily led relatives and people sent in by your mother to do her bidding for her. For example you may now hear from the golden child sibling). FMs have no interest in hearing your side of things so their opinion should be ignored.

@Deedee121 they just want to make you scream, don’t they? It is GREAT not having a Toxic landing in your home, particularly when you’ve made a lovely safe space for your loved ones. This is EXACTLY what i feel about my toxic MIL aka The Hag. I’ve made our home chilled and safe for Mr Monkey.

@MrsBobDylan Best name! Your mum sounds a nightmare. That’s horrible. I love the myth spinning the Toxics do - it’s LAUGHABLE. Can you check in with the siblings who’ve escaped and get support there? The sibling who’s cut her off will have the lowdown on any ‘guilt’. You are completely allowed to cut contact after all the abuse. If she turns up again, tell her that you CAN get a restraining order, especially if you report the last incidence of physical abuse. It sounds dramatic, but you would do that if it was an abusive partner. Keep strong.

@IAAP SO familiar - doing your best, putting their needs first, trying to please and it all thrown back in your face. the Hag had our room for 10 weeks over her joyful visitations over 20/21. No thanks and no sense of how difficult this was for us - me on agonising futon in my study, MM on sofa bed in living room. No privacy.

They do NOT give a toss. ALL ABOUT THEM!

She would imagine a long term future here with everything on her terms. Fuck that. If she was ever here again - this will NEVER happen - she will live in the grim shed.

That is horrible about your pets. Really nasty. Yep, narcs love a bitch fest. They feed off it. Hag has no friends or wider family that she sees so she can only direct her spleen at us. She bitches about me to slave BIL - when she was here, it was within EARSHOT. After all we’d done.

If you ever get the chance, drop them in it with Golden Children,
“Oh we’ll done on x’s amazing achievement, I hope the toxic parents aren’t as negative as they’ve been in the past. I don’t understand it as it’s such a brilliant thing”. GC won’t bring it up with them, but you’ve planted a seed about the shit about you. Then when they’ve bitching about you, they will start to perceive it differently. Or maybe that’s stirring it. The bitching says it all, doesn’t it? They don’t like ANYONE!

All quiet on The Hag front. Xmas not mentioned - hopefully, she won’t come to Mummy Monkey’s. I want to get to 2022 without seeing her vile face. I’m also going to send all the pictures of her to MM - I’ve got a good digital camera and MM hasn’t - as I do not want her in my iPhotos.
Slight guilt at being ‘unkind’, but fuck her.

ONWARDS.

@AttilaTheMeerkat you are spot on - my Mum brought the flyer monkey with her for the humiliating doorstep show down.

It was my Auntie and my Mum had clearly wound her up a treat, plus she doesn't want to have to deal with her sister and she was fucking furious at me.

I have blocked both of them now.

I hadn't thought about the grieving bit, but I think you are right. I felt like I was fighting to stay alive until now the war is over but I worry I won't move on or I am too wounded to be normal.

@MonkeyfromManchester that is so bloody true - in no other capacity in life does society encourage you to stick by and care for your abuser. I am really scared of seeing her. I can't wait till we move away. She won't have my address and it is a 3rd floor flat. Good times

@MonkeyfromManchester Thank you. Yes it is so weird to look back and remember all the times she went on about how much she loved me, yet now I realise her behaviour didn't ever reflect that sentiment, and that her "love" was purely conditional.

@IAAP Indeed, I suspect "mother" will be very bothered by the thought I am talking about her, she doesn't like other people to think badly of her. Your story about your TF and your DD is heartbreaking but a perfect illustration of the cruelty of these people behind closed doors.

@MrsBobDylan My story is similar to yours, alcoholic DF and narc "mother". I was brought up to believe that DF was responsible for everything that went wrong in our family, since he died over 10 years ago I have started to realise "mother" is far more abusive than he, who was violent when drunk, ever was. He stopped drinking when I was a teenager but was a disinterested parent.

