If you’re a selfish person, are you a good parent?

[bridepanic]

I’m considering whether I want to have children or not, and wanted to canvas some opinions on a specific concern I have. Please bear with me - I’m about to be very honest and harsh with myself.

I’m a very self-centered person. I don’t know how else to describe it! Throughout my life I really have had to fight against a base instinct of selfishness, which isn’t necessarily born of nastiness but mostly out of a feeling that my feeling and happiness is the most important thing. I put myself before others, although I am a very good daughter and friend and partner - it’s something I’ve worked hard to be and my fiancé and best friends have really helped me get over myself a bit in my adult life! Despite this, my basic nature is to put myself before others, including the ones I love. I’m an only child who had very loving, time-rich parents and I think probably I never really got over feeling like the most important person in their universe.

Anyway - all this character assassination to say - I don’t know if I will be able to parent if my core personality is so me-focussed. Does anyone have any experience of this, either themselves or their partners? Will I feel happier putting my children before myself, might it come naturally to me in a way it never has before? Other than this I actually would quite like children, and my fiancé would be an incredible father as he is the MOST selfless person I have ever met, and would balance me out on that front. Is that enough? I don’t want to be a crap parent, and my fiancé is quite confident that I wouldn’t have this problem if we actually had kids because I’d experience that selfless parental love. Might this be true?

The things you mention that appeal about having a DC, eg ‘special’ festive times, are a tiny proportion of parenting.

I loved festivities pre DC and often put a lot of time and effort in, eg for birthdays and xmas, but since becoming a parent - primarily due to the additional domestic work and having much less leisure time - now find it just another chore, indeed worse, I actively dread these times as it’s the ‘final straw’ when am not on top of things. It’s also ‘emotional labour’ to hide this. Lots if MN threads about xmas suggest I’m not the only one who feels this way - a common theme is fathers not ‘pulling their weight’.

Agree with PPs that learning to drive is important if you decide to have DC. For YOU!

As regards your current set up, you mention that your DP does more of both your admin than you do. That’s a small fraction of domestic work. What’s the split between you of shopping for food, planning and cooking food, cleaning, laundry? Do you spend a similar amount of time overall on domestic work? (Admin takes much less time than cooking and cleaning, for example).

If he really does more than 50%, that’s not fair and you should do more!

A great antenatal class teacher we had encouraged discussions pre-DC about the ‘drudge’ parts of parenting and the significantly increases domestic work. Eg ‘DH, will you share the night parenting and early mornings equally? Eg for three years if DC is a bad sleeper. Feeding (once DC eats food), extra laundry cleaning. A VERY big one is will he do 50% of the weekday childcare runs, morning and evening (curtailing working time).

My H does more domestic work and parenting than the vast majority of fathers I know, but I think overall, since DC, I did 80% in the first few years and still do 70% and him 30%. (He would probably say 60/40). We both work FT. Which is unfair and has affected my thoughts and feelings for him.

If your DP SAYS he’s up for all that, AND he currently does 50% or more now of domestic work, that’s a good sign IMO! But it’s still a gamble.

(My DC are now teens. The additional domestic work continues!)

As a parent there are times you not only can't be selfish, you have to be downright self-sacrificing.
Your child's life & well-being depends on you so no, if you'd always put yourself first & above your kid's needs then no, you are not going to be a good parent.

(A reasonable amount of selfishness is a good thing though, nobody wants a martyr for a parent either! You do have to put yourself first sometimes - so when your 18yo asks to pick you up from train station and you are alread iin bed it's ok to tell him no. he can walk 10mins in the rain ffs!)

I'd like to suggest you get a puppy to see if you could take care of another living being and put their needs first - but honestly I can't even suggest that in good consciousness because it'd be terrible if after a few weeks or months you realised you can't cope and wanted to get rid of it.
Animals are not toys, a dog is not just for Christmas!

I'm not sure what could successfully mimic having a baby and realising that your life will never be the same again, that there's a new boss in town who doesn't care about you or your needs at all and there's zero chance for negotiation.

