When to have The Talk

[ToastOnCheese]

Hi,

I've been dating someone now for three months, it's all going brilliantly in my opinion. We have a lot of fun together.

We've both said we are open to seeing where things go, however we haven't discussed anything beyond that.

I have deleted the dating apps and I am not interested in dating or seeing anyone else, I dont know his opinion on this.

Is three months too early to ask this? Too late? If he was really interested would he have already asked me?

Thank you

I always think a dignified silence speaks a thousand words. By not messaging him, you're not giving him the satisfaction of chasing him, or showing that he's still in your head.

However, you might find it easier to move on if there's some closure as a couple of months or so is still a good chunk of time. Personally though, I wouldn't use the word "respectful".

If I was going to reply, I think I'd say something like "Your silence tells me everything I need to know. No need to contact me again, I think it's best we both move on elsewhere. All the best, Toast". Light yet firm, non-emotional, and not a woman to be pissed around is what I'd be aiming for.

I know texting wasn't ideal but you've handled it really well in confronting the issue. Maybe, in retrospect, texting was a good option as if you'd asked him this question in person, his response could have been excruciating, or you'd have been second-guessing yourself. At least this makes it clear that he's wasting your time. Sorry things turned out this way.

^Just to reiterate, my preference would still not to contact him. I wouldn't want him to know I'm thinking about him, bearing in mind the stony cold silence from his direction.

I deleted the app in front of him on our second date. Definitely not too soon. He was a keeper and I kept him. Nearly 2 years now. Just be honest and upfront, why would you want to be in a relationship where you can't be?

Excellent. I read 7 pages as 1 page and didn't RTFT. Apologies.

OP you seem to be flip flopping a bit now, and if you carry on this is going to lead you to make bad decisions.

In truth I think you've had doubts for a while about this relationship, from what you've written you've got a full diary, you say you have something to do every night... How would a relationship fit into that? Realistically? The phone business sounds very bizarre... What guy goes into dating, but doesn't bother to look at or charge his phone? In this day and age that's somewhat strange. It seems he's assumed things were casual and he'd see you when you'd planned. It's as if he'd set his stall out with his phone explanations so he didn't have to encounter surprise calls. You seemed to have left the exclusive chat a long time, he really had it all boxed off to be honest.

You keep saying you're not fussed, that you didn't want to be, or didn't feel ready to be his girlfriend, but then you're asking about not dating others... Being exclusive kind of means just that. You're not dating/sleeping/ contacting others. On the flip side of that you're saying hopefully you'll meet the right guy someday. Which is it? I think you need to set clearer boundaries for yourself.

It's not fair what he's done, and nobody deserves to be ghosted. But you've got to be far more positive in yourself. Don't settle for anything less than you deserve.

I don't think messaging him for closure is going to bring any closure, as you say you've deleted him, but then day you're off out with the girls and will enjoy yourself and forget him. In the next breath you're asking should you send one last message, and you're feeling angry. You're either moving on, or you're not. I personally think that phone is a burner phone he uses for dating, he's probably seeing others and with things as they were with you, he kind of had the option of seeing others on the nights he didn't see you. One night a week, or a weekend here and there gave him lots of chances. He obviously thought that suited you too.
If you were to speak to him again, it's likely he'd say just that. He was never asked to be exclusive to you, you in turn say you didn't want an exclusive relationship, but deep down you did. As much as you state otherwise. I think deep down you were trying to mask your insecurities, but went too far, and tried to present a more fun, carefree, living for the moment, and it's kind of back fired, as he's treated you as just that.

Delete his number, be good to yourself. Draw on the therapies you undertook, forget this guy.

I think OP can be forgiven for being hurt and pissed off, and experiencing the feelings of both wanting to move on then also feeling angry.

For what it’s worth, OP, I would message. I don’t understand this ‘maintain silence so that the man never has to justify his shitty behaviour’.

He’s behaved like a dick and if it makes you feel better to send him one more text telling him so then go for it. What harm is it going to do?

@Breakingmad

I think OP can be forgiven for being hurt and pissed off, and experiencing the feelings of both wanting to move on then also feeling angry.

For what it’s worth, OP, I would message. I don’t understand this ‘maintain silence so that the man never has to justify his shitty behaviour’.

He’s behaved like a dick and if it makes you feel better to send him one more text telling him so then go for it. What harm is it going to do?

And if he ignores that message too?

Please don't cave and text. Head held high with dignity.

Yeah, I know where other posters are coming from with their ‘leave it’ approach, and I see the value in that. But in my dating days I would always send a last text when ghosted - I didn’t feel like these men had the right to my silence and to get off Scott free. I’m sure the majority of them didn’t give a hoot about my last message - some replied, some didn’t - but it made me feel better to say what I had to say, and I don’t regret it.

Fuck it I’d send that reply. Change it slightly tho as it reads like the possibility of him dating others is not respectful when actually it’s the lack of reply that is the lack of respect.

