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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Controlling Wife

106 replies

WorkingFromHomeDad · 09/10/2021 23:32

My wife is someone who always likes to be in charge. This has many benefits as she always knows what's going in with holiday arrangements, childcare arrangements, birthday presents, getting costumes for the children's special days at school etc. This I have to admit and I often let her do it and just offer help.

In my defence I do always get told off for something or other when I do get more involved.

I do take charge of many things though, for example the kids clubs is more something I manage and spend much more time taking the children to clubs and doing everything they need for clubs. Housework is split evenly as is cooking.

Both our children are quite needy though and this puts us under stress, they fight quite a bit when they're together and they can lack enthusiasm when they're apart. Increasingly though, the children both relish time apart from each other if they have our full attention for whatever they enjoy the most.

My issue is this though. My wife complains about literally everything that I ever plan and she complains about a lot of the parenting that I do.

With planning things, we have a calendar app for things that we plan and the rule is basically if either of us put something in the calendar for the benefit of the family or children then we comit to doing that thing. If either of us wants to say do our own sport or social activity then we ask first.

The problem is it only works 1 way. When my wife plans anything for herself or for the family or children, I am always happy with it. Everything I put in the calendar or plan at all gets criticised and will apparently be at the wrong time, wrong weather, wrong people or too much for the children to cope with in her view. If my wife has a weekend or a day away I'm genuinely fine with it a nice about it. If I want even 1 day to do something (I have less time doing my own interests than my wife has so I am not asking too often) then my wife huffs and puffs and sighs and complains about the things she had to do when I get back, brings it up weeks after because for whatever reason she thinks me having any time away is trickier than the times she has away.

We have lost many friends over the years because of my wife. If I arrange anything with friends she just complains to me about the arrangements or is in a huff with me when we meet those friends. She just gets on my case about everything I plan from a walk in the country to having friends over for dinner. When she has a few friends over I leave them to it or get them drinks or whatever. My wife has managed to lose me potential friends over the years by her being so grumpy it's just rude and my friends don't come back. She has also cost my children friends by contacting their parents and making endless points about the time, place or group that they meet. My children's friends are always nice, she's not worried about their safety, but is more trying to micro manage the group dynamic. It has got to the point where some of my children's (few) friends don't reply to them and the parents stop talking to us. I will be honest here, my wife has had a valid point at times but for example there will be a slightly moany child and my wife is trying to manage it so that child is not there when my children meet the rest of their friendship group. The parents obviously work this out and take offence so that the next thing that happens is our child or children are excluded (not the child or children who my wife was trying to exclude).

Again, for balance, I must say my wife has made friends and contributed to the friendship groups we do have. It is sad to simply ruin other friendships though and we don't have any close or regular friendships.

Other problems have been that my wife is a very very bad loser. I have always known this and she used to admit it freely before children. It is totally embarrassing now in front of the children though. If a game relies on luck she will complain through the entire game that she is unlucky. If the game relies on interaction like say cards where you pick up cards that people put down, she will say I'm going out of my way to ruin her game. There's always a reason and so she often makes our family time together miserable when it should he fun family game time. My children have grown up with this example and so now they are like her but not as bad. This ruins anything from a family game of crazy golf on holiday to having a kick about with a football or playing cards as a family. If my wife is there then as a rule there's a good chance that games will be horrible and moaning with her and children bickering and me being nice but having snide remarks aimed at me by my wife normally but also by the children who have learned this way of behaving

I feel sick that I have committed so much only to be treated like this but I could not walk out on my children.

Every time I challenge my wife about being a bad loser she admits it but says it's my fault because I don't make her feel loved.

When I point out that everything I plan from a holiday to arranging to meet friends for a walk is criticised she denies it and if I give examples she just has a list of reasons why I did make this that or the other planning mistake. She accuses me of not doing enough parenting (of children when they argue etc), not enough planning of days out or holidays and not taking part in fun activities but then she is on my case when I do those things. The children literally repeat her criticisms of me when I speak nicely to them and am offering my help and attention.

I have no real idea what to do now. How does this sound to an outsider?

OP posts:
Jaguarshoes · 11/10/2021 11:26

If she won’t agree to couples counselling then it seems there’s nothing you can do to improve the status quo. It seems your next option is to discuss the possibility of separation with her.

I grew up with two parents who had a terrible relationship, my mum was very cold and just like your wife could not take any criticism whatsoever. I only realised through therapy in my 40’s that she is a narcissist and it has had a lasting effect on me and how I function. I wish my dad would have had the courage to leave her but they are still together and I don’t think he is happy but he is now old and it’s far too late to rock the boat. Think about where you will be in ten years from now if you change nothing.

