If you’re a selfish person, are you a good parent?

[bridepanic]

I’m considering whether I want to have children or not, and wanted to canvas some opinions on a specific concern I have. Please bear with me - I’m about to be very honest and harsh with myself.

I’m a very self-centered person. I don’t know how else to describe it! Throughout my life I really have had to fight against a base instinct of selfishness, which isn’t necessarily born of nastiness but mostly out of a feeling that my feeling and happiness is the most important thing. I put myself before others, although I am a very good daughter and friend and partner - it’s something I’ve worked hard to be and my fiancé and best friends have really helped me get over myself a bit in my adult life! Despite this, my basic nature is to put myself before others, including the ones I love. I’m an only child who had very loving, time-rich parents and I think probably I never really got over feeling like the most important person in their universe.

Anyway - all this character assassination to say - I don’t know if I will be able to parent if my core personality is so me-focussed. Does anyone have any experience of this, either themselves or their partners? Will I feel happier putting my children before myself, might it come naturally to me in a way it never has before? Other than this I actually would quite like children, and my fiancé would be an incredible father as he is the MOST selfless person I have ever met, and would balance me out on that front. Is that enough? I don’t want to be a crap parent, and my fiancé is quite confident that I wouldn’t have this problem if we actually had kids because I’d experience that selfless parental love. Might this be true?

I think I was probably a selfish person. I focused on my career and my house/lifestyle. I had always avoided marriage because it seemed like a risk-ridden opportunity to be abused. I'd watched my mum be miserable for years and there was no way I would set myself up for the same. I was completely commitment-phobic and very keen on protecting my freedoms.

Then I fell pregnant with DS . I'd cut my own head off to protect and provide for him. I still would, even now he's a teen, although I'm teaching him that sometimes mum needs to come first and he has to deal with that. He's cheerful & well balanced so yes, I guess I am a good parent, better than I ever imagined.

Such a good point about what it is about children you think you might like.

Personally, I hope I'm not a selfish person but I do know that I prioritise getting my 8 hours sleep at night above pretty much everything else. That need is important to me. Kids would royally fuck that up. So, hard pass. I dont think that makes me selfish, it makes me someone who makes choices based on what works and doesn't work for her.

Plus the cons outweigh that of the pros for me kid wise too. I very much appreciate my independence and being able to do what I want to do when I want to do it. That potentially goes out of the window with kids. At least early on.

I think if your base impulse is to put your needs first as and when they arise then kids would feel very draining and like a ball and chain. There's really no reason to inflict that on yourself. There are plenty of other life choices and adventures you can have.

Very self centred and selfish me. But I try and make a point of recognising this and asking how the other person is. I am a good parent. I'm proud of my parenting.

OP, i would have described myself a bit like you before i had children. A bit entitled should i say, because i was one of 6, the youngest and overall, spoiled.
But being a parent changed so much about me, I almost don’t recognise the person i was back then.
I love being a mum. I am now (early) pregnant with DC2. Being a parent changes so much about you - if you long to be a mum, you will put your childs needs and wants above your own. Theres no love like the love you have for your own little person.

I am not especially altruistic and think I’m a good parent, have ‘easy’ DC (so far), but often find it exhausting! I dislike all the extra domestic work and having much less free time.

Wouldn’t assume your fiance would be a ‘selfless’ father: the vast majority aren’t IMO! Eg in ways like doing the extra domestics, night time, early morning and weekday parenting, curtailing their working time.

Someone I know who was (IMO) very self absorbed pre DC is quite selfless as a parent, now she’s absorbed with her DC, DH and self!

' I dont think that makes me selfish, it makes me someone who makes choices based on what works and doesn't work for her.'

Absolutely. So important to be realistic about what you can handle and how much you want to take on. No medals for martyrdom

I don’t want to be a crap parent, and my fiancé is quite confident that I wouldn’t have this problem if we actually had kids because I’d experience that selfless parental love. Might this be true?

I doubt it. Sounds like wishful thinking to me.

Your post rings very true with me. I'd call myself a decent person, a good friend and partner to my DH. But I am quite selfish in a way. I'm an introvert, I like time to myself, I get stressed out if I can't have time to myself and things the way I want them. I'm also very self-critical of that and the negative impact it has on my parenting, which leaves me like an emotional see-saw a lot of the time.

Just like you, I have a partner who is selfless and ever-calm and a wonderful parent, so that definitely helps, and I do think I'm mostly a good parent because I'm very loving and largely that's what a child needs. But sometimes I get stressed when the very nature of having young children means I have no opportunity to be selfish or put myself first. It's not like I make a choice to put them first because having them suddenly opened my eyes to the wonders of being selfless. I just have to put them first because there's no other option. Which is kind of depressing sometimes.

In summary, it's not all sunshine and roses. I know they'd probably be better off if both their parents were as good as their dad is.

I think you’d be kidding yourself to assume that a wave of selfless love will naturally wash away your basic personality just because you have kids.