For those who are saying don’t reply, I’d want to call him out on it, tell him his lack of response is totally discourteous and then block. You should make him feel uncomfortable a little

@ToastOnCheese Hey OP, I really feel for you. I know what it's like to you tell yourself you're not attached to the outcome and you just want to set boundaries/get closure/ hold him accountable etc then as time goes by and he doesn't respond that sinking feeling sets in. You sound lovely and you don't deserve to be treated this way. Please don't text him again. Best case scenario he gives you a lame excuse which won't make you feel better, worst case scenario he will ignore it, which will very possibly make you feel worse.

I know its horrible trust me, if you're anything like me you're probably very proactive in every other area of your life, so it feels disempowering not to take charge but honestly it isn't worth it. When a man wants you, he shows it. I totally understand why you felt the need to text him but if he were truly invested in you, he would have initiated it. Men don't like to run the risk that someone else might snap you up if they truly like you. I think you sensed this deep down & your anxiety made you text him. Forget this cockwomble & date men who make you feel secure, who appreciate everything you bring to the table & don't make you resort to chasing them. You will know them by their actions & by how little your spidey sense is tingling.

Keep your silence. What hes done is cowardly, sending a text telling him its disappointing may or may not illicit a reply but the reply won't be worth the text its written on, and no reply will be exactly what you have now. You sound great, but I would personally consider that any man who doesn't make it clear that he's only interested in you probably isn't right. In my experience, men want to make that crystal clear to a woman theyre with.

@FabricedeSauveterre

For those who are saying don’t reply, I’d want to call him out on it, tell him his lack of response is totally discourteous and then block. You should make him feel uncomfortable a little

Hes not gonna feel uncomfortable. He will either laugh or think 'she's crazy/can't read the room'.

Texting him and blocking - will not make OP feel any better.

I definitely wouldn't text. It will only make you feel worse.

If he was a decent person, he wouldn't have done this to you. A text is not going to make him feel ashamed of himself or realise that he needs to do better in future. All it will do is tell him that you really care, and let him know that if he wants to keep playing you, he'll be able to do that.

I get what everyone's saying about wanting the last word, wanting to shame him or show him how strong you are or whatever. But it's not worth it. If you did cave and text him last night, then I get it, and I hope that his response/non-response didn't hurt too much. But if you haven't done it, DON'T.

Thanks all. I didnt text in the end.

I think he probably would reply if I messaged, but as you've said, it wouldn't change anything or make anything feel better.

Having coffee and croissants at my friend's house now, feeling better than last night. I'm glad I didn't message!

I know im flip flopping between "I dont care" and "I'm gonna text him." I obviously care, I like him a lot, I had so much fun with him and I really saw it going somewhere. I still think all of that and also agree that I deserve better and I can do better etc. Its not one or the other. Its been a matter of days, im angry but also aware that I have no choice but to move on.

Its not just him... When something comes to an end in such an abrupt and rude manner it brings up all of the shit situations I've had with boys in the past few years. Each time I feel more ground down and miserable at the prospect of meeting someone new again and starting over.

@Notbornwithit

I’d never ask this. If he acts exclusive, is in regular contact, a date every weekend at the least had introduced you to his friends/ family you can take it as fine. If he isn’t doing those things I’d date others

Nope. You cannot do that these days. I thought the same about someone I was seeing and it turns out he was sleeping with other women. Sometimes the night before he met up with me. Sickening. Some men will take the absolute piss and blame it on modern dating culture. "Well you never said we were exclusive."

It’s such a cowardly thing to do especially after months together. That’s the true person he is though. It seems you’ve experienced this ghosting before and wonder if you’re missing any signs or it’s boundary related. Obviously these guys are awful but it’s also important to identify them quickly when dating and get rid.
I was probably overzealous in my boundaries! If he wasn’t making the right moves, keen to see me, talk about the future, become exclusive, introduce me to people after a few months etc I moved on. Those early days I was on alert for bad behaviours. It’s protecting yourself and ending up with a good person.
You sound lovely op but I feel you’re not on that alert mode or stating what you want early on. I actually think guys prefer assertiveness , it shows you value yourself. If they don’t like it then you get rid of a time waster more quickly. There are lots of time wasters and players out there unfortunately

@ToastOnCheese

I know im flip flopping between "I dont care" and "I'm gonna text him." I obviously care, I like him a lot, I had so much fun with him and I really saw it going somewhere. I still think all of that and also agree that I deserve better and I can do better etc. Its not one or the other. Its been a matter of days, im angry but also aware that I have no choice but to move on.

Its not just him... When something comes to an end in such an abrupt and rude manner it brings up all of the shit situations I've had with boys in the past few years. Each time I feel more ground down and miserable at the prospect of meeting someone new again and starting over.

You aren’t dating with intent though, and if you want to meet someone on OLD you need to- otherwise this is going to keep happening. ‘Take it slow’ attracts utter fuckboys and those words are music to their ears. Because usually ‘take it slow’ means dates and sex after date 2, but no commitment.

