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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Controlling Wife

106 replies

WorkingFromHomeDad · 09/10/2021 23:32

My wife is someone who always likes to be in charge. This has many benefits as she always knows what's going in with holiday arrangements, childcare arrangements, birthday presents, getting costumes for the children's special days at school etc. This I have to admit and I often let her do it and just offer help.

In my defence I do always get told off for something or other when I do get more involved.

I do take charge of many things though, for example the kids clubs is more something I manage and spend much more time taking the children to clubs and doing everything they need for clubs. Housework is split evenly as is cooking.

Both our children are quite needy though and this puts us under stress, they fight quite a bit when they're together and they can lack enthusiasm when they're apart. Increasingly though, the children both relish time apart from each other if they have our full attention for whatever they enjoy the most.

My issue is this though. My wife complains about literally everything that I ever plan and she complains about a lot of the parenting that I do.

With planning things, we have a calendar app for things that we plan and the rule is basically if either of us put something in the calendar for the benefit of the family or children then we comit to doing that thing. If either of us wants to say do our own sport or social activity then we ask first.

The problem is it only works 1 way. When my wife plans anything for herself or for the family or children, I am always happy with it. Everything I put in the calendar or plan at all gets criticised and will apparently be at the wrong time, wrong weather, wrong people or too much for the children to cope with in her view. If my wife has a weekend or a day away I'm genuinely fine with it a nice about it. If I want even 1 day to do something (I have less time doing my own interests than my wife has so I am not asking too often) then my wife huffs and puffs and sighs and complains about the things she had to do when I get back, brings it up weeks after because for whatever reason she thinks me having any time away is trickier than the times she has away.

We have lost many friends over the years because of my wife. If I arrange anything with friends she just complains to me about the arrangements or is in a huff with me when we meet those friends. She just gets on my case about everything I plan from a walk in the country to having friends over for dinner. When she has a few friends over I leave them to it or get them drinks or whatever. My wife has managed to lose me potential friends over the years by her being so grumpy it's just rude and my friends don't come back. She has also cost my children friends by contacting their parents and making endless points about the time, place or group that they meet. My children's friends are always nice, she's not worried about their safety, but is more trying to micro manage the group dynamic. It has got to the point where some of my children's (few) friends don't reply to them and the parents stop talking to us. I will be honest here, my wife has had a valid point at times but for example there will be a slightly moany child and my wife is trying to manage it so that child is not there when my children meet the rest of their friendship group. The parents obviously work this out and take offence so that the next thing that happens is our child or children are excluded (not the child or children who my wife was trying to exclude).

Again, for balance, I must say my wife has made friends and contributed to the friendship groups we do have. It is sad to simply ruin other friendships though and we don't have any close or regular friendships.

Other problems have been that my wife is a very very bad loser. I have always known this and she used to admit it freely before children. It is totally embarrassing now in front of the children though. If a game relies on luck she will complain through the entire game that she is unlucky. If the game relies on interaction like say cards where you pick up cards that people put down, she will say I'm going out of my way to ruin her game. There's always a reason and so she often makes our family time together miserable when it should he fun family game time. My children have grown up with this example and so now they are like her but not as bad. This ruins anything from a family game of crazy golf on holiday to having a kick about with a football or playing cards as a family. If my wife is there then as a rule there's a good chance that games will be horrible and moaning with her and children bickering and me being nice but having snide remarks aimed at me by my wife normally but also by the children who have learned this way of behaving

I feel sick that I have committed so much only to be treated like this but I could not walk out on my children.

Every time I challenge my wife about being a bad loser she admits it but says it's my fault because I don't make her feel loved.

When I point out that everything I plan from a holiday to arranging to meet friends for a walk is criticised she denies it and if I give examples she just has a list of reasons why I did make this that or the other planning mistake. She accuses me of not doing enough parenting (of children when they argue etc), not enough planning of days out or holidays and not taking part in fun activities but then she is on my case when I do those things. The children literally repeat her criticisms of me when I speak nicely to them and am offering my help and attention.

I have no real idea what to do now. How does this sound to an outsider?