Not everyone is cut out to be a parent and that's fine.
Not long ago someone posted that they knew didn't want kids, ended up having one and that it was the worst decision and they deeply regretted it.
It was heartbreaking to read.
So if you think parenthood is not for you then don't have kids, sorry to be blunt.
And if your fiance wants kids and you don't then it's best to be brutally honest and end the relationship now, because he won't ever get over wanting kids either.
all the best

I am naturally a selfish person who really doesn’t like giving of myself. I’ve always been that way, from a child really and my eldest is quite similar.

However I am a very giving parent. I took the view that by having them, they had to come first and it was for a short period of time.

I believe that children should be the centre of your world for the time you have them but I always maintain some hobbies and a career.

There are days when I want to just be alone but I push myself to lean into motherhood.

@Lottapianos

'What is it about having children that you think you would like?'

Very very important question to ask yourself, and to answer it with your eyes wide open

'Selfish' is a word with very negative connotations. To me, you sound very self-aware, pragmatic, and with a healthy sense of your own needs and wants. None of that is anything to be ashamed of. That said, being a parent is absolutely not for everyone. I have had periods of my life when I desperately longed to have a baby, but I knew that I would not have coped well with the reality. I have my wistful moments but I don't regret my decision not to have children. It's very important to me to have time and energy to devote to myself, my relationship and my friendships (yes, in that order!)

Please ditch any ideas about 'maternal love' turning you into a different (and by implication, better) person. It's far too big a gamble. Stay pragmatic

Good post from @Lottapianos. I agree that you in fact sound healthily aware of your own needs, OP, and that there’s nothing wrong with considering yourself first — I think a lot of women’s lives would be happier if they prioritised themselves more. But as someone who does prioritise herself and who is also a parent, I also agree with @Lotta that having a baby doesn’t necessarily change you in any fundamental way. It didn’t in my case. I think I’m a decent, loving parent, but my life certainly doesn’t revolve around my son, and I think it’s no harm at all for him to view family life as needing to cater to everyone’s needs, and that sometimes mine will take precedence.

I certainly wouldn’t recommend you to have a child while believing that as soon as you’ve given birth, you will be transformed by maternal love. Having said that, I don’t think it’s necessary, or even a particularly good thing, for parents to be ‘selfless’.

Interesting question. I’m not sure I would describe myself as “selfish” but definitely meeting my own needs (having a good career, time for exercise and going out with friends etc) is really important to me. I actually think it makes me a better parent (when I am happy the children are happy!). So I think being a bit selfish can actually help your survive parenthood. Of course it could swing the other too and your selfishness could make you a terrible parent. No one here can tell you which of those two things apply to you. The fact that you are aware you are sometimes selfish is a good sign I think. The ultimate question is whether you WANT to be a parent (and that means putting your own needs second quite a lot of the time!). There is no shame in not having children if you prefer your life without them. But I wouldn’t NOT have children just because I’m worried I’m “selfish”, if I wanted them, it that makes sense.

You are healthily self aware! I see children as being part of a family not the centre of it, as that creates narcissism and entitlement. It's a tricky balance though. I've always maintained hobbies, friendships and a career.

However as I get to my late 40s I'm letting a lot of friendships go... Mainly as I feel I have a lot of selfish friends who drain me, I need to put some boundaries in place with them! Work is so busy now but I love it after previously having hated it (recent change of career). I just wanna focus on that and my DC now.

My own parents are quite selfish and that's been hard. In lots of ways. But I think modern day parenting has swung too much the other way. My sister plays with my niece for 2 hours before school every morning and panders to her every whim. Niece is a brat and sister is exhausted.

Different view here. Read Richard Dawkins “The Selfish Gene”. Bit depressing OP, but if you are as you say a truly selfish person then his theory might suggest that you would simply transpose your selfishness into fighting for the wants needs and requirements of your offspring? So you would actually remain selfish but on their behalf. It’s not a very nice thought, because it flies in the face of parents trying to work collaboratively and create a overall caring society which looks out for one another. But I suppose in that sense you could say that in terms of having the backs of your kids, you might actually be a very very good parent…just not a particularly nice person to know or associate with???

How about this:

Selfish and unaware of it = unhappy kids
Selfish and aware of it = unhappy parent

Let go of the Christmas thing for one. You might end up with a child like mine who finds heavily hyped occasions like Christmas overwhelming! Christmas has not been in any way magical since we had a child. It's much more rubbish than before and much more stressful trying to get presents right etc. Although she was born on Boxing Day so it's a bit different.