Since he died she has consistently made my life difficult. Amongst many frustrating things she seemed to take a strange pleasure out of making meals out awkward. For example, we would go out somewhere to eat and she would waive a waiter over "Excuse me, excuse me" loudly and out of the blue. Then she would ask if they had anything vegetarian for me (an adult!) as "she's so difficult, she won't eat this and she won't eat that". I will eat anything vegetarian that is served up in front of me. A couple of years ago it dawned on me that she is the difficult one, not me, she complains all the time, demands service right now, doesn't like that fussy lettuce, the eggs aren't cooked enough, etc., and I have regularly left an extra tip because I have been so embarrassed by her. Yet, for years, before we even ordered food she had the staff thinking I was the bad guy.

My "mother" crossed a line a couple of months ago when she told me if I had been a proper mother she would have a better relationship with her grandchildren. Her only grandchildren are my adult children and she never babysat or helped me with them, couldn't bear them for more than 5 minutes and criticised my parenting all their lives. So I walked out, blocked her but sent a WhatsApp saying what she needed to do if she ever wanted a relationship. She hasn't replied by WhatsApp but left a performance voicemail and has had relatives from her side act as flying monkeys. But I'm not prepared to accept her shit anymore, she only brings stress in to my life and I would only be seeing her out of a sense of obligation. What she did recently has absolved me of that obligation.

It has been on my mind a lot as I have tried to process the last 50+ years and come to terms with the fact that she never loved me, she wanted a perfect puppet who she could abuse whenever she wanted to take her frustrations out on someone. I am realising that she never was who I needed her to be, she was not the mother I deserved and she will not change. I am now at the point where the thought of seeing her again fills me with far more horror than the thought of never seeing her again.

This is not my fault, I deserved better. I have done my best all my life but she has consistently failed me as a mother.

I had a session with my therapist yesterday (as advised here, find one who understands narcissism and is not all about keeping families together) and my therapist agreed that it is better for my mental health to go no contact with "mother" who is never going to change, and not to engage with the flying monkeys, also recommending I do not mention I don't want to see my "mother" again as this would bring on raging attacks. So, as advised by @therealsmithfield, I would just say that I am not able to deal with her at this time.

In the last few days I find I am thinking about her less, and when I do I am becoming clearer on the dysfunctionality of the things she did, obviously I will never know why and have to accept that. Having had to go NC with a sibling many years ago, I know she will eventually fade further away in my mind and my life will have a lot less drama in it. Hopefully this is of some help to you @MrsBobDylan

Oh crikey @Escapingafter50years I can relate to so much of what you wrote. I also feel that my Mum, who I'll refer to as bogeymum from now on, absolved of any duty with her recent behaviour.

During the door step saga, my Mum told me she didn't do anything and she's never hit me like my Dad had. Which was a lie because she was easily the most violent of the two. She threatened one sibling with a knife and used to kick us between the legs and drag us about by our hair when the mood took her.

She is incapable of love. The only joy she gets is from hurting people she has tricked into loving her.

I was the scapegoat and will avoid telling her that's us done forever because she will be vicious about it. My younger sibling was brave and sent a well-expressed message, but she, along with emigrated sibling, was a 'lost child' and therefore largely expendable and worthless to her.

I feel like the bogeymum will hunt me down. My role is to serve her, make her look good and to be punished whenever something good happened to me. Like you @Escapingafter50years, I am not much more afraid of seeing her than never seeing her again.

Bye the title of this thread has amused me for years because my Mum genuinely told me when I was late teens and dared to challenge her, that we were so lucky because they took us to stately homes

Gosh it's both comforting and tough finding other people in a similar position to me.

My mother was treated very badly by her mother so I can see that she hasn't broken the cycle with me. I definitely need to see someone and do some inner child healing.

My father has completely checked out of parenthood, to me and my siblings and yet it is accepted. Such a messed up family

@MrsBobDylan 3rd floor - lol. She might pop round with ladders! The violence - Jesus! Bogeymum is a brill nickname.

@Escapingafter50years the restaurant stuff is attention seeking worthy of a six year old. Hag makes a meal out absolutely hideous in a similar way “Mr Monkey, I don’t know what to choose, help me” “oh, I won’t eat all that”. Oddly, she behaves better when it’s just him. Then there’s a massive performance of huge tip. And before hand a huge drama of “nothing to wear”. She looks like a tramp. Dirty, in fact. THEN GO FUCKING SHOPPING. We have offered. They are attention seeking nightmares.