Anordinarymum · 11/10/2021 11:28

@Marmelace

Just knew it was going to be a long one before I clicked on it, OP should learn to jiggle things around a bit if they don't want to be spotted all the time. Grin
Oh please.. not another troll :(
theleafandnotthetree · 11/10/2021 11:30

This all sounds exhausting and horrible OP and very close to the dynamic of a couple I know who recently seperated. He pulled the plug, she thinks 'how very dare you' and sadly at least one of the four children has been turned against the father with the others also having to listen to a very one sided narrative from their mum who precisely because she is who she is, sees herself as the victim and as having played no role in the end of the marriage. What I am saying is that if you do seperate, the toxicity, controlling behaviours, narcissism etc will also be part of THAT journey and there may well be fallout with the children too. But if you have the courage to do it, at least you have the chance of a good and better life on the other side, your children too.

bettertimesarecomingnow · 11/10/2021 11:39

I think you need to leave or at the very least tell her that if the situation doesn't change, you will leave

bettertimesarecomingnow · 11/10/2021 11:41

I would never ever speak to my husband like that. Why would you? It's the person you love most in the world so I am always kind and courteous even if I think something he has done is wrong. I wouldn't bring it up, let alone have a go at him. I just fix it when he's not there!!
Relationships are supposed to enhance your life not make it worse. Does yours??

WorkingFromHomeDad · 11/10/2021 13:19

@bettertimesarecomingnow It doesn't enhance my life but the main thing I have really failed to get across here is that the children are stressful. I know children fight but my 2 can ruin an entire holiday by screaming at each other every day within 15 minutes of getting up. criticising literally each and every activity that we do.

this is not entirely our fault and is not my wife's fault as she is normally the one who can calm them down again.

Children have created this stress. The signs in my wife were there in the past but far smaller. I nearly left her over her demanding to do everything with me and then being like my shadow and criticising what I was doing when I hadn't really wanted her to follow me in every activity I did anyway. Those problems went away though, she gave me space and the time together was fun and loving again.

OP posts:
WorkingFromHomeDad · 11/10/2021 13:27

@bettertimesarecomingnow Thank you, that's good to know. I suppose there are only certain things you can fix in your husband's absence though. If you don't agree with say his parenting or his activity choices with children, you can't fix that. I suppose that's where it becomes more testing, it's down to whether you accept things (I am guessing you probably do) or whether you want to change things that your husband chooses (like my wife does).

OP posts:
WorkingFromHomeDad · 11/10/2021 13:31

@theleafandnotthetree Yes I am sure all divorce is horrendous. Some are far worse than others.

OP posts:
drpet49 · 11/10/2021 13:39

This isn’t any way to live OP. Take your kids away from this lunatic mother.

theleafandnotthetree · 11/10/2021 13:56

[quote WorkingFromHomeDad]@bettertimesarecomingnow It doesn't enhance my life but the main thing I have really failed to get across here is that the children are stressful. I know children fight but my 2 can ruin an entire holiday by screaming at each other every day within 15 minutes of getting up. criticising literally each and every activity that we do.

this is not entirely our fault and is not my wife's fault as she is normally the one who can calm them down again.

Children have created this stress. The signs in my wife were there in the past but far smaller. I nearly left her over her demanding to do everything with me and then being like my shadow and criticising what I was doing when I hadn't really wanted her to follow me in every activity I did anyway. Those problems went away though, she gave me space and the time together was fun and loving again.[/quote]
It jumps out at me that your children have learned their critical and negative communication lessons very well by observing their mother and indeed your failure to fully address these patterns. Having children is inherently somewhat stressful of course but your individual children are most definitely not to blame for the dynamic you find yourselves in. The fish rots from the head. Unless your wife changes hugely, I can't see how the person who seemed to be key to creating this negative atmosphere can be the person to deal with it, other than in very short-term bursts. She is fiefighting and maybe better than you in the immediate sense but simultaneously every day creating the kind of conditions in which fires are much more likely to break out.

Coronawireless · 11/10/2021 14:36

You work from home in your pyjamas and have put on weight. You gave your wife lingerie for her gift and you were hurt when she said she didn’t like it. You give the dcs more treats than she does…so she has to be the bad guy?
I’m not saying she’s not difficult but any marriage counsellor would tell you there’s no point in trying to change the other person. If you really want to stay married you have to be the one to look at how YOU can improve things. If you genuinely have done this and she’s still being contemptuous and dismissive of you then you have your answer

Coronawireless · 11/10/2021 14:51

I also can’t help wondering if you’re the sort of man who passive-aggressively sabotages every task so that you get your “space” and don’t have to do it any more? Or only do the fun stuff.
Your wife is controlling and contemptuous. You may be passive-aggressive and sloppy? And each of you winds the other up.