If you honestly think being ‘boyfriend/girlfriend’ is a big commitment and in any way different to ‘being exclusive, not shagging others’- you need to give your head a wobble. Being boyfriend/girlfriend is as serious as you want it to be, doesn’t mean you need to marry them next week. This attitude will have you in shit situationships where you will attract men who will rub their hands with glee that you will give them girlfriend benefits without a label or any solid commitment. Saying you ‘aren’t sleeping with others’ is just words. Men who like you and are serious about you will want to make you their girlfriend and pretty sharpish. Date with intent and seek out men who want to do this, rather than going in thinking ‘it’s such a huge commitment’. It’s absolutely not. Sometimes people break up and it doesn’t work out. When you say ‘we don’t have to be boyfriend/girlfriend’ men will hear low self esteem, doesn’t believe she is worth it.

If you treat dating casually, when you actually do want a connection, men will treat you casually.

So when you are ready. Date, vet, if anyone is anything less than gagging to see you again, block. If they aren’t having ‘the talk’ in 6 weeks- block. You don’t need to commit to a life with them, but these are less likely to waste your time and then you can decide. You have the power.

Its not just him... When something comes to an end in such an abrupt and rude manner it brings up all of the shit situations I've had with boys in the past few years. Each time I feel more ground down and miserable at the prospect of meeting someone new again and starting over.

It sounds like you've had more than one guy who's basically ditched you in a disrespectful way - ignored you or abandoned you somehow. Please don't take this as a criticism of you, because it's genuinely not meant that way, but I wonder if it's worth thinking about what has attracted you to these men? Is it playing out a situation from childhood maybe? As adults we sometimes subconsciously seek out partners with whom we can replay emotional dramas from childhood. All of this is to say, maybe there's a case here for seeking out completely different kinds of men than you've dated before? I tend to be very attracted to men who are absolute narcissistic bastards, to the point that I had to realise that if I felt a strong attraction to a man, it was highly likely that he was a narcissist. It was a sobering, but useful, realisation! (I call it Narcdar.)

Anyway, I'm not saying that's you at all, and maybe you've just been unlucky. There are definitely lots of different flavour bastards out there! Either way, it's natural for any kind of setback or rejection to make you feel a bit sad and knock your confidence a bit. But you're doing the right thing - surround yourself with friends who love you and talk you up, and do the things you enjoy that give you meaning. Try to think of this as a stepping stone to meeting someone lovely. You can't meet someone lovely if you're still with this guy, so losing him is making space for the lovely.

Thanks all.

I don't appreciate the "take it slow" comment means I am shagging them after date 2, that's not the case at all. In fact I've shagged him on two separate occasions and certainly not on date 2.

I potentially do attract the wrong type of person, im not really sure why. It's something I've explored with 2 separate therapists and neither of them could identify any reasons, we spoke about my childhood etc. Its also an area I work in, I have insight into this.

My ex was a twat and I could probably have forseen what he did, but i was young, he was my first proper relationship, we had a house together etc so I stayed. He disappeared one evening while I was in bed, never to be seen again (I posted about this at the time) The way he left me has understandably changed the way I view men and dating.

I dated a boy for a few months, my first sign of a red flag I left and never went back. That night he ended up on a bridge threatening to jump, I had to get the police involved etc. So a very stressful experience considering I knew him a matter of months and not my fault at all (despite him trying to blame me)

I dated someone over summer (I posted about him on here) who blocked me while I was outside his flat (we had planned to go out, he'd invited me) so again, that's another shite ending.

This most recent one was nothing like the others, my friends have said themselves they can't believe he's ghosted, he never gave them that impression at all etc. So it's not just me being dim. I've been wracking brains for any signs that he was going to disappear but I still haven't found any.

Is it really surprising I didn't want to rush into a relationship considering the last one I was in? If someone I've known 4 years can disappear into thin air, someone I've known 4 months can do the same. That's why I wanted to take it slowly and I think that's okay, it doesn't mean I don't know my worth and all that jazz.

Also, I dont feel I have boundary issues. I have a full life and I'm independent, a good, exciting job that I love, hobbies and interests, great friends, family I see often and do things with etc. I am busy doing my hobbies on most evenings and weekends and I never change that for anybody. I would never cancel something with my hobby/friends to meet the guy, nor would we plan anything last minute.

When I meet someone who is serious about me, obviously I will introduce him to those aspects of my life, but early on I like to keep things very separate. It's not a case of him saying "jump" and me saying "how high?" Quite often he'd suggest a day I couldn't do, so I'd always suggest an alternative date.

With my ex, i gave up my hobbies and interests and cancelled plans with others to meet him, I vowed to never, ever do that again! I still made time for him.

Oh sweetheart it isn’t you. Honestly. It’s just not. He’s a dick. And you just swerved a bullet. X x

You sound great, OP. More fool this silly man for treating you so badly. You seem like a gem and someone will be very lucky to have you!