OP posts:
gamerchick · 11/10/2021 07:55

@WorkingFromHomeDad

A few questions about romantic clothes, yes I mean lingerie. My wife used to like that sort of thing but yes I am able to understand if she doesn't anymore. My thread wasn't about intimacy as I think that can come later after other problems are behind us.
It's not going to happen dude. She's checked out and probably wishes you would leave.

Why you would want to stay and be treated like that is beyond me and what are your kids learning about relationships?

Followtheyellowsicktoad · 11/10/2021 08:02

I’m sorry you’re experiencing this, it isn’t nice. My DP has an ex like this. They’ve long separated but I can still see the hangovers in his behaviour.

I don’t know the answer to your problems. But I suggest that you pull your children up when they get critical of you. If out with other parent friends mention your concern and ask them to pick up on it too. The DC are being set a bad behaviour example by your DW, try to make sure they are shown healthy examples too.

DoormatBob · 11/10/2021 08:03

My DW isn't quite like this but does have a bit of martyrdom and competitive tiredness. The hardest job in the world is the one she is doing that day.

Can you take the kids out on your own without telling her your plans? I do this with DD if I don't want an opinion. Just be vague then have a great idea after you have set off!

DoormatBob · 11/10/2021 08:03

My DW isn't quite like this but does have a bit of martyrdom and competitive tiredness. The hardest job in the world is the one she is doing that day.

Can you take the kids out on your own without telling her your plans? I do this with DD if I don't want an opinion. Just be vague then have a great idea after you have set off!

WorkingFromHomeDad · 11/10/2021 08:07

@Glencoeglenda Do I challenge her? I think it is right to discuss things later. I I challenger her in front of children it will end with her going ape, the children get involved and no matter whose side they take she will take offence and have a go at them verbally often until one is in tears.

I challenge her about 5% as often as she challenges me. Every time it leads to a breakdown like the current one that has led to me raising this here.

I discuss things privately with her more often but to her that is an opportunity to tell me what I've done wrong. She has some valid points, but she just won't listen to anything I ask her to do.

OP posts:
WorkingFromHomeDad · 11/10/2021 08:08

@tarasmalatarocks Yes she works 30 hours a week so she has a couple of hours more with the children each day than I do.

OP posts:
GoodnightGrandma · 11/10/2021 08:14

Really, you need to leave for your sanity.
Have you had any discussion about splitting up ?

WorkingFromHomeDad · 11/10/2021 08:15

@ImustLearn2Cook @litterbird you asked about parenting. yes I agree there are many theories and nobody is bad. Another poster said I was mean to criticise parenting. She criticises my parenting a lot more than I question hers. Rewards work for 1 child but not the other. That child is much less rule based and much more of a full cup / empty cup child so you have to fill the emotional cup with good fun and bonding before you ask the child to do things. It can be draining as the judge of how full the cup is is the child, not you so as a parent I might think I've filled the fun cup up with fun times but the child doesn't always think so and won't be helpful.

I suppose my only real criticism of her parenting is that the children argue and they use all of the phrases my wife uses to argue with me. My wife has caused this in my view, maybe she has not caused each of their arguments but she has shown them that she argues with me so why can't they argue too?

OP posts:
GoodnightGrandma · 11/10/2021 08:18

I agree with pp that I have become like this with my DH, but it’s because I want to separate. Things he has done over the years have caused resentment, and I don’t want to live with the man he has become anymore. He has also said a pretty upsetting thing about me, I asked him why he’s still with me then, and he had no answer. Just sat there.
You need to do something or this will be your life, and that will be your fault.

RantyAunty · 11/10/2021 08:21

If she is also working 30 hours a week, why aren't you up when she is, getting the kids ready?

Are you doing the school runs?

Is she aware in advance when you invite your friends over and are you doing the cooking, serving drinks, cleaning up after them?

Ozanj · 11/10/2021 08:23

She is toxic and a narcissist. I wouldn’t personally leave her and potentially make her your kids problem until they are old enough to argue back. How old are the kids? If they’re teens then waiting until they go to uni and learn about and develop independant and healthy friendships (using you as a role model) might be best.