@Deedee121 it’s like a generational shit show. Hag had the same, but not enough self-awareness or desire to break the cycle. NONE of her siblings are like this.

I spoke too soon. We’ve just had Hag Narc Showtime. Mr Monkey is sick and lying on the sofa off work with chest infection. I’m recovering from awful cold and have not worked properly for two weeks so have worked flat out for last 3 days to catch up. I’m freelance. Don’t work, don’t get paid.

So, she’s just phoned. New rule is MM does not ring her everyday. Massive kick off -

why haven’t you phoned?
Because this is what we’ve agreed. I didn’t ring you every day before lockdown. I rang you every day during lockdown because you were isolating and you couldn’t see Slave BIL.
What’s lockdown?

She has this brilliant trick of not remembering. Although she moaned about it constantly and DOES know what it is. Not remembering is little old lady trick. Designed for sympathy and to elicit a backdown.

It does not work so she resorts to spleen.

MM does stuck record about the new rules on phone calls.

He’s getting brilliant at boundaries.

She’ll be stewing in the lair. We’re eating pizza.

She has no sense of how much is done for her and how her behaviour is disgusting and not worthy of our help.

Feel like going round and pushing her off her roof. FUCKING HAG.

My mother took me and DB to stately homes too. Incredible
She is still guilt tripping me by text. I don't know whether to reply and stand up for myself or leave it, if I leave it I will start getting letters in the post saying I want to destroy her.

@ScabbyHorse can we all have a whip-round, buy a stately home (I read Country Life for the property porn so I’m very happy to take on the research aspect), call it Toxic Towers and dump them all there. I imagine them all like some fucked up Agatha Christie novel.

Just leave it, block her. She’ll thrive on the ‘rejection’ if you explain and it’s more Narc Showtime. OF COURSE, SHE WILL NOT UNDERSTAND HER TOXIC PART IN THIS. But you know that. You’ll recognise her handwriting with a letter.

Straight. In. The. Bin.

Scabby

As Monkey rightly stated leave it. Do not respond ie open a door here that should remain closed. To such disordered of thinking people also a response is the reward because they know they have you then.

Shred or otherwise dispose of any letters without opening. Do not give these any power.

Would also prepare for any flying monkeys that she could send in now to do her bidding for her.

@MonkeyfromManchester Toxic Towers is inspired!!

Re: murder, dh actually said that he is glad I cut the bogeymum off, because although he was willing to wipe her stain from humanity permanently , he reckoned she'd be like a cockroach after a nuclear explosion and survive.

@ScabbyHorse definitely block her. Although make sure you block her across all the platforms (bitter experience).

Bogeymum has just driven and stopped outside our house. DH spotted her and ran down to close the door. Why did she do that? I am so scared of her and now I won't be able to unload shopping from the car for fear of her turning up.

I had just managed to do my first Tesco shop for two weeks and now I don't know if I can leave the house.

I really, really want to move and vanish from her life.

In other news, I woke up at 5am this morning worrying about the fact I won't give her an Xmas present. Xmas was the worst time of the year growing up (and ruined by her every year since).

Sometimes she wasn't happy with the present so it would make me nervous because she would be very cold with me.

One year for Mother's Day she actually refused to take the flowers I had bought her. Golden sibling always bought really lovely expensive bouquets but we couldn't afford them. She enjoyed humiliating me.

Competitive bouquet-receiving, @MrsBobDylan - love it. The rules of gift etiquette are completely incomprehensible and non reciprocal around these people, and they seem to change at random. We never even did mother's day (or father's day, or anything else like that) until one year toxic mum decided we did, in fact, do mother's day and sulked that we hadn't read her mind & flowers had not been forthcoming. After saying repeatedly it was awful and tacky and commercial, for years.

Anybody else find stately homes deathly boring, anyway? Even as an adult. I can appreciate some nice art and textiles and it's fun if they were owned by an eccentric, but they all kind of look the same after a bit, and smell funny. I don't think even the parents enjoyed them. If I ever have kids, I'm taking them to a theme park.

@MonkeyfromManchester I love love love this idea!