@AlfonsoTheUnrepetant

One of the reasons I chose not to have children was that I was afraid of not being able to prioritise a child's wants and needs over my own.

I have never, ever regretted that decision.

Same here.

I also believe very strongly that children should be actively wanted and chosen, because that gives the most chance that they (and their parents) will be happy.

@mbosnz

I have three friends that openly state that they didn't have kids because they were selfish, and didn't want to de-prioritise themselves for kids.

I really applaud them for that self awareness.

Kids are emotional vampires and money pits. They're also the best things we ever did with our life, and we begrudge nothing - but if you don't really, really want 'em, think hard!

This. Unless you really want kids don't have them. As for PPs saying you can encourage independence in your children by being selfish this only works if you have children that are capable of that. Your child could have SEN or a disability or anxiety or developmental delays or a chronic illness or simply be shy and need more support. There's a whole world of what ifs that come with having children. If you only feel capable of being a parent in the best case scenario, where your child is independent and will play quietly while you sleep in and sit quietly while you eat out and have special occasions that are fun and easy then you really shouldn't be bringing a child into this world.

Parenting is about nurturing - first attuning to and then attending to the specific, changing and sometimes demanding needs of another so that they grow into contented, balanced and productive members of society … it’s an investment of vast amounts your patience, emotional energy and time over decades - and you may have two children with conflicting needs. There is lots of payback but it’s often subtle and fleeting externally (Christmas etc) it’s more about love and connection.

I am concerned that you don’t feel any need to attune or attend to nurturing the relationship you already have with your fiancé, even though you are aware that you are behaving in an exploitative and entitled way. I would start practicing there - giving more rather than taking and see how you feel.

@Phineyj

Let go of the Christmas thing for one. You might end up with a child like mine who finds heavily hyped occasions like Christmas overwhelming! Christmas has not been in any way magical since we had a child. It's much more rubbish than before and much more stressful trying to get presents right etc. Although she was born on Boxing Day so it's a bit different.

@Phineyj

I agree. Romantic fantasies about how lovely special occasions will be are a total red herring when it comes to deciding about starting a family.

I've lost count of how many Christmas (holiday, birthday, special days...) plans were ruined or had to be altered because of illnesses & injury.
Now the magic of Christmas for me is when we don't end up in A&E between Christmas Eve & New Year's Day!🤣
Seriously, whenever someone asks "so how was Christmas?" I say "there were no emergencies so good!"

We have traditions we like and of course when things tick along nicely we have a good time, but I have no unrealistic expectations and fairytale fantasies.

You aren’t passive in this though, whether or not you put yourself first is a choice and is completely in your control.

From what you have said you are choosing to put yourself first above your partner at the moment, perhaps you ought to focus on whether you can change that and create more fairness in your relationship before you bring children into the mix. If you can’t then this unfairness will just be exacerbated when you have children and I can imagine he will end up resenting you.

I’m an introvert and I do tend to want prioritise what I want to do but thats from having my need unmet as a child I think. Probably a bit selfish I would say

Tbh I think I’m a good parent (only a toddler so I have years in which to fuck this up). My DD is a ridiculously happy little girl, I try to help her with growing independence. I encourage independent play (by basically sitting quietly and not drawing attention to myself when she’s engaged in something) but I also drop everything immediately if she wants to read a book with me etc.

It has cost me tbh, I don’t think I should have had a child, not because she’s not well cared for and loved etc but because its grinding me down having to grit my teeth and be happy and engaged when I really would like to be just left alone. I would never put her needs behind mine but that’s because above my selfishness I do have a sense of duty, I created a human being on purpose and she deserves the best I can give her.

So I think you can be a good parent if you are naturally selfish is you are able to de-prioritise yourself. If you can’t you really really shouldn’t do it. Kids don’t ask to be born but they do have to live with the consequences.

@bridepanic

Single child here. I was the center of my mom’s world. Still expect her to put my interests first. Etc, etc. So I can relate.

I had kids for myself. Had a strong desire to have them because like you I thought it’d be fun and I had a lot I could give them.
Thing is - having kids doesn’t mean completely forgetting about your needs. Prioritising them over you doesn’t actually happen all the time - and to the extent you think it does.
There are some daily things where their needs do take over - like eating and sleeping schedule, basic care needs, etc. And on this - yes - Mother Nature did give us caring instinct. It’s on some basic pre-cognisant level in our brains. You are unlikely to turn around in the bed and go to sleep if your child is saying they are hungry.

The other type of selfishness you are talking about is the learned behaviours. And you seem to be aware of those, and managing them well - since you have managed to form and maintain a relationship.

So - don’t overthink to much. Everybody, well, many people, wonder if they’d be good parents. It’s natural. You are quite self aware, so it’s already a good start.

(And btw - I don’t drive either. But i don’t need to where I live and life is perfectly OK with my kids.)

I consider myself quite a selfish person but my daughter comes before all else in life. She's now 18 and I think she'd agree that I raised her well to be a well rounded young adult. Her dad, on the other hand (ex) is selfish to the exclusion of all others and she no longer sees him. I guess it depends on how selfish you really are? If you have kids I would just choose to have one if I were you.

No op don’t do it

It makes parenting incredibly difficult when you feel like this

I had an inking I’d find it awfully hard because yes I’m also an adored only child

I was right

My Dsis best friend at Uni was a very very selfish girl-she could be lovely and fun but she definitely prioritised herself and her feelings, wants, needs etc above everyone elses. Very pretty and very high maintenance.

A few years later she married and had children (which she knew she was very keen to do so maybe bit different to you) and it was as if a switch flipped in her head.
They were pushing prams together one day and it started to rain heavily-to my Dsis's astonishment her friend held her umbrella only over the baby-getting soaked and ruining her hair during the walk home-which would have been unthought of pre children.

I just wanted to share an experience of someone who was very selfish but was transformed by motherhood.

I think you are very sensible to explore these feelings and also to make sure you are having them (if you do) for the right reasons!!

@bridepanic do you think that you need to raise children the way your parents raised you?

Is their standard maybe an intimidating or overwhelming bar for you?

Do you believe they were perfect parents?

Also interested in your username …. anything else going on there?

Ahh thank you so much for all the advice and discussion - I am finding it incredibly interesting and helpful to think about it all. I’m a very analytical person so this is really great for me to ask myself some questions!

On the point with mine and my fiancé’s relationship, I pull my weight in other areas of the relationship so we’re pretty evenly matched, and we do have very open channels of communication so when he starts feeling overwhelmed or put-upon and like I’m starting to take the piss he feels very able to discuss it and we work out what to do to redress the balance - it works very well for us! Equally I do the same with him in other aspects of our lives. Totally understand the questioning but neither of us take advantage of the other one, and we have a healthy, extremely happy relationship. I’m very aware of how imbalances cause resentments and so try very hard to fight against my natural instincts to lean into that.

I’m very interested in the questions about my own upbringing being offering an idealised view of what I should be like as a parent - I think people are really on to something. Without getting too deep into it, for extremely fortunate reasons both my parents were able to be at home for my childhood (Mum a SAHM, my Dad retired when I was 5), and so being parents was the main part of their lives at that point. They had hobbies and friends and interests but, particularly for my Mum, they were very subsumed in parenting and so for me that’s my example. I think I’ve seen the benefits of that as a child and the flaws of it when I look at how my Mum has struggled to move on from that in ny adult life, and has now taken on the care of her elderly parents to replace that I think. All very interesting and things I think to consider.

(My username was just picked when I had a wedding query - not having cold feet!)

I’m incredibly selfish. But my DS is basically part of me. My hair, my eyes. We eat the same stuff because he’s been raised on my cooking. We like the same things because he’s spent years watching what I watch on tv, going places I go and doing stuff that I do. My selfishness now includes me and him, we are a package. It’s hard to explain but things that would normally be a sacrifice if I had to do them for someone else, aren’t, because I’m doing them for my own child, which is basically the same as doing them for myself. I still don’t give a crap about anyone except us two.

Once your selfless partner has a baby to care for, rather than another adult, it is quite likely that they will devote most of their energy to the baby/child. That change will be permanent and can profoundly effect the dynamics of your relationship. Something to be aware of.