Why do you think he responded like this?

[EndlessRose]

I know what I think this is but I'm curious to see how others would interpret it.

It's not exciting - sorry about that!

My boyfriend goes out with his friends one evening a week for a drink. His biggest complaint since lockdown lifted has been that everywhere is so quiet. He says he likes striking up conversations with random strangers.

Except that, when we went out on Friday, a random stranger struck up a conversation with us. Well me, because my boyfriend just ignored him. And was coldly silent to the extent that in the end this man said, "Well, I think I'm going to go now," and awkwardly left.

Seemed a bit odd for someone who claims that random chats with strangers can really make the evening.

I know what I think was going on but what's your first thought?

OP it sounds like you’ve started to believe that his negative attitude towards you reflects his true feelings towards you.

Negging isn’t done because there’s a lack of attraction, it’s done to undermine the confidence of someone, so that they seek the approval of the person doing it and so they’re not confident enough to leave them. He’s doing it because he is attracted to you and he’s an insecure idiot.

so he couldn’t even bring himself to pretend to his mate of 40 years

I think this is about hiding his true feelings for you, rather than not being able to pretend he’s attracted to you.

and the ones like me because we’re not young and pretty anymore. Not in his eyes anyway

I doubt he thinks of you as not young and pretty anymore, otherwise why are you making him so insecure that he has to avoid giving you any compliments at all costs.

I just wanted to say that because I couldn’t bear the thought of this emotionally immature creep undermining your self esteem even in the slightest way. I do think you should split up with him sooner rather than later, in case you get stuck with him for some reason. Don’t waste another second with him.

Thanks. Tbh, it's not eroded my self esteem. Possibly because it couldn't get much lower 🤷🏻‍♀️

But I don't see how it could be a successful tactic. I wouldn't seek reassurance or approval from him because all I get is criticism and put downs. So I don't interact with him in that way.

It was hard to see it before because it mimicked the sort of things I heard from parents growing up. I can see it now though.

Besides, it doesn't matter how he feels about me. It doesn't reflect how other people feel about me.

But thank you.

It may not work on you (although you're still there, aren't you? And you can argue that you were using him as much as he was you over lockdown, but it's not doing your self esteem any good is it? And tbh, I think someone with better boundaries would have dumped him despite things planned or convenience over Covid).

But anyway it's a successful enough technique for others.

@category12

It may not work on you (although you're still there, aren't you? And you can argue that you were using him as much as he was you over lockdown, but it's not doing your self esteem any good is it? And tbh, I think someone with better boundaries would have dumped him despite things planned or convenience over Covid).

But anyway it's a successful enough technique for others.

No, you're right. It's not doing it any good.

If Constellationstation is right thought it seems like a very counter productive way of doing things.

I'm ill at the moment so won't say or do anything until I'm feeling a bit better.

Maybe someone with better boundaries would have dumped already. I've considered it several times but just not done anything about it.

You stay with a guy you think is an idiot because you like his friends? Interesting.
I wouldn´t bother and eff numbers.

@category12

He's negging you.

Yup

@EndlessRose

But if you despise someone that much, why bother with the whole charade and not just dump them?

I think that's what I don't understand.

You don't understand because you are a reasonable person with functional aspirations for friendship & relationships.

Reasons, however, are for reasonable people.
Unreasonable (dysfunctional) people only understand power plays.
Google that phrase, alongside negging, as I'm sure you already are, plus 'dominance displays' ... & read this article, because despite not knowing about negging, your Shark Cage appears to be pretty solidly constructed -
www.oomm.live/the-shark-cage-metaphor-spotting-potential-abusers/

However - although you may not have done the reading up about this behaviour yet, you recognised it at gut level, & your response is faultless.
Congratulations on not getting sucked into a dynamic where you were constantly looking to understand & 'fix' a dysfunctional man.

Your laboratory experiment, conducted in rigorous clinical conditions while you suffered The Cold was awesome btw
I am impressed by your boundaries, common sense & intelligence. Your soon-to-be-ex has seriously shot himself in the foot, losing you!

btw ... this hobby friend ... is he single ..?

Two that stick out in my mind are as follows.

1) after I'd complimented him on his appearance before going out one day last summer, he told me that what I was wearing was unflattering.

Yup - classic negging.
Your role is breathless admiration of his manly self.
His role is to keep you in your place.

2) I've started doing a hobby with his best friend. His friend told me last week that he'd told my boyfriend that I was great company, good fun to hang out with, witty and he was a very lucky man. At the weekend, boyfriend implied that this friend had said a couple of 'careless' things about me. Nothing serious, just things that would undermine the friendship if true. Didn't mention the nice things he'd said but took a comment out of context to make me doubt his friend. The very nature of the conversation they had suggested to me that boyfriend had brought it up with the precise intention of doing exactly the same to his friend about me - to cast doubt on my intentions basically. It was my bf who suggested we did the hobby together.