I think a baby gives you little choice other than to prioritise their needs. Meeting their needs is the only way (apart from actual constant neglect) to get any peace. Harder is when they get older and their needs seem less urgent. They still need to be prioritised and, sometimes in very challenging ways, but are not going to scream and cry to get that.

For example, I’m on holiday with my kids and really need to recharge quietly on my own when the clingy toddler sleeps. But I know my older two have been a bit neglected recently so I meet their emotional needs by playing cards or chatting with them rather than snoozing or mumsnetting all of nap time. My needs have to wait until they’re in bed at the moment but if I was selfish I could easily constantly put myself first in a way that would ultimately damage them emotionally.

Gosh, thank you so much for your replies everyone! I really appreciate people taking the time to feedback and give me advice, and the people who have said that the questions I'm asking are sensible not selfish. A lot to think about, but I'll try and respond to some more general questions...

Why do I think I might want them? Such a good question! I think my answer feels quite nebulous - I sometimes think I would get a lot of joy from it! I think I have a very good sense of fun and excitement and magic, and so does my fiancé, and I think there's a lot about parenting that we would love and be very good at. For example, the idea of creating Christmas with a child of my own feels very special. I think I would be a very good Mum at things like that, and I had a pretty wonderful childhood with parents who loved to make things special (I don't know how else to describe it!) and I can see that doing that for my own family would be amazing. I also love the idea of reading with my child and things like that, and the thought of my fiancé being a father makes me feel like I would like to do that with him. Does that make sense? It's more of a feeling than an explainable list.

In answer to a few people asking how I'm selfish... I suppose that a good example would be that sometimes I can really see that my partner is taking on way too much of the emotional household labour (bills, life admin etc.) but I so don't want to take on any of it that I don't help in the way I should. He also does all the driving, because I have no interest in learning to drive, despite him asking me to to help out. I'm not completely lazy or anything, but those are definitely examples!

Also, when my Mum sold my childhood home a few years ago for very valid reasons for making her life much easier and better after my Dad died, I really, strongly felt that she should have stayed in the old home because I wanted her too, and when she put herself first I never truly forgave her in my heart (although she doesn't know that I feel so strongly about it still.)

You've all given really thoughtful answers with food for thought. I'm particularly interested in the people who felt like me and are parents - I guess something that puts me off (and my fiancé too!) is the pervading idea of having to subsume your whole self into parenting. It's nice to hear from people who aren't like that.

I'm probably a self centered person tbh. I do often resort to thinking of my own needs first and foremost.

Anyway... I'm a mum of two. I do find it hard that I often have to not only put their wants and needs first, but often just totally disregard my own entirely! Most of my week is spent doing stuff I don't really want to do (on mat leave with my second atm) like going to the park, homework, wrestling baby for naps and milk feeds. However, i love them lots and they do bring me joy. I might not want to go to soft play for example, but when my eldest runs up to me for a cuddle it feels lovely.

Basically if you're a good person, you probably won't be selfish as a parent. But not because you suddenly don't want to be, rather just because you have no choice, unless you want to be a neglectful unloving parent (aka not a good person). So you'll just be forced to put your own needs and desires on the backburner for years, which may not make you very happy at times.

@Dozer

I am not especially altruistic and think I’m a good parent, have ‘easy’ DC (so far), but often find it exhausting! I dislike all the extra domestic work and having much less free time.

Wouldn’t assume your fiance would be a ‘selfless’ father: the vast majority aren’t IMO! Eg in ways like doing the extra domestics, night time, early morning and weekday parenting, curtailing their working time.

Yes, don’t assume your fiancé will be a selfless father. Looking at my friends and family with young children, it is always the mother who makes the majority of the sacrifices that young children require - going part-time at work, taking on more of the housework and ‘mental load’ , cutting back their social life and free time, doing the night wakings and early mornings, that kind of thing.

I would say that my DH is one of the most involved fathers I know - he took shared parental leave, is perfectly competent in looking after DD on his own, would never refuse to babysit if I wanted to go out, does his share of school runs, but I can see that he doesn’t automatically put her first in the way that I do. For example, we went out to lunch with friends recently, and although DD was sitting between us, I noticed that he started looking at the menu to see what he wanted to eat, while I was looking at the children’s menu to see what DD could have. If I’d asked him to check the menu for DD, he would have done, but it wasn’t his first thought. It’s a minor thing and not worth complaining about, but it’s there.

Whether that’s some kind of maternal instinct, or social conditioning, I don’t know, but it makes a difference.

Ask him what he really means when he says he’d make up for you being selfish - taking shared parental leave, going part-time, arranging flexible working so he can do nursery / school drop-off and pick-ups, cutting down on hobbies and social life for the first few years of parenthood, that kind of thing?

@bridepanic

I know this is entirely beside the point but I'd really recommend learning to drive if you're going to have a child. Your life will be so much easier.

TBH.... you don't actually sound like a selfish person - just someone who is emotionally self-aware. Being selfish would have been scolding your mum for selling the house. You are entitled to feel however you feel.

