Wwyd - Christmas without dc or holiday with exh?

[ChristmasWithDC]

ExH and I split nearly 2 years ago. It’s as amicable as it can be, no cheating on either side. I initiated the split and originally exh wanted us to try again but has now accepted it. We both now have partners - I’ve been with someone for just over a year and he’s been with someone nearly half his age for a few months.

Anyway, when we split we agreed we’d alternate Christmas. ExH works over 200 miles away and also often has to work in the states for weeks at a time. I had dc last Christmas but Exh came over for the afternoon as he couldn’t travel anyway due to Covid. This year exh is due to be in the states from early Dec to end of Dec. His suggestion is that I take dc to somewhere in the Caribbean and he comes and joins us with his girlfriend for a few days staying at the same or nearby hotel. I said I wasn’t really comfortable doing that so he said then he’d ask his parents to do it so that he could still have his Christmas with them.

Dc are 5 and 9 so still absolutely love Christmas. I could cope with not having them for Christmas Day but for a whole week I’d feel absolutely bereft. ExH is very good with dc when he’s with them but due to his job I have essentially been a single parent for most of their lives in terms of time spent with them. He would generally only spend 2-3 days a month with us as a family even when we were married.

I’d like to think we could spend Christmas together but it’s not so much exh that I couldn’t tolerate being around, it’s his new girlfriend. She’s 23, an “influencer” and generally just spends her time either photographing herself with my dc/ asking me to photograph her with my dc/ posting photos on Instagram of her with my dc with the caption “family love 💕”/ giggling like a lunatic at whatever exh says, even if it’s something like “the traffic is bad today”/ making incredibly unsubtle “sexy” comments in front of exh.

It probably sounds like I’m jealous of the new girlfriend, maybe I am. I’m certainly jealous that she’s early 20’s, looks amazing and somehow makes money from photos of her arse. But mostly she’s just incredibly annoying.

I don’t know how much time we’d be expected to spend together though. ExH has said he’d like to be there when dc open their stockings and for us all to do a Christmas dinner together. I could cope with just that. I’m just concerned I’d get out there and be expected to spend my days with a 23 year old pretending to be the mother of my kids and end up absolutely blowing my top at her.

Wwyd?

So he wants to fly the DC To the Caribbean to just spend three days with them and then have either you/his parents look after them on the days he’s not there….

Has he thought about their return? Has he realised that they/you (or his parents) would need to quarantine for 10-14 days as they are not vaccinated?

I’m sorry, but it would be a no from me!

Tell him that he needs to come back to the UK, as it’s easier for him being fully vaccinated etc.

In normal times, maybe.

At the moment, absolutely not. Too many risks. Your small DC will have to wait 3+ hours in the horrendous queues at Heathrow. What happens if one of them tests positive while on holiday and has to isolate in a hotel room for 10 days away from you?

I see that you want to facilitate contact so he can be a good dad for a short time when it suits him - but facilitating contact to me means having the kids ready at pick up time, not long haul travel so that he can do a bit of Disney Daddying with the girlfriend. He’s treating you as the nanny. It’s up to him to make the effort to see them - maybe a job with less travelling would be a start?

It’s not a reasonable suggestion that you take your children on such a long trip for stocking opening and dinner with their dad. I couldn’t see a court ordering you to bring them to him and provide childcare when he’s too busy creating content with the girlfriend. The boys won’t be harmed by not going - it’s not parental alienation not to jump to his tune.

And even if his parents were to take them out to him, you and your sons shouldn’t have to be apart for a whole week at Christmas just because your ex puts his comfort and convenience above his children’s. For him to think that he shouldn’t be expected to take a long flight, airport queues and then a 5 hour drive but to think it’s OK for his young children to have to do it - and risk quarantine because of Covid - is not really him showing that he is in anyway a good dad. He sounds like a totally selfish shit, who values his own status as successful international businessman far more than his role as a father.

It would be different if you wanted to go, but you don’t- the travel sounds awful so I wouldn’t want to go either - so don’t feel you have to act as a courier/nanny for his children to save him some bother.

Just no.
That's it
No

He doesn't want to fly, queue and travel but he has no qualms about making his kids do that?
So selfish.

Sorry but this is an insane plan
If he was suggesting coming to get them and taking them away for a week himself that would be one thing, but he's proposing that YOU bring them half way across the world so he can spend 2 days with them?? Fuck. That.
Tell him no. He comes here or he doesn't see them. Sad but them's the breaks.

Right, I’m going to go against the grain here- I think you should let his parents take them if they are willing to.

If your ex works away this much then spending time with him abroad is going to be in your boys’ future if they are going to see him.

I understand that will be awful for you but that’s the situation you have.

I’m very much pro men being given fair/as equal as possible opportunities to see their children when they’ve split from the mother, but this expectation of his is ridiculous! He sounds a little bit giddy over/wrapped around the fingers of this new girlfriend and is expecting everyone else to fit around her because he can pay for them to do so.

I’d reply that it’s just too much trouble for everyone for just a couple of days with their dad. Tell him to have his Caribbean Christmas with his girlfriend, if that’s what’s important to him, and to come and have proper time with the boys in the U.K. when he can. Tell him the boys love their Xmas at home and all the fun of the Xmas holidays and it’s too much to expect them to give that up in their first real Xmas without two parents.

It’s all very well trying to be fair and make sure parents have alternate years with the boys over Xmas, but what he’s suggesting is far too much too soon.

1. Why should you spend all that time travelling instead of him? Is your time less valuable than his?
2. The kids want to stay at home, see friends etc
3. She posts images of your kids online. I would ask her to stop this immediately and remove all past photos from her grid. That contributes to their digital footprint FOREVER. I am angry on your behalf
4. She sounds awful and seems to be using your ex as a sugar daddy but that’s beside the point. Can he not pay for a fancy London hotel for them that she can Instagram to death. That would look good on her grid.

On the surface of it this appears a complex dilemma- you are trying to balance the need of your boys to see their father, with your own desire to spend time with them at Christmas- a special family time.

Underpinning this however is a continuation of how I suspect your marriage was conducted: your ex travelling and providing money and you facilitating this by providing care for your joint children.

Your ex does not appear to grasp that this is no longer the dynamic- he wishes to have his life facilitated by throwing money at a problem and expects you to fulfil what was previously your side of the bargain.

You may wish to shield your sons from the fact that their father is not interested in parenting them and this is a natural impulse. You are no longer a couple however and are not responsible for his choices, only your own.

I think if you can decide to put your energies into being the best parent you can be, and leave your ex to take responsibility for his own actions and decisions you will feel a lot more settled. It is very freeing. The outcome in large part will be the same but you will be happier

You're a lone parent with a hard slog in front of you so do what works best for you - you and your life are important too.

No if he wants Christmas with them he should travel over to them.

The instagram thing is worth fighting. Scroll forward a few years, how are they going to feel about being used like that? You can report to instagram and demand their removal if she refuses to take them down.

Other posters have nailed it - he expects all of you to inconvenience yourselves to suit him. Fuck that for a game of soldiers. He's an arrogant, entitled arse who is only thinking about himself. Nor has he realised the likely impact of allowing the GF to exploit his kids online for his future relationship with them.

I don't think you need to facilitate this to any great extent. Certainly not on for you to have to travel to the Carribean for his benefit. It's his issue where he works and if he wants Christmas with his children, he needs to come up with a plan involving a lot less from you.

Re the girlfriend- hardly responsible for her to be seeing your children at all. She's only known your ex a few months and it doesn't necessarily sound like it will be a long term relationship. I wouldn't be at all happy about their images being posted publicly like that. They're not fully anonymous. What about face recognition technology?

@Feministwoman

Just no. That's it No

This.

Not a chance.

You don't need to be facilitating this. If he's due to have them xmas day or whenever then he needs to make plans to see them that don't impact too much on you and the kids.

So he can use some annual leave to the uk to see them - if he can fly to the Caribbean he can fly to the uk.

Expecting you and/ or the kids to fly to the Caribbean just to see him is unreasonable. He's just Disney dadding massively here.

I’d stick to the alternative year plan snd let him
Sort out the DC this year. If he can’t then you see them. I wouldn’t be travelling around the world to fit in with his plans.

No chance! if its his Xmas then he can have them Xmas day.... in England! None of this is fair on you or the kids. It would be a big fat no from me

Just say no.

So he COUKD fly to the U.K. to see his DC but doesn’t want to as it’s a massive faff for him. But it’s perfectly ok for you to drag your arse on a long flight plus somehow take all the DC’s presents too?

Yeah, that’s a big fat nope.

Also alternate Christmases don’t mean whisking your DC away for a week so the other parent can’t see them. Most split parents share to some extent so both get some time over the holiday period.

Your DC are quite young, especially your little one. The GP are horrible to you and barely know you’d DC. Plus DP will have to work so they’ll be in holiday club over Christmas instead of with family and friends.

He’s got a bloody cheek even suggesting this shit!! And I’m another one who normally insists on parents being fair re access. Absolutely no bloody way. And remember if you do it once you’ve set a precedent, so you’ll be expected to do it again next time it’s his turn.

I come from parents who divorced and I absolutely wouldn’t have held this decision against you. He’s being entitled and demanding, plus very very selfish.

@Cruiser11

????

I have family in the carribean and trust me it's a hard going flight. Depending what island your looking at an almost 10 hour flight, then sometimes another 2 hours waiting for your bags and passport control...that was before covid as well. You mentioned you would have a long journey this side as well so your looking at a very long day of travelling for small kids on your own.

OP,m I thought someone one was a posting about me when I first started reading!

I'm in a similar situation, similar age kids too.

Although we are going Dubai and I want to go, there is no GF either.

In your circumstances I would say no and you also need to be much firmer with the GF using your kids as insta content.

The journey is too far for such a small visit with dad, you will be alone at Christmas - you've havnt decided to take a weeks holiday with the kids this is your Christmas time too, you may get caught up in huge delays at the airport. It was never discussed that he would be able to take the kids for the entire Christmas week.

Its not doable on this occasion.

Eugh, poor you. It’s not practical, covid, their age, sun sensitivity, insta girlfriend, it would make an awesome novel or romcom though.

please dm me her instatag so I can giggle

that’s just it though, he wouldn’t see them. The boys miss their dad terribly and, although he’s a generally shit person he is very good with them when he does actually see them. I don’t ever want them to look back on their childhood and think I didn’t do everything I could to facilitate contact.

OP, I think you need to have a good long think about what arrangements will be sustainable through the boys' childhoods. If your youngest is 5 then you've got over a decade before he reaches adulthood - my advice would be not to set a precedent now of doing something that you won't want to continue doing throughout. You don't even want to do it now, so don't! The boys don't want to go either, the only person this arrangement is good for is your ex.

Doing everything you can to facilitate contact doesn't mean putting your ex's wants first. As long as you are making the children available to them that is fine, you are not required to either ship them or also go traipsing yourself halfway around the world - especially when The Big Man won't even consider doing it himself! Doing everything he can to facilitate contact would mean changing his lifestyle to recognise the fact he has children. Unfortunately your children's dad seems to be a bit of a waster in terms of parenting, but you won't help them by trying to overcompensate for this. You will help them by being the reliable, predictable, sensible parent who is always there for them.

You have offered him sensible alternatives. He has refused. Your next move should not be to roll over and capitulate to him.