Yeah, some negging going on - but more worryingly, this is also out & out gaslighting. Of both you & the hobby friend.
Also some potential Flying Monkey recruitment going on -
narcissistabusesupport.com/red-flags/use-flying-monkeys/

• so he can pit 2 people in his life against each other as he sees fit, in order to keep holding all the cards (remember - this is about POWER, not REASON).

I'm so, SO glad you are too smart for this man Rose.
He has all the hallmarks of a very nasty fucker indeed.

@EndlessRose

Instead he commented on what was on my TV in the picture, which was a music video of people dancing, i hadnt even noticed because i was so chuffed with myself at my paintwork... he replied 'What on earth are you watching'

Yes that's the sort of thing he'd say. Seeing someone else's experience of it is so much clearer. He felt hostile/resentful towards you because you'd achieved something. How bonkers is that?

It's occurred to me though that my tolerance for it is higher because my mum used to do it so it's what I grew up with and all I've known. Not that that means I think it's OK but it takes longer to realise its happening.

I think I've just spent so long listening to these slights and put downs and subtle assaults that it takes a while to see them properly.

Comments about other women being thinner, prettier, better than me? I grew up with them. It's normal. I've had to train myself to recognise it.

Tbh, I don't think the friend has any designs on me. I'm sure if I offered it to him on a plate he'd not turn it down. He's a man. But I don't think there is any intent on his part.

Aaaaaaand - here we have it. Some more homework for you, if you're interested Rose.

This, for understanding & expunging your mother's toxic early messaging -
www.amazon.co.uk/Woman-Your-Own-Right-Assertiveness/dp/0704334208?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

& this - a personal bible for many PP's btw - for understanding what makes 'Angry & Controlling Men' tick, & how to spot the next one at 1000 yards -
www.amazon.co.uk/Why-Does-He-That-Controlling/dp/0425191656?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

@category12

It may not work on you (although you're still there, aren't you? And you can argue that you were using him as much as he was you over lockdown, but it's not doing your self esteem any good is it? And tbh, I think someone with better boundaries would have dumped him despite things planned or convenience over Covid).

But anyway it's a successful enough technique for others.

This - but also, that this species of arsehole doesn't care if it works long term.

Obviously, he'd prefer it to, to avoid all the bother of recruiting & training the next victim, but when it eventually fails, he simply moves on to his next Narcissistic Supply woman.

He is never going to change, because these are the only tactics in his arsenal.
He dislikes women, & as he will never get beyond that baseline state, he is incapable of interacting with women in functional & reasonable ways. Dysfunction is the root of him - he cannot relate to women without his personal armoury of negging & related tactics.

Hope you're feeling better soon OP.

Then please throw this one away.

He’s controlling - my ex was exactly like this. It felt like he was punishing me somehow when I was poorly by not being kind to me, but I think it was just his abusive way of having a ‘dig’ at me. He’d neg me, didn’t like my (long) hair, my clothes etc. I spent 3 years trying to figure him out as he could be nice (or I wouldn’t have fallen for him), but in the end just came to the conclusion that he was just a nasty piece of work and he did actually become physically abusive. Some people are just nasty - there’s no point in trying to figure them out.
Best thing I did was leaving him. Grew my hair back, ditched the boring clothes he wanted me to wear and gradually my self esteem came back. These types of men are horrible & messed up. You’ll definitely find him in the pages of ‘why does he do that’.

Thanks for these replies. Made feel a lot better

I've just remembered something else.

A couple of months ago he was at mine and we were talking with my daughter. She is going through a bit of a phase of lacking self confidence. She's 15. It goes with the territory.

There are certain phrases She says and when I hear them, I know that I'm to give her specific reassurances. He doesn't know that.

Anyway, she said one of these things. I gave her my confidence boost spiel, she came and hugged me said, "Thanks, I love you mumsy" and went upstairs.

He and i went out later that evening and during the evening he said, "I've never really understood what is meant by mansplaining but today I learnt what it was." "Oh?" "Yes, I heard the perfect example of mumsplaining when you were talking to [daughter]" and then went on to critique what I'd said to her and told me what I should have said.

I was absolutely incensed.

But I remained really calm and replied along the lines of...

She's my daughter. I live with her 24/7 and during that time, whoever else is here, I continue to be her mum. Don't ever presume to know what she needs better than me. You parent your children your way and I'll parent mine in mine. It's not an audience participation activity.

