"Your Dad Makes My Life Hell"

[FuggyPidding]

This is what my Mum said to me on the phone last night.
Now what do I do with that information?

I've name changed for this but have posted about my parents' relationship before. They're both mid-70s and been married for nearly 50 years - though I've no idea why or how. They're completely different people. Mum is kind, caring, thoughtful, positive, sociable... Dad is critical, miserable, bully-ish, negative, anti-social... They like different things and have different outlooks on life. Even little things like my Dad drinks and smokes but Mum doesn't (and doesn't like it when Dad does). She wants to go out and see people, he chooses to stay in, watch TV and sleep in the afternoons.

Every so often, my Mum will just casually drop into conversation something along the lines of 'your Dad was in one of his moods again'... or 'your Dad is being hard work'... or 'your Dad has been saying I've put on weight'... or 'your Dad has been flying off the handle again'... or yesterday's little nugget - 'Your Dad makes my life hell'.
But she'll drop these in after she's talked about the weather or before she mentions something in the news, and she flits from one conversation to the next and when I ask her to go back to what she's just said about Dad or explain things further, she just dismisses it and tells me 'not to worry'.

So yesterday, I ended up ringing her back basically saying, if what she is saying about Dad is true (which I know it is), then we need to talk about it properly and something needs to change. She just laughed it off - though I think my dad was there so she probably couldn't talk even if she wanted to.

It's just frustrating though. This has been going for YEARS. I've said to her before that she doesn't have to put up with it, that if she isn't happy she can do something about it etc, but nothing ever changes. She just continues to express her unhappiness to me in drips and drabs but won't talk about it in depth or take on any of my advice. It just makes me sad as I want to help her (them) and I want her (them) to be happy - but what can I do?
I know they won't do anything too radical like split up, I think they feel they are too old for that. And part of me thinks I should stay out of it as they're both adults and it's their relationship so they need to sort it out.
But I find it really upsetting when I hear my Mum say these things and I do know that my Dad does criticise her, belittle her and I guess, emotionally / verbally abuse her which makes me angry. But what can I do? It's pretty much always been like this and I think Mum has just got used to it and the more she puts up with it, the more my Dad gives. He's not a very nice man.

@Sakurami Thank you. I think that's why I'm frustrated. I listen to the same conversations over and over again, her complaining about my Dad but then not doing anything about it. I can see where she is coming from - I couldn't live with him and I wouldn't put up with it - but the fact she does nothing about it, makes me both angry and sad.

I've offered my support and my advice but nothing changes.

Is there anything else I can do?

Could you turn it back on her and ask her why she is telling you this, i.e. what her expectations are?

To me, it sounds like you've taken on more of a 'parent' role in the relationship. She's not telling you because she wants help; she just gets comfort from feeling that someone cares, and isn't really thinking about the negative impact on you.

@JesusInTheCabbageVan I have asked her why is she telling me, what does she want me to do. She just says she needs to tell someone sometimes so maybe it is her just getting things off her chest. Maybe she doesn't want me to do anything and maybe she knows things won't change but I'm just her sounding board... ??

I don't think she realises how it does impact me, she certainly wouldn't want to upset me on purpose. And I do want to be there for her but not sure how... Maybe all she wants is a listening ear which I do provide.

Your parents sound like my in laws. Although my MIL did leave in the end. FIL was miserable, rude, demanding. He stamped his foot if things weren’t done exactly how he liked it (he didn’t talk to BIL’s wife for a year because she put garlic in gravy that he then ate). He has no friends and refused to socialise at all and criticised everything and everyone. MIL used to sigh sadly, shrug and say, “It’s just what he’s like. You won’t change him. Marriage is forever through thick and thin.” MIL left a decade ago, but she is a devout Catholic and won’t divorce him.

There’s nothing you can do other than provide a listening ear to you mum and a “safety net” if she does decide to leave your Dad. But tell her she can have a different life, even in her 70s. But she needs to actually go and fully sever ties.

MIL now has a lovely life, works, lots of friends and is busy with new hobbies and she has a tiny house that is neat as a pin (I think, partly bought with BIL’s help). Loves gardening. FIL lives alone in the family home, which is filthy with a garden full of fly tipped rubbish. He is a fussy eater but can’t cook, so he lives on toast, fried eggs and takeaway curries. He doesn’t clean or look after himself, although he is able, and lives in squalor. Without MIL on hand to wait on him hand and foot, he badgers SIL and BIL who feel guilty enough to help him.

Single/childless SIL is now adopting the carer role and is being groomed by FIL’s emotional blackmail to take over the role MIL vacated. Beware that you don’t get sucked into that same void.

But MIL can’t sever the ties totally and, because she feels guilty at leaving and sees the state FIL lives in, still does his laundry!

My parents hate each other. They’re both in their 60s. My dad made my life hell as a child.
Just ask your mum to stop bringing it up if she isn’t going to do anything about it ie leave him. Whenever my mum has a moan about my dad, I tell her I’m not interested. She chooses to stay with him, she chose him over her children. I don’t have any sympathy left.

I think so Fuggy. Btw I hope I didn't sound like I was criticising you! It does sound incredibly draining.

Could you perhaps set different boundaries, so that you're more in control of how you receive these little updates? I think anyone would feel helpless and frustrated with the current situation - she's effectively saying 'Oh, by the way dear, I'm desperately unhappy' and then immediately moving the conversation on, leaving you with this big unresolved burden.

So instead, you could express sympathy briefly, and reiterate to her that you would be really happy to have a proper chat about her feelings and possible solutions, and then leave it to her to move the conversation on (or not).

@Turniptracker

Is this kind of relationship typical of boomers because my parents are the same, I could've written your post practically. My mum would never do anything about it as she believes she would never cope without my dad running the household etc.

Yes.

Everyone over the age of 60 has exactly the same awful relationship.
You'll get the booklet through the post when you're 59 Turnip.
There's nothing you can do about it - you will be old, & your life choices set in stone.

My parents are the same and BOTH are telling me how much the other ones annoys them

My mum just tells me and I feel I can just acknowledge it with the right noises.
My dad is aksing for more engagemnet from me (with question along the lines 'how can I convince your mum to go out?)

The reality is that they are both in their 70s, they havent really known anything else apart from each other. I dont think that either of them can conceive a life wo the other.

I think both of them re just wanting a listening ear. I mean we all do thta with our friends don't we? talk about how hard A or B is in our relationhsip (or there is MN!). Everyone has a moan sometimes. I know that with my parents, they don't hjave another outlet other than me so....

That's why I do the 'Im giving you the right noises'. I don't try and fix things, I can't. I don't try and advise (they are old enough to ask for advice if they need some). I stay detached to what is going on (their issues, not mines).

Fwiw, MIL is doing the same with me, albeit at a much lower level.

I think in both cases (parents and PIL) they were both unable to conceive that divorce was a possibility at all.

No it isn't common. No it isn't because they are 'Boomers'. You only have to read on here, there are unhappy marriages of all ages, miserable men and abused women (and sometimes vice versa) of all ages.

There are probably more 'boomers' who have stuck out unhappy relationships because that's what you did.

Plus the children of younger parents are less likely to be on forums like this talking about their parents marriage.

But no, it isn't OK, it isn't common, it isn't something people should just expect because of their age.

Having said all that, it seems unfair that your Mum confides snippets but not enough for you to be able to help, and she doesn't seem to want to leave. So she is laying the worry at your door but with no chance of you making a difference. At the same time, I'd say it's good that the line of communication is kept open, as one day she may feel able to leave, and she will need your support.

My parents have been together for 56 miserable years-I heard so much shit like this through the years. I consider it a form of emotional abuse. Idk what advice to give

I guess she's just venting then. You could decide whether you are happy to soak this up, or you could do what you are doing and make 'inaction' more uncomfortable ('so are you really ok, or do you need to come and stay?' or 'do you want the name of a divorce lawyer'). Or go the opposite way and say 'oh you love him really' and she might gain insight through you minimising it.

It isn't really a "boomer" relationship thing. I'm a boomer, it isn't the norm amongst people I know of my age. If you're going to make it generational I'd say it's more of a 50's thing, when people were expected to stay together no matter what.

It may not be like that with the people you know, but you absolutely cannot deny it is a generational thing. My parents married in the late 60s and people were still expected to stay together no matter what. The no fault divorce which either party could file, didn’t become legal until 1969. It wasn’t until 1996 that being a SAHM was recognised as an equal contribution when calculating divorce settlements.

My parents are in a similar position to the OP to the point they refuse to do marriage counselling because they think it is admitting their marriage has failed and that’s worse than what they are going through, in their minds.

[quote FuggyPidding]@Sakurami Thank you. I think that's why I'm frustrated. I listen to the same conversations over and over again, her complaining about my Dad but then not doing anything about it. I can see where she is coming from - I couldn't live with him and I wouldn't put up with it - but the fact she does nothing about it, makes me both angry and sad.

I've offered my support and my advice but nothing changes.

Is there anything else I can do?[/quote]
It’s not as bad as your father but she’s actually inflicting a great deal of negativity on YOU

@FuggyPidding
My parents argued constantly throughout my childhood, they were both as bad as each other. As a teenager while Df was working nights and notDb was out having fun I was stuck on the settee night after night hour after hour listening to DM whining about her awful childhood and her awful marriage. She would still ring up and use me occasionally as her free therapist after I was married.

The last time I told her OK if it's that bad you can come and stay with us but obviously it's only short term due to lack of space. We'll help you find yourself a little flat or a room in a houseshare and a job and you can join some clubs and make some new friends round here. She never mentioned it again.
It may sound harsh, but I knew she never had any intention of leaving him. She had no problem dumping it all on me though, to the extent that I wouldn't bother her with my problems when I was young because I thought she had so many problems already. Even if I tried to tell her something it would only set her off about a similar problem she'd had years ago, which obviously would be worse than mine.

Don't let her use you as her emotional dumping ground, it's not fair on you. If she won't leave him that is her choice. Next time she brings it up I would just tell her it's pointless discussing it because she won't do anything about it, then change the subject.

@BoredZelda

It isn't really a "boomer" relationship thing. I'm a boomer, it isn't the norm amongst people I know of my age. If you're going to make it generational I'd say it's more of a 50's thing, when people were expected to stay together no matter what.

It may not be like that with the people you know, but you absolutely cannot deny it is a generational thing. My parents married in the late 60s and people were still expected to stay together no matter what. The no fault divorce which either party could file, didn’t become legal until 1969. It wasn’t until 1996 that being a SAHM was recognised as an equal contribution when calculating divorce settlements.

My parents are in a similar position to the OP to the point they refuse to do marriage counselling because they think it is admitting their marriage has failed and that’s worse than what they are going through, in their minds.

Even the '96 change was 25 years ago now, when even the oldest parents mentioned were only 55 and the majority were in their 40s. We are simply talking about all the shit relationships discussed to death on this forum where she didn't LTB.

I could have written this post too.
My mum is so unhappy and I have no idea what to do

There's nothing you can do, and probably your Mum is right and her life would be worse if she separated from your Dad. Most people would find it too late to start over after 50 years and whilst its nice to say she would be fine, it would probably be too much for her. Just like you can get to be too old to move house, you can get to be too old to divorce, which involves moving plus a load of other crap. Also of course its fair that she shares this with you. You are an adult and probably one of the closest people to her. Would you really want her to feel she couldn't off load in such a minor way to you? Its not like she's telling you about Dads sexual perversions or even disgusting toilet habits. She's really just saying he's a disagreeable nuisance, which to be honest you know already.

I know so many couples like this in their 70s married in the 60s/70s
2 couples I know can't even be on the same room as each other
Really, really sad
I'm pretty sure one wife is physically abusive to her h but have no proof
Why don't they just separate?
Baffling

Really over 50s are too old to divorce or move house? Might as well just put up and shut up then. I don't think I've heard such an ageist comment on a long time.

Divorce in over 50s is usually induced by women who have stayed with DPs to keep everyone else happy. They don't want to upset the kids so they stay until the kids are adults and in theory can handle their DMs independence.

Women over 50 have achieved many great things. Here's a link to the Forbes 50 or 50 for starters https: //www.forbes.com/sites/maggiemcgrath/2021/06/02/introducing-the-50-over-50-women-proving-success-has-no-age-limit/

I find it frustrating that so many are ready to dismiss abuse as tit for tat or can't be bothered with the inconvenience of a parental divorce.

It is absolutely for parents not ok to share or burden children with marital woes but you aren't a small child. Ignoring the abuse is dismissive to her and would be to you too. If she pretended life had always been rosy for you and happy families I am sure you would have an issue with that also.

Presumably OPs DM has a few good years left in her yet! Should she not be happy? I go back to my previous advice and say ask her what she wants. If she's happy to stay put then maybe say you don't like it when she moans about DF because ....

@Artdecolover

I know so many couples like this in their 70s married in the 60s/70s 2 couples I know can't even be on the same room as each other Really, really sad I'm pretty sure one wife is physically abusive to her h but have no proof Why don't they just separate? Baffling

They don’t separate because

• they’ve spent their life together and know nothing else. 30, 40, 50 years together is a hell of a long time
• their finances are entangled together and they are worried of living in poverty
• because they can’t actually imagine living wo that person (even if they clearly don’t like each other)
• one of them has some chronic illness and doesn’t want to be on their own
• because Iiving that way is their normal
• because starting a new life from scratch at 70+ is scary

…..

The list is really really long. And it’s certainly not the same than doing so when you are 30, 40 or 50yo

@Sidehustle99 I think you need to think about parents-hildren relation there.

It’s not the same for someone to ask their friend ‘what do you want to do about your marriage?’
It’s not the same for a parent to ask that question to their child.
But when the question comes form a child to a parent, there is this discrepancy between ‘I, as the child, am looking after you’ vs ‘I, as the parent, am looking after you’.
The second one is seen as natural whereas the first one might well never be accepted (by the parent!) and rejected as ‘a child who is getting involved in —adult— things that aren’t their concern’.

I think it’s always harder when it about your parents.

[quote FuggyPidding]@Reallyimeanreally2022 Unpleasant yes, but as other posters have said, pretty common. I always pull my dad up on it now though. He's definitely got worse as he's got older. My parents were generally fine when I was growing up, it's only the last few years or so it's become more of an issue.[/quote]
I find this a sad post
Unpleasant is NOT “normal” for a childhood

Your father is mainly to blame
But your mother definitely contributed

And now, whilst you can distance yourself from your father, your mother is causing the unpleasantness of your childhood to seep in to your adulthood

Like alot of couples in a long term relationship they are probably completely co dependant on one another. Neither can imagine life without the other.
Being in a long term relationship does not guarantee happiness and contentment but it can often feel more secure than being alone.
You find a lot of women your mum's age have never really experienced being alone, until sadly they lose their partner through death. I disagree with the comment you can be too old to move, divorce, etc. Widows have to often deal with moving and adapting to a new way of life, and the ones l know do a good job.
My own mum wasn't particularly happy with my Dad, l know how you feel because she made very similar remarks to me, yet she was far from perfect.
The fact neither of them seemed very happy used to upset me but at the end of the day each and everyone of us is responsible for our own happiness.
I think the secret is "not to put the key to your own happiness in someone else's pocket".

Nothing much to add, just
Like others on here I could have written your post. My mum used to tell me in the car 'just never marry someone like your dad, okay?'. Then we'd arrive home and just get on with things. I used to pray they'd get a divorce when I was little, before I was 10 - I suppose I didn't really know what else to do. I remember being a very sad and frightened child.
I think you're right that she wants to get things off her chest, and that's why she talks to you. It is very sad and confusing to deal with the aftermath of emotion etc, but I was happy to do this. Now sadly we speak less and I just hope everything is okay
to everyone else who has had similar

I agree the child/parent relationship dynamic is important, especially the age of the child.

However it is important to acknowledge when abuse is happening. Counselling for DA focuses on acknowledging what you have been through and recognising that so you don't make similar mistakes in the future.

A key part of healing is also to acknowledge what your children have been through and allowing them to discuss it with you so they feel 'seen'. Often the only people who can relate to familial DA are those in the family unit.

I just worry that the DM is testing if she can have the conversation and is expecting to be batted away, so that's the end of the conversation.

That's why I would ask anyone who made a comment like 'makes my life unbearable' what they meant. Especially as a 'grown' woman my mother. Because I have a vested interest in making sure she is happy - she raised me.

Completely fair enough if it is just a moan to say knock it off though. In this case it sounds a lot like coercive control that has been normalised by everyone in the family. Which is really not on.