ElizaDarcysDeeds · 11/10/2021 15:01

You don't like her. You don't respect her. You think her parenting is bad. You tried to use a gift of lingerie to instigate a sexual side to the relationship. You think she is controlling. You think she is to blame for how your DCs speak to you. You think it is her fault if you fall out with couple friends. You think your DCs have created the stress and constantly fight and are negative.
You do not sound happy to be married or happy to be a parent.
If this thread is about you getting permission to leave, then consider the permission granted. You don't need to blame your wife and DCs. You can just leave.
If this thread is about trying to fix what is wrong then the first thing you need to do is go to counselling on your own. You're not a passive participant in your relationship or your family. You have a role to play, and you are playing a role, in this dysfunctional, negative, family dynamic.

WorkingFromHomeDad · 11/10/2021 18:41

@Coronawireless Only a small amount of weight and the lingerie I gave her was a few years ago. I only mentioned it to answer a has anything to improve. She is hurtful and doesn't reciprocate when I am polite or civil. In fact I am normally ignore, sighed or questioned in a passive aggressive tone. My wife does not treat anybody else that way.

I do pull my weight with parenting although as I explained earlier, I do less when she's there because she does criticise. This is a consequence I have explained and I think she even understands.

OP posts:
WorkingFromHomeDad · 11/10/2021 18:43

@ElizaDarcysDeeds For me it's about counselling, finding a way to improve and just hearing how it sounds to outsiders. I'm not planning to leave my wife and kids. I think I have missed the mark in some respects in my original statement if everyone thinks I should leave, it's not me pushing that idea although understand those who do think it's the way ahead.

OP posts:
bettertimesarecomingnow · 11/10/2021 18:54

Yes I get you about the activity choices or parenting - I'd maybe have a quiet word later if it was something major parenting wise. He's pretty chilled though so it isn't happened yet. He has a 16yo (my stepson) and he used to be a little harsh with him sometimes so I did mention that - not with criticism tho, with suggestions.

When it comes to activity tho I'm just damn grateful he's doing something with them. Even when it's my 9yo driving the tractor and dump truck 😆

I honestly can't get on board with wives who treat their husbands this way. We have a friend who screams and shouts at her husband and I just can't get my head around it. Would she do that at work?

One final thing - do you think you might all be happier if life was a little less structured? It sounds very formal and organised. And not much fun if I'm honest.

And your kids criticise everything you do, because they have learned it from their mum. They fight like cat and dog because they sense the tension and they think it's ok to speak like that to other people....sorry but that's just how it comes across.

Coronawireless · 11/10/2021 19:56

[quote WorkingFromHomeDad]@Coronawireless Only a small amount of weight and the lingerie I gave her was a few years ago. I only mentioned it to answer a has anything to improve. She is hurtful and doesn't reciprocate when I am polite or civil. In fact I am normally ignore, sighed or questioned in a passive aggressive tone. My wife does not treat anybody else that way.

I do pull my weight with parenting although as I explained earlier, I do less when she's there because she does criticise. This is a consequence I have explained and I think she even understands.[/quote]
I get it that you are walking on eggshells around her. Not a nice way to live. I didn’t mean that it was all your fault. Just that if you have tried to calmly explain how you feel about her communication style and she is not listening, you can’t force her to change, only yourself - if there are things you can reasonably change. Counselling might help with this. Some pps have suggested ways to minimise having to spend time with her. This will give you some happy times with the DC but at the end of the day you still have to come home. And it sounds as if the DC (fighting all the time) are picking up a lot on the atmosphere. Yet I understand why you don’t want to leave them. It’s a tough one. It doesn’t sound very happy as things are…

Lullaby88 · 11/10/2021 20:07

Can you stop blaming your wife for every little thing that has gone wrong between you both. U surely have a part to play.
I can get like this when my husband doesn't emotionally connect but we speak about it and he listens to me she is clearly struggling with some of your personality traits. But u both have to have an open and honest conversation away from the kids without shifting the blame on one another.

Lullaby88 · 11/10/2021 20:14

Also you should realise that Mumsnet will defo try to get you a divorce. Not many people on here will want u to patch things up. So be aware and careful of what advice u get on here! If u want it to work u can make some effort and try things before walking out if that's what u decide. I once posted on here about an argument I had with my husband and could not believe how many people told me to leave him par a few. And we actually patched things up and were fine and it's been 3 years later and another baby later too.

MushMonster · 11/10/2021 22:35

OP, I have not read the whole thread but glad to see you are getting some views and hopefully help.
I have read all your posts though.
It is very sad that you say if it was not for the children you would have left long ago. And that the children are a negative impact in your relationship due to the stress.
It is a very negative view.
Obviously, you are focusing on the negative and problematic points of your relationship at present because you two have some issues, but it is a dark place to be in. She will sense your feelings, as you are sensing hers.
I wonder if some of her over critic behaviour is a reflection of this, though it is also a part of her character by the looks of it.
It would be good for you two to focus on the positive parts of your relationship, to remember the things that brought you together.
You can have a date night at home when the children are sleep, once a week, if you cannot go out.
Counselling would be great. Shame she is not engaging.
Give it a good go to be positive, to remember those first days when you felt in love.
Be kind to each other. Call it a truce.
The children will learn from you both.
You could set the target of only saying positive things to each other for a whole month, and then recoup after that. See how it went?
So, if you organose a trip to the zoo, and she does not like that you set to be there by 11, she cannot say. She can only say positive things that crosses her mind. Like, I am so gratefull you made us our favourite sandwiches!
Same for you. You can try with the children if they are old enough.
Then sit after a time, and discuss how it went. Maybe she would learn to appreciate a day in harmony and peace, even when she prefered to have been there earlier.
I do not know, it may be silly and impossible.

aloris · 11/10/2021 23:45

It sounds like your wife has a very negative mood and views things in a negative light a lot of the time. What strikes me about what you have said so far is that the children argue with each other a lot, in ways that are not very healthy. Screaming matches etc. This is probably a sign that the children are stressed out but I think it's probably also that they don't know how to manage their emotions and their conflicts with each other. Even if you divorce your wife, the children's conflict resolution skills are going to be impacted by the cloud she creates by her negative reactions to other people. If she loses them friendships by attempting to micromanage their relationships with other children, then that will impact them even if you are divorced and living separately. So, for the children's sake, I think you need a new strategy for teaching them interpersonal skills.

Can you get therapy or counseling on your own? That might help you come up with ways to help them, whether by working on their behavior directly or changing your own behavior somehow to give them a different example.

JulesRimetStillGleaming · 12/10/2021 02:00

Could she be depressed?

Presumably she wasn't like this when you chose to marry her? It sounds like she's expressing her unhappiness by being endlessly critical. Either that's because she's feeling miserable and projecting that on you. Or your relationship isn't making her happy (or she perceives that the way she is feeling is your fault) so she's getting at you.

I think the only thing to do in this situation is to have an honest conversation about your relationship where you can both state how you feel. Don't buy 'sexy' underwear. If she's struggling to be emotionally connected right now, then trying to seduce her won't work.

Cameleongirl · 12/10/2021 03:08

I think I’d have to be blunt in this situation and tell her that I believe that people should be treated with respect. If she can’t stop criticizing and complaining about everything you do, you’re not prepared to stay in the relationship.

Sorry to be so blunt, but no one should be constantly criticized and spoken down to all the time. Now that my DD (16) is starting to have relationships ( nothing serious yet) we talk regularly about the importance of mutual respect and thoughtfulness in a healthy relationship. Either things change, or it’s not worth staying in the marriage.

SammyScrounge · 12/10/2021 03:28

She sounds s very overbearing woman and
quite insufferable. She also is undermining you with the children as they are repeating her criticisms of you.
Could you bear a 50/50 arrangement for contact with the children? She might fight
against that because she would lose total control of the family which seems to me to be the cause of her behaviour.

GingerScallop · 12/10/2021 04:46

I know someone like this. Very nice good at planning and unlike your wife, not openly critical of husband. But has to plan, leas. "do" everything. If anyone chooses a place to go to, 99% of the time she will suggest another place. a very nice place but it means no one else ever really gets to lead on planning activities. Hee husband has more or less given up (it seems to me) on suggesting places and activities.
Since your wife won't go to counseling perhaps individual counseling for you will help sort out what's going on in a safer more professional environment?
You may also want 5suggest taking the kids out a day for her to have a rest? That gives you alone, uncriticised time with them
I sympathize with you buying lingerie. It's what popular culture has taught men to do for women. am a woman and have learnt from Mumsnet that this is the worst you can do.
oh I do sympathize with the wear and read children bring to relationships. But so does everyday grind. Try and look the gaps of the exhaustion and you will also see the joy they bring. The arguing thing, it's most kids especially preteen and teen years. Try not to stop every argument. It's probably good practice for standing up to the world. Walk away sometimes. Refuse engage them.
Same with doing activities. Am not from the UK and sometimes find the way parents seems to want kids to join them in activities, do things together with kids exhausting and stifling (for the kids). But then am from a culture where children are like free range chickens. You open the door, let them out and they get on with their day. So give them some leeway and let them opt out of some activities sometimes