Bit of a low blow because he doesn't have children. He'd have loved a family but oddly never had a successful enough relationship.

He's not commented negatively on my parenting since though.

I wish I'd had the confidence to dump him sooner 😕

I have a copy of Why Does He Do That? on my bookcase 🙈 I need to read it again.

Hobby friend is single and very different in many respects but I'm not going there!

He dislikes women, & as he will never get beyond that baseline state, he is incapable of interacting with women in functional & reasonable ways. Dysfunction is the root of him - he cannot relate to women without his personal armoury of negging & related tactics.

Sadly, this sounds very accurate.

Arrrrgggh he is the unwanted gift that keeps on giving!

He and i went out later that evening and during the evening he said, "I've never really understood what is meant by mansplaining but today I learnt what it was." "Oh?" "Yes, I heard the perfect example of mumsplaining when you were talking to [daughter]" and then went on to critique what I'd said to her and told me what I should have said.

"I never knew what mansplaining was", opined the mansplainer, while mansplaining motherhood to ... a mother.

Your response was brilliant Rose.
And you do have enough confidence. What you are gaining from this 'relationship' & posting here is experience.
You need both to effectively navigate a life free of cockwombles.

You’ve wasted far too much time of this bloke and are typing out paragraphs, analysing him, when really, he’s just bit of a thicko, and boring, don’t give it a second thought, just discard him.

And still making excuses not to dump him.

Good grief, but these men who feel they are bestowing an enormous favour on a woman by deciding to chat her up..... and by belittling the woman they ought to feel profoundly grateful to have in their lives. For how much longer eh? Don’t waste your loveliness on this one.

@category12

And still making excuses not to dump him.

Ah, come on now.

Only 3 posts upthread, OP says:
I wish I'd had the confidence to dump him sooner

She IS dumping him.
And has displayed remarkable resilience & ability to accommodate & respond to uncomfortable truths, in a thread spanning all of two & a half days.

Tbh, I think it's been apathy rather than lack of confidence that's stopped me.

@EndlessRose

Thanks for these replies. Made feel a lot better

I've just remembered something else.

A couple of months ago he was at mine and we were talking with my daughter. She is going through a bit of a phase of lacking self confidence. She's 15. It goes with the territory.

There are certain phrases She says and when I hear them, I know that I'm to give her specific reassurances. He doesn't know that.

Anyway, she said one of these things. I gave her my confidence boost spiel, she came and hugged me said, "Thanks, I love you mumsy" and went upstairs.

He and i went out later that evening and during the evening he said, "I've never really understood what is meant by mansplaining but today I learnt what it was." "Oh?" "Yes, I heard the perfect example of mumsplaining when you were talking to [daughter]" and then went on to critique what I'd said to her and told me what I should have said.

I was absolutely incensed.

But I remained really calm and replied along the lines of...

She's my daughter. I live with her 24/7 and during that time, whoever else is here, I continue to be her mum. Don't ever presume to know what she needs better than me. You parent your children your way and I'll parent mine in mine. It's not an audience participation activity.

Bit of a low blow because he doesn't have children. He'd have loved a family but oddly never had a successful enough relationship.

He's not commented negatively on my parenting since though.

I wish I'd had the confidence to dump him sooner 😕

How did you not dump him after this?! HOW? How have you still not dumped him? Yes, you’re poorly, but it really just takes a text. If you can write these posts relating the awful things he’s done, you can send him a message saying this is no longer working for you. You owe him nothing and it doesn’t have to be a drawn out or melodramatic parting. Just tell him you’re done - then be done.

@NowEvenBetter

You’ve wasted far too much time of this bloke and are typing out paragraphs, analysing him, when really, he’s just bit of a thicko, and boring, don’t give it a second thought, just discard him.

Amen to this.

I'm seeing him tomorrow. I'll do it then. I'm not doing it by text. I want to tell him why.

To what end? Are you hoping he’ll see the error of his ways and apologise? Or that he’ll provide some sort of explanation for his behaviour that will give you closure?

Based on your descriptions of this man’s characters, I’m afraid that neither of those things is likely to happen. But, best of luck with it. I hope you find the strength to follow through.

@EndlessRose

I'm seeing him tomorrow. I'll do it then. I'm not doing it by text. I want to tell him why.

Annnnd he'll reverse things on you and make out you are being really unfair. And that you are oversensitive/overreacting/crazy/always 'misunderstanding' him or similar.

'Yo lion! You are a lion! It's not OK. And you are chewing on my leg! Stop it!'. Point.less.

And a huge risk because they will often do all they can to rob you of any closure. Or sneak in an at the last second gut punch.

Good luck op. But don't say we didn't warn you.