@EllieQ

He doesn't say he'd make up for me being selfish - I said that! He does that in our day to day life as it is, and I have no reason at all to imagine he would be different as his actions speak louder than words. As I posted above, he takes on more emotional labour in the home as it is already by far. We have a relatively good plan in place for if we decide to have children (can you tell I'm a Type A?!) which includes shared parental leave and him going part time as well as possibly me, depending on how my career has progressed by that point. He's not a hobby guy, he doesn't go out drinking with friends, none of those common complaints I see on here. We've also discussed things like me not breastfeeding so I don't get stuck doing all the feeding and he's very supportive of whatever on that front.

None of my concerns are around that, to be honest, my worries are more that I would fall into that typical Mumsnet shit Dad role that I read about from so many women on here.

[quote zoemum2006]@bridepanic

I know this is entirely beside the point but I'd really recommend learning to drive if you're going to have a child. Your life will be so much easier.

TBH.... you don't actually sound like a selfish person - just someone who is emotionally self-aware. Being selfish would have been scolding your mum for selling the house. You are entitled to feel however you feel.[/quote]
Such a good point re. driving - I do think this all the time! My SIL has just had a baby and can't drive and she says it's awful having to rely on public transport and lifts and she regrets it hugely. Thanks for the advice!

I am selfish and it has affected my parenting. Certainly, the love I have for my DC has helped decrease my selfishness, but I do have to work hard at being less so and putting DC first.

OP, I also think that you have bags more self-awareness than my selfish parents had. Even if you are self-centered, this is in your favour.

I didn’t know how selfish I was until my dc was born. I’m a shit mum. I wish I knew how bad a mum I was going to be before I got pregnant.

It’s good you have insight about yourself now. Definitely leave it for a few years because you’re not sure about it.

A truly selfish person wouldn't think they are (my mother's one, has no self awareness whatsoever and always moans/blames others, would never think she was in the wrong about anything) so the fact that you are questioning this shows self awareness and the ability to put someone else first. However, motherhood is not easy and many times you have to put your children first and yourself last so you really need to have a strong desire to have a child.......... Not just for christmas🎅🎄😂

I certainly don't think that the love for your child automatically makes you less selfish as a person / parent. I'd do anything for my DC and my love is unconditional, but my God, sometimes it takes everything I've got to put their needs first. Especially true for the early years when I was beyond exhausted and still, everything mattered but me. Or so it felt and it was really hard! I certainly felt like the shittiest mum on the planet for a long time. Precisely until DC were more independent and I could start looking after myself again. So I guess that makes me pretty selfish too.

Especially true for the early years when I was beyond exhausted and still, everything mattered but me. Or so it felt and it was really hard! I certainly felt like the shittiest mum on the planet for a long time

Yeah, basically you can be selfish and still be a good parent who puts your kids' needs first. It's just that that can make you very miserable sometimes. I would've loved to have known that before I had them.

I’m not generally selfish, and had lots of energy to put in to children. It’s still absolutely exhausting, and in fact I’ve had to find my selfishness again in order to survive amid the demands of family life. So I wouldn’t say being selfish was ultimately going to make you a bad parent long term. But you’ll have to dig deep to manage 0-5yrs.

I know a handful of very self centred people who have become parents. One thing that they all have in common is being mentally ill. Self awareness is the difference between having on not having a lack of capacity to do what is needed in order to be a decent parent.
One of them dumped most of the work of parenting on her OH. She is an MH professional and has hidden her MH problems for many years. She was also very spoiled only child. She has an alternative narrative for the early years which indicates her lack of self awareness.

One has very serious MH problems and other people look after her children now. She lives in a complete fantasy land and has no self awareness.

One is very grounded about his MH problems and does not pretend that he can do more than is realistic. Mostly.

I’d say that most of the people who talk about selfish parents being damaging to their child are talking about people with low awareness of their impact, and possibly mental ill health is part of that lack of awareness.

OP you sound self aware... but none of us know if contributing to your self centredness is a disconnect between the world as you see it and the reality.

@EvenMoreFuriousVexation

my fiancé is quite confident that I wouldn’t have this problem if we actually had kids because I’d experience that selfless parental love. Might this be true?

In short, no.

Well, it MIGHT happen the moment you set eyes on your newborn . But there's absolutely no guarantee.

On the other hand, if you were a rather selfish Mum, a very unselfish generous Dad might redress the balance from the child's POV.

    I am wondering if your doubts are not so  much a reflection on your own character, as on the high bar set by  your parents?  They gave you such a wonderful , cherished childhood, that would  be hard to live up to  as a mum.  My parents were the other sort; they meant well but  both had some pretty blatant  failings that impacted my childhood in ways that made me determined  those things would  never happen to  MY children.  So I was also driven by my own experiences as a child, to be a top parent. 

I wasn't, of course. I didn't copy my parents failings, I just blotted my copybook in different ways.

   Someone once told me,  forget being a perfect parent. All  we need to aim for, is being   a  "good enough" parent.