In the meantime I would start taking over your children’s social diaries if I were you. Just don’t let her have a look in. Take the criticism and negative things but keep a diary of it starting from now. So if you do need to leave before the kids turn 18 the courts can see how abusive she really is & you can push for 50/50 custody or more.

GemmaRuby · 11/10/2021 08:24

I was kind of with you until your idea of making an effort was buying her sexy lingerie.

If you’re having issues, there would be literally nothing more unappealing than being presented with lingerie as if she should just put all her feelings aside and jump into some sexy knickers for you. More concerning you cite her unwillingness to do this as an example of her unreasonableness - not accepting that you got it wrong that time.

You’re obviously not making each other happy, so talk about splitting up.

I’m sure your wife’s side of the story is something along the lines of: I do all the planning and organising, he organises something completely unsuitable and then expects a pat on the head because he’s organised something.

He gets up when he likes, I sort the kids out, he will just sit and watch them fight and not intervene.

There’s no point spending your time and effort convincing everyone here that you’re in the right and your wife is awful - just talk to her about it. And if you’re not happy, leave!

Salayes · 11/10/2021 08:25

Well, children often pick up how to interact with each other from how they see the adults in their life interact. I think you give the kids conflicting messages between you if she is more permissive and you are stricter with their behaviour but you are passive with her (albeit as a learned thing over years) and she is critical and argumentative with you. In that sense you are both modelling conflicting styles of communication to them - strict yet passive outside of them or more permissive but controlling, critical and dominant outside of them.

From what you say about your wife it sounds like she has nothing but contempt for you and potentially has a self-image of being the one to ‘do everything’ and be ‘right’ while you are the ‘useless’ one getting it wrong all the time.

Tbh I don’t see how you can justify staying together because it’s clearly toxic. Definitely think she has a point about earning back privileges, and it does seem off to me that you are being so passive with her but so much more strict in your attitude to disciplining the kids. Sort of feels like your strictness with them (or desire to be stricter) is related to your lack of control in your marriage.

Ozanj · 11/10/2021 08:26

[quote WorkingFromHomeDad]**@ImustLearn2Cook* @litterbird* you asked about parenting. yes I agree there are many theories and nobody is bad. Another poster said I was mean to criticise parenting. She criticises my parenting a lot more than I question hers. Rewards work for 1 child but not the other. That child is much less rule based and much more of a full cup / empty cup child so you have to fill the emotional cup with good fun and bonding before you ask the child to do things. It can be draining as the judge of how full the cup is is the child, not you so as a parent I might think I've filled the fun cup up with fun times but the child doesn't always think so and won't be helpful.

I suppose my only real criticism of her parenting is that the children argue and they use all of the phrases my wife uses to argue with me. My wife has caused this in my view, maybe she has not caused each of their arguments but she has shown them that she argues with me so why can't they argue too?[/quote]
Kids always copy the abuser. You need to Argue back. All you have shown them is it’s okay to bully you as their mum does because you will take it silently. If you argued back (not viciously but firmly) then they will learn it’s not acceptable & may stop emulating her.

rookiemere · 11/10/2021 08:30

What age are your DCs?
I don't know what to say other than I know a couple where the DW is similar but less extreme than your DW. I completely pulled back from any couple or family interactions and DH spends a little bit of time with the DH on his own. He says his DW finds people tricky.

PaulaTrilloe · 11/10/2021 08:50

I second an equal opportunities LTB and I concur that burning the lingerie might prove cathartic to both you and your spouse. Better to burn a bra than burning a bridge.
Seriously my parents had a similar toxic dynamic and at the age of 7 I pleaded with them to split up. None of us were happy.
They stayed together for "the good of the children" until I went to university at 19 and my sister was 16. There were 2 Suicide attempts and several incidents of running away in those intervening years by me & my sibling it wàs that bad to endure as we blamed ourselves for our parents not getting on (and both blamed the children)
As a result I went NC with my father (now dead) my relationship with my mother remains brittle (am on verge of going NC) my sister is a goldenchild people pleaser who is enmeshed with mother and sadly has decided to not communicate with me unless she wants something. So family has imploded. Get your own therapy and keep a journal. Good luck

chilliplant634 · 11/10/2021 09:34

@Ozanj

She is toxic and a narcissist. I wouldn’t personally leave her and potentially make her your kids problem until they are old enough to argue back. How old are the kids? If they’re teens then waiting until they go to uni and learn about and develop independant and healthy friendships (using you as a role model) might be best.

In the meantime I would start taking over your children’s social diaries if I were you. Just don’t let her have a look in. Take the criticism and negative things but keep a diary of it starting from now. So if you do need to leave before the kids turn 18 the courts can see how abusive she really is & you can push for 50/50 custody or more.

This!
Glencoeglenda · 11/10/2021 10:16

It just sounds so miserable. Don’t stay if you are only staying for the kids - they will most likely thrive if you are apart and happier.

I couldn’t let someone speak to me like that and not say anything at the time. That includes your children. It’s not ok for them to witness their dad being made to look stupid, or for you to be undermined constantly.

Timetoretiretospain · 11/10/2021 10:27

@Iwonder08

Don't think of divorce as walking out on your children. 50% of quality time with them is much better than 100% of misery
Totally agree !!
theleafandnotthetree · 11/10/2021 10:35

What do I think? I think she sounds like a total bitch. Aside from all that she seems to hold you in contempt - I have often read that contempt is prettu much fatal in a relationship. I mean people carry on when it's present but it makes for misery and toxicity all round which is so bad for the children.

BasicDad · 11/10/2021 10:58

You are in an abusive relationship no doubt, and 100% your kids are getting affected too.

It's highly likely your wife's abusive behaviour is not because of you, but because of her own upbringing. Your capitulation to her behaviour though is adding fuel to the fire, and in some ways justifies how she is in her own head.

I'm certain your wife behaves like this to mask confronting her own true feelings about herself. You and your children are collateral damage.

You have lost your way. Buying sexy underwear a prime example. I get that you're just trying, even if it was very cumbersome. I think you would benefit greatly from therapy, as you need to find yourself again, and learn how to maintain your boundaries and accept your own feelings and wants.

Your narcissistic wife needs help. A lot of it. Unless she acknowledges it, it's time to part ways. You'll likely need therapy to get to the point of being able to have this conversation with her. Good luck.

WorkingFromHomeDad · 11/10/2021 11:09

@DoormatBob Yes, I do this too, I make a detailed plan and tell her a vague plan or tell her only the bits she would approve of. Afterwards she always asks questions and she is aiming to find something I didn't do that she would have done. I then agree and do that thing (if not too late). She huffs at me if would be too late to do whatever it is.

OP posts:
WorkingFromHomeDad · 11/10/2021 11:22

@RantyAunty Yes I do school runs and take children to clubs. Regarding when I am up, my wife has free time to go out and meet friends in the week while I am working, she has time for her own sports while I'm working. Some of the time I am actually working in my home office though. I just don;t set an alarm clock, that's all, I don't need one as children make noise and get up early, they just might be arguing within a few minutes of getting up so if I am not up and getting them breakfast.

Most days I am doing housework in the evening when my wife is watching TV. I pull my weigh around the house and with children unless it's something I know I will be told off for doing in which case I leave it to my wife and replace that with a job I can do without being told off.

OP posts:
WorkingFromHomeDad · 11/10/2021 11:23

@GemmaRuby That was 1 small idea, my main ideas are all the things I do with the children. My wife is not awful as I have said, there are benefits of someone who takes control of things. She just spoils the times we should be happy quite often. I agree the solution is in me talking but everything I say gets argued with and is wrong. My motivation has waned significantly now.

OP posts:
WorkingFromHomeDad · 11/10/2021 11:24

@PaulaTrilloe Thank you, that's very insightful. We are not quite that bad yet. There are happy times and good exchanges. I am just trying to fix the bad things here but there are good things too.

OP posts: