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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Controlling Wife

106 replies

WorkingFromHomeDad · 09/10/2021 23:32

My wife is someone who always likes to be in charge. This has many benefits as she always knows what's going in with holiday arrangements, childcare arrangements, birthday presents, getting costumes for the children's special days at school etc. This I have to admit and I often let her do it and just offer help.

In my defence I do always get told off for something or other when I do get more involved.

I do take charge of many things though, for example the kids clubs is more something I manage and spend much more time taking the children to clubs and doing everything they need for clubs. Housework is split evenly as is cooking.

Both our children are quite needy though and this puts us under stress, they fight quite a bit when they're together and they can lack enthusiasm when they're apart. Increasingly though, the children both relish time apart from each other if they have our full attention for whatever they enjoy the most.

My issue is this though. My wife complains about literally everything that I ever plan and she complains about a lot of the parenting that I do.

With planning things, we have a calendar app for things that we plan and the rule is basically if either of us put something in the calendar for the benefit of the family or children then we comit to doing that thing. If either of us wants to say do our own sport or social activity then we ask first.

The problem is it only works 1 way. When my wife plans anything for herself or for the family or children, I am always happy with it. Everything I put in the calendar or plan at all gets criticised and will apparently be at the wrong time, wrong weather, wrong people or too much for the children to cope with in her view. If my wife has a weekend or a day away I'm genuinely fine with it a nice about it. If I want even 1 day to do something (I have less time doing my own interests than my wife has so I am not asking too often) then my wife huffs and puffs and sighs and complains about the things she had to do when I get back, brings it up weeks after because for whatever reason she thinks me having any time away is trickier than the times she has away.

We have lost many friends over the years because of my wife. If I arrange anything with friends she just complains to me about the arrangements or is in a huff with me when we meet those friends. She just gets on my case about everything I plan from a walk in the country to having friends over for dinner. When she has a few friends over I leave them to it or get them drinks or whatever. My wife has managed to lose me potential friends over the years by her being so grumpy it's just rude and my friends don't come back. She has also cost my children friends by contacting their parents and making endless points about the time, place or group that they meet. My children's friends are always nice, she's not worried about their safety, but is more trying to micro manage the group dynamic. It has got to the point where some of my children's (few) friends don't reply to them and the parents stop talking to us. I will be honest here, my wife has had a valid point at times but for example there will be a slightly moany child and my wife is trying to manage it so that child is not there when my children meet the rest of their friendship group. The parents obviously work this out and take offence so that the next thing that happens is our child or children are excluded (not the child or children who my wife was trying to exclude).

Again, for balance, I must say my wife has made friends and contributed to the friendship groups we do have. It is sad to simply ruin other friendships though and we don't have any close or regular friendships.

Other problems have been that my wife is a very very bad loser. I have always known this and she used to admit it freely before children. It is totally embarrassing now in front of the children though. If a game relies on luck she will complain through the entire game that she is unlucky. If the game relies on interaction like say cards where you pick up cards that people put down, she will say I'm going out of my way to ruin her game. There's always a reason and so she often makes our family time together miserable when it should he fun family game time. My children have grown up with this example and so now they are like her but not as bad. This ruins anything from a family game of crazy golf on holiday to having a kick about with a football or playing cards as a family. If my wife is there then as a rule there's a good chance that games will be horrible and moaning with her and children bickering and me being nice but having snide remarks aimed at me by my wife normally but also by the children who have learned this way of behaving

I feel sick that I have committed so much only to be treated like this but I could not walk out on my children.

Every time I challenge my wife about being a bad loser she admits it but says it's my fault because I don't make her feel loved.

When I point out that everything I plan from a holiday to arranging to meet friends for a walk is criticised she denies it and if I give examples she just has a list of reasons why I did make this that or the other planning mistake. She accuses me of not doing enough parenting (of children when they argue etc), not enough planning of days out or holidays and not taking part in fun activities but then she is on my case when I do those things. The children literally repeat her criticisms of me when I speak nicely to them and am offering my help and attention.

I have no real idea what to do now. How does this sound to an outsider?

OP posts:
LunaAndHerMoonDragons · 10/10/2021 11:02

It sounds like this has been going on a long time, getting gradually worse. What do you want now, do you want to try to fix things or are you done and want to leaves? If you still want to try and fix things, not that you can without both of you working at it, then obvious next step would be marriage counseling. You don't need to try again, if this relationship is over for you it's ok to separate.

Not in defense of your wife, by the way you've written it sounds like you mean lingerie by 'romantic' clothes? Stbxh did a similar thing, ignored all our issues and thought sex toys and lingerie would help. All that did was make me feel worthless, that was the only thing he was interested in working on. For some people lingerie in the middle of a struggling relationship is the opposite of romantic. If you decide that you want to have one last try and your wife agrees to trying again, to go to counseling, it might help to consider that you both could have very different views of what is romantic.

litterbird · 10/10/2021 11:11

Sorry OP it sounds like your wife has just lost interest in you and the marriage. Buying lingerie when you are in a bit of a dry patch actually does the opposite. Getting time away without children, without the stress, without the constant organising plus counselling is the only way I can see your way out of this. If not, this situation will not recover but get worse and worse until she decides enough is enough and she asks you to move out permanently. Always remember that many relationships have a sell by date. Very few "live happily ever after". Its ok to throw the towel in if you need to. To cut free and build a happier life is much better than sinking in a pit of misery staying for the kids.

WorkingFromHomeDad · 10/10/2021 11:31

A few questions about romantic clothes, yes I mean lingerie. My wife used to like that sort of thing but yes I am able to understand if she doesn't anymore. My thread wasn't about intimacy as I think that can come later after other problems are behind us.

OP posts:
tarasmalatarocks · 10/10/2021 11:37

Does you wife work OP?? - I know someone like this and started treating her family like a project management job because she stopped work after having a very senior role before— it’s as if ‘running the family’ became the job and kept her mind occupied. I also find somexwomen go like this when they like having ‘a family’ ie kids but in all fairness aren’t really that into their husband/partner anymore. I think you should separate to be honest— she is unkind and unfair— you do far far more than my H ever did/does.

ILoveJamaica · 10/10/2021 11:50

Your wife sounds just like my sister. It's absolutely horrible. They have lost lots of friends, and I went NC in January, after decades of abuse. I have no idea how her husband tolerates it, but I do see him as her enabler. Honestly? I would separate. This is in no way normal, and you only get one life. Wouldn't you want to spend your life with someone who didn't bring this drama to the table? A nice, calm, loving wife, with no bickering. Try to imagine it.

ImustLearn2Cook · 10/10/2021 11:52

We disagree on parenting because I would simply have a forfeit for bad behaviour but my wife always nacks down on forfeits for the children and lets them earn their lost privalage back again somehow. That's bad parenting in my view

Maybe instead of viewing your wife as exercising ‘bad parenting’ you could consider this excerpt from:

centerforparentingeducation.org/library-of-articles/discipline-topics/consequences-made-easy/

While parents have the power to suspend the privileges, children have the power to earn back privileges; it is not merely a matter of the privileges being suspended for a pre-determined amount of time.

When a consequence is lifted according to certain time limitation set by parents, there is less learning and children have less power. When children have to do certain things to have the consequence met or lifted, more learning occurs and children have more power.

Getting Back Privileges

To have privileges re-instated children need to address:

Facts: The details of the situation – the who, what, where, when?

Opinions: What were they thinking or feeling? Why did it get them in trouble?

Action Plans: This includes several pieces:

To whom do they need to apologize/make amends?
What else needs to happen to correct the situation?
What specific actions can they take to prevent it from happening again?

ImustLearn2Cook · 10/10/2021 11:59

It would take a lot more then a differing parenting style for me to view someone as being a bad parent or exercising bad parenting.

I personally think that you regarding your wife’s parenting strategies as bad parenting is probably contributing to your relationship problems. It is an awful thing to do to your partner and your children’s other parent.

It’s an awful thing to do to any parent actually.

the80sweregreat · 10/10/2021 12:08

My sil is like this too.
How my brother put up with her all these years I've no idea.
You deserve some happiness op. If this was a woman talking about her husband you would be advised to leave I'm sure.
Some people are just nasty and cruel.

ThanksIGotItInMorrisons · 10/10/2021 12:25

I’m sorry. This sounds exhausting and very unhappy for all of you. I agree happy children is important. Are you IN love with your wife? Do you think time alone with the kids brings them happiness without boundaries? Do you feel happier better and more relaxed with children when wife not around? Sounds like she is a martyr. You cannot and will not make a martyr happy by removing any of their responsibilities. There will always be something wrong with it, some reason you are making their life more difficult. I agree that should you decide to split, and spend your own time with the kids alone and have fun and happiness, it sounds way better than it does now. She cannot change as you have repeatedly addressed this and it makes no difference. You and the kids are losing friends because of her. I think you know the answer. I think you are loooking for validation. I hope you have found it.

twoandeights · 10/10/2021 12:33

This sounds utterly miserable. I think you’d be much happier living on your own and living your own life

StoneColdBitch · 10/10/2021 13:00

My husband's first wife was reportedly very like this - very controlling when it came to the children (in fairness she hadn't been like that pre-DC). When my husband first told me I rolled my eyes and took it with a pinch of salt, but I witnessed her controlling behaviour repeatedly in the early years of our relationship when we had contact with her about stepchildren.

Honestly, just leave. Your wife sounds borderline abusive. My only worry would be that your wife may limit/control your time with your children post-split - have a low threshold for going to court if so!

HereticFanjo · 10/10/2021 13:04

It sounds like you will all be happier apart tbh.

Anordinarymum · 10/10/2021 13:05

@WorkingFromHomeDad

My wife is someone who always likes to be in charge. This has many benefits as she always knows what's going in with holiday arrangements, childcare arrangements, birthday presents, getting costumes for the children's special days at school etc. This I have to admit and I often let her do it and just offer help.

In my defence I do always get told off for something or other when I do get more involved.

I do take charge of many things though, for example the kids clubs is more something I manage and spend much more time taking the children to clubs and doing everything they need for clubs. Housework is split evenly as is cooking.

Both our children are quite needy though and this puts us under stress, they fight quite a bit when they're together and they can lack enthusiasm when they're apart. Increasingly though, the children both relish time apart from each other if they have our full attention for whatever they enjoy the most.

My issue is this though. My wife complains about literally everything that I ever plan and she complains about a lot of the parenting that I do.

With planning things, we have a calendar app for things that we plan and the rule is basically if either of us put something in the calendar for the benefit of the family or children then we comit to doing that thing. If either of us wants to say do our own sport or social activity then we ask first.

The problem is it only works 1 way. When my wife plans anything for herself or for the family or children, I am always happy with it. Everything I put in the calendar or plan at all gets criticised and will apparently be at the wrong time, wrong weather, wrong people or too much for the children to cope with in her view. If my wife has a weekend or a day away I'm genuinely fine with it a nice about it. If I want even 1 day to do something (I have less time doing my own interests than my wife has so I am not asking too often) then my wife huffs and puffs and sighs and complains about the things she had to do when I get back, brings it up weeks after because for whatever reason she thinks me having any time away is trickier than the times she has away.

We have lost many friends over the years because of my wife. If I arrange anything with friends she just complains to me about the arrangements or is in a huff with me when we meet those friends. She just gets on my case about everything I plan from a walk in the country to having friends over for dinner. When she has a few friends over I leave them to it or get them drinks or whatever. My wife has managed to lose me potential friends over the years by her being so grumpy it's just rude and my friends don't come back. She has also cost my children friends by contacting their parents and making endless points about the time, place or group that they meet. My children's friends are always nice, she's not worried about their safety, but is more trying to micro manage the group dynamic. It has got to the point where some of my children's (few) friends don't reply to them and the parents stop talking to us. I will be honest here, my wife has had a valid point at times but for example there will be a slightly moany child and my wife is trying to manage it so that child is not there when my children meet the rest of their friendship group. The parents obviously work this out and take offence so that the next thing that happens is our child or children are excluded (not the child or children who my wife was trying to exclude).

Again, for balance, I must say my wife has made friends and contributed to the friendship groups we do have. It is sad to simply ruin other friendships though and we don't have any close or regular friendships.

Other problems have been that my wife is a very very bad loser. I have always known this and she used to admit it freely before children. It is totally embarrassing now in front of the children though. If a game relies on luck she will complain through the entire game that she is unlucky. If the game relies on interaction like say cards where you pick up cards that people put down, she will say I'm going out of my way to ruin her game. There's always a reason and so she often makes our family time together miserable when it should he fun family game time. My children have grown up with this example and so now they are like her but not as bad. This ruins anything from a family game of crazy golf on holiday to having a kick about with a football or playing cards as a family. If my wife is there then as a rule there's a good chance that games will be horrible and moaning with her and children bickering and me being nice but having snide remarks aimed at me by my wife normally but also by the children who have learned this way of behaving

I feel sick that I have committed so much only to be treated like this but I could not walk out on my children.

Every time I challenge my wife about being a bad loser she admits it but says it's my fault because I don't make her feel loved.

When I point out that everything I plan from a holiday to arranging to meet friends for a walk is criticised she denies it and if I give examples she just has a list of reasons why I did make this that or the other planning mistake. She accuses me of not doing enough parenting (of children when they argue etc), not enough planning of days out or holidays and not taking part in fun activities but then she is on my case when I do those things. The children literally repeat her criticisms of me when I speak nicely to them and am offering my help and attention.

I have no real idea what to do now. How does this sound to an outsider?

It sounds like fucking hard work
Sugarntailsnluvlyspicysnails · 10/10/2021 13:14

We have friends in a relationship like this. It's draining to be around, how they/you can live like it I have no idea. As with your wife, the husband was picked at in front of us. It never seemed to matter who or how many were there as she absolutely believed she had the right to criticise him, regardless of how uncomfortable it made anyone or how ott she was being. Once she was trying to goad him into being jealous that she was going out, but he just said he was happy for her to have a nice time. She just kept on going on though despite the rest of us trying to merge into the walls of the very small room we were in at the time. She also tried to reinvent that scenario and what she said when talking about it with a few of us later. We were there too, we all knew what happened, although it helped that we all were as she would have probably had me thinking I'd gotten it wrong if I didn't have other's accounts to back mine up!

Martyrdom, as was mentioned above, possibly. Never being able to do right. Our group of friends are always a little hesitant to offer help nowadays as we quite often only make things worse too. Also to offer advice or input (when asked!) as that also receives snappy comments or wallace-and-gromit-worthy eye rolls and grimaces. That woman should never take up poker!

As for what you should do, leave? If she won't engage in counselling or admit any part whatsoever that she plays in this dynamic. Carve a relationship out with your children that is separate from her constant derision. If that's possible. What do you want to do?

Also, sexy undies... just no. Not unless you're on a good place already.

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 10/10/2021 13:15

She sounds incredibly hard work. I would find her behaviour very unappealing to be around.

And it's clearly influencing the children's attitudes

Start booking some days out just you and the kids. Ring a friend and suggest they bring their kids along. Tell her she is welcome to a day by herself, as the alternative is she spoils the day out.

If we swapped the sexes in your opening post, you would be advised the same.

Wrt to the underwear, I hate being bought it. And dh and I have a healthy happy marriage and sex life. Some posters on here may see that, and it alone will detract from any empathy on your other (much bigger) issues

chilliplant634 · 10/10/2021 13:41

She is controlling and abusive. Look at the pattern of dysfunctional relationships. Is she close with her family? I wonder if she gaslights you too. Was she always like this?

It doesn't look like she will ever admit fault or want to change. It's up to you whether you just want to set down boundaries and continue for the time being until kids are older (with her acting increasingly Batshit in order to assert control again, or she might just well instigate separation herself in response) but you need a really thick skin for this and would have to accept difficulty and unhappiness in the short term.

Or you go separate ways now?

Lullaby88 · 10/10/2021 23:19

@WorkingFromHomeDad
Ul see loads of people telling you to leave this marriage and maybe it might be the best thing at the end but you should try atleast.
I think ur wife is resenting you if I'm being honest, is there anything uv done in the past that hurt her badly?or something u never quite resolved? Have u even tried sitting down and talking to her about all of this? Do u still love her ?

IdblowJonSnow · 10/10/2021 23:34

If she won't try counselling she's not leaving you with many options here is she OP.

If she won't or can't change you'd be better off splitting and offering the kids a happy home some of the time. Flowers

WorkingFromHomeDad · 11/10/2021 07:25

@chilliplant634 Yes, she has always been like this to an extent. An earlier poster who had experienced bad losers suggested not playing games and that is what I eventually did. I love many board games so I play online instead.

My children love board games though and their understanding of probabilities and what to remember as the game is played is way beyond their years so it is sad to abstain but I'm not being abused verbally throughout half of the games we play for my wife. It's not a way to act.

Yes I do need a thick skin and a lot of the time I have that but I wonder of it encourages her to continue. I reckon some days over 50% of what she says to me in a criticism, she huffs and sighs when I suggest things or answer questions and when I very rarely point it out, she says she is only breathing.

Yes it is gaslighting.

I have however focussed on the negative things, the reasons for my post, but there are many positives as well. She is good with the children 90% of the time and is better than most mothers I see.

Very very rarely in the past she has admitted to these faults. She has refused counselling a few times in the past.

OP posts:
Dontforgetyourbrolly · 11/10/2021 07:29

Sounds exhausting and miserable

Glencoeglenda · 11/10/2021 07:42

Do you challenge her?

Its ok to do this, even in front of the children. If someone spoke to me the way you describe so often, I would ask them not to be so rude / unkind and not to speak to me like that.

WorkingFromHomeDad · 11/10/2021 07:43

@Lullaby88 What have I done wrong? That's a great question. Nothing!

No, I'm only joking, I have many faults but sticking to the ones my wife has mentioned...

  1. I get up at varying times. I don't mean I get up at midday like a slob, I mean I might get up anywhere from 6:30-7:30 on a weekday and maybe an hour later at the weekend. She gets up before me 90% of the time. We have discussed this and the jobs she has to do before I get up and one solution was for me to empty the dishwasher before bed instead of her doing it in the morning in order to have breakfast. I do that now.

  2. I work in pyjamas or my running kit a lot of the time. She finds this annoying.

  3. I pretty much don't intervene in children's bickering. This is a result of my wife criticising me almost every time I do. I only deal with it when she's not there now.

  4. I have put on weight over lockdown, mostly due to an injury but partly due to not walking to work as I used to. And before anyone mentions, no this is not her being nasty she knows my goal is to be lean and that I am not offended by that observation, I am genuinely just not offended because it's a fact. I am a sporty person and I really don't eat much bad food but at my age, I have not kept up enough daily exercise.

  5. I honestly think that my sort of easy going approach with friends annoys her. I might invite friends over or have friends who can meet my other friends and she hates this. To her, friends must be kept separate in case they don't get on. I honestly don't know where this ever came from, it is the opposite from the way I was brought up whereby everyone was in every else's house all the time.

  6. I wonder if deep down she resents my family as they all get on. My wife's family has a fair few very stilted relationships. All nice people but some of them make it hard to ever meet up and some hold grudges and can never meet some of the others under any circumstances etc.

  7. I am probably insensitive to many things she picks up on. I might for example say something to a friend ad she will tell me later it was insensitive, I honestly don't think people are offended by things I say, it's a difference of opinion.

OP posts:
WorkingFromHomeDad · 11/10/2021 07:46

@BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz Thanks, yes I do take the children out with just my friends sometimes. I will burn the underwear. Enough people have told me this now.

OP posts:
Marmelace · 11/10/2021 07:46

Just knew it was going to be a long one before I clicked on it, OP should learn to jiggle things around a bit if they don't want to be spotted all the time.
Grin

WorkingFromHomeDad · 11/10/2021 07:52

@ThanksIGotItInMorrisons Am I happier with the children when she is not around? Yes I do. The order of events becomes flexible and relaxed, the types of things we can do gets more interesting. the children can choose what to do a lot more.

On the negative side, I will be strict with them and this sometimes can go too far. I am very relieved when she gets back though so it's not all 1 way. There are also things we do like homework or family sporty time that children sometimes resist and she is better at overcoming this resistance than I am.

It is perhaps a little bit of Daddy Daycare when she is away. I'm not saying we eat pizza and watch the Simpson's all day but there are treats.

OP posts: