Wwyd - Christmas without dc or holiday with exh?

[ChristmasWithDC]

ExH and I split nearly 2 years ago. It’s as amicable as it can be, no cheating on either side. I initiated the split and originally exh wanted us to try again but has now accepted it. We both now have partners - I’ve been with someone for just over a year and he’s been with someone nearly half his age for a few months.

Anyway, when we split we agreed we’d alternate Christmas. ExH works over 200 miles away and also often has to work in the states for weeks at a time. I had dc last Christmas but Exh came over for the afternoon as he couldn’t travel anyway due to Covid. This year exh is due to be in the states from early Dec to end of Dec. His suggestion is that I take dc to somewhere in the Caribbean and he comes and joins us with his girlfriend for a few days staying at the same or nearby hotel. I said I wasn’t really comfortable doing that so he said then he’d ask his parents to do it so that he could still have his Christmas with them.

Dc are 5 and 9 so still absolutely love Christmas. I could cope with not having them for Christmas Day but for a whole week I’d feel absolutely bereft. ExH is very good with dc when he’s with them but due to his job I have essentially been a single parent for most of their lives in terms of time spent with them. He would generally only spend 2-3 days a month with us as a family even when we were married.

I’d like to think we could spend Christmas together but it’s not so much exh that I couldn’t tolerate being around, it’s his new girlfriend. She’s 23, an “influencer” and generally just spends her time either photographing herself with my dc/ asking me to photograph her with my dc/ posting photos on Instagram of her with my dc with the caption “family love 💕”/ giggling like a lunatic at whatever exh says, even if it’s something like “the traffic is bad today”/ making incredibly unsubtle “sexy” comments in front of exh.

It probably sounds like I’m jealous of the new girlfriend, maybe I am. I’m certainly jealous that she’s early 20’s, looks amazing and somehow makes money from photos of her arse. But mostly she’s just incredibly annoying.

I don’t know how much time we’d be expected to spend together though. ExH has said he’d like to be there when dc open their stockings and for us all to do a Christmas dinner together. I could cope with just that. I’m just concerned I’d get out there and be expected to spend my days with a 23 year old pretending to be the mother of my kids and end up absolutely blowing my top at her.

Wwyd?

God no sounds bloody awful.... my kids are always with me Christmas Day for this reason.... we agreed that 2ing frowing is not ideal for kids especially on Christmas Day.

They are young once and it's such a short window of believing Christmas is magical

I'd say no to all of it frankly it's not fair on the children.

What’s the normal arrangement then? He’d have them Xmas day and you on Boxing Day? How the hell is he keeping up with a 23 year old!!!

Who’s looking after the kids on the holiday if you don’t go?

Then it's a "Bob, the agreement is you have them for X days, not 2+X+3 days. Happy to work around you to facilitate that but that doesn't involve me flying them across the world"

No. Tell him to fly home to see them if he's that bothered. Otherwise he forfeits his Xmas.

@twoandeights

Is he paying for it all? If he was I’d go and make sure it was top spec at his expense. Just spend as little time with the 20 year old as possible. If he’s expecting you to pay for a Xmas trip to the Caribbean to facilitate his contact?? Jog on! You don’t have to agree to him taking them out of the country. Are the countries he wants to go to even on the Covid green list? Have you checked that? Lots of those places are Red list and you can’t travel there. Mexico is red list for example.

I agree with this. If he is paying, go enthusiastically and ensure that he does the childcare (all of it) for 'his' time. You go and spend time with your boyfriend.

It amazes me how people can make money out of photos of their arses too

@Naunet

What?! The OP literally says "It probably sounds like I’m jealous of the new girlfriend, maybe I am. I’m certainly jealous that she’s early 20’s, looks amazing and somehow makes money from photos of her arse"

I was not implying from thin air that OP might be jealous because someone is younger / prettier, the OP has written that themselves.

Nothing "patriarchal" about it.

Not a chance I'd agree to this. He expects you or his parents to travel across the world so he can see the kids for a few days? Are his parents happy to travel with the kids and mind them while he's working? Even if he was paying for you all to go, hotel bill and all expenses while there, I wouldn't agree to it. Why should your Christmas plans be dictated by him? Suggest he either comes home for a few days assuming he has time off work - he must do if he's planning on having the kids - or he gets to see them when he gets home.

His plan is sounds superficially lovely but it only takes 60 seconds of serious consideration to realise it is bonkers on many levels.

He is in the US, not on Mars. He needs to fly home to the UK. When I lived in the US I had to do several long-weekend type trips and it is perfectly manageable. I have friends who fly to the US and back in a single day for work. If he's on the East Coast it would probably actually be quicker to fly back to the UK, depending on what part of the Caribbean he is suggesting (it is a massive area).

And even if he is further west, tough titties. As an adult travelling alone he is much better placed to cope with the consequences of jet lag etc than you with two young children and Christmas-in-a-bag.

In light of your update would just say no. If he wants them this xmas he returns to the uk. No court would deem you unreasonable, especially given the current global issues!

Personally the social media thing would be a huge deal out of concern for DCs’ safety etc, and I wouldn’t drop it.

I don't really understand why he can fly to the Carribbean for a few days but not fly to the UK. I know it's a shorter flight but if he's got time off to do that then surely he can come to the UK.

Is he planning on having the kids in a family room with his girlfriend? Presumably they’re too young to be in a room on their own??
What does the GF think about that??
I think the whole Covid travel thing means it’s entirely ok to say no.

The onus is on the parent to facilitate visits, so if he cant arrange not to work over Christmas in the Carribbean ( is he actually working there or just on a hol with his GF? ) it's actually his job to fly back to pick them up, then take them wherever, for the few days you've agreed you would alternate. If he wouldn't be having them a whole week over Xmas when in the same country, he shouldn't expect the whole week in the Carribbean, and as a few days isn't practical, it would not be happening so just say no.
Given that they've only been together a few months, and she's already posted 'family love' days, just how early on did she meet them? He should not have introduced them so soon.
As your BF can't go, I'd certainly not be going, as from his pov, he may well start to wonder why you are allowing your ex to put his relationship with you out, just for his convenience, and he'd have a fair point. You may be trying too hard to keep the peace here. If a few days over Xmas is what is agreed, then that's how it goes - he doesn't get to bend the rules as out of the country. Time to care less what his parents think.

Read about people testing positive for CV19 whilst the Caribbean, I wouldn't put my children through that. Plus possible isolation return and testing etc (countries may change status quickly)

He can fly back to the Uk as easily as to the Caribbean. Get him do that.

If you can do it I would, they've got their entire lives to have Christmas in damp cold England.

I’d be having the time on holiday with my 2 D.C.

It’s not like your in the same house etc it’ll be a holiday resort with so much going on the new girlfriend will be diluted by many others

I don’t like the sound of not trusting him to do suncream, that would incline me to say the arrangement is 3 days, not 5 of 7 plus I fly them out to you. I’ll make them available on x date as planned and expect them back y date. I don’t think you can stipulate he not leave the country though? Which is super annoying if they might have to isolate!!

The parents are unsuitable so cross that off now and forget about it.

If he was so bothered surely he would have planned annual leave in advance?

It all sounds great if money is not a problem, and covid issues and flights are all ok. sounds like a treat for everyone.

If he flew to the Uk she might come with him anyway - I would choose different hotels and then the kids could stay with them at some point and you at another point.

You are well within your rights to say no to him (or his parents) taking them out of the country. Would I hell be going the whole week over Christmas without seeing the dc because my ex didn't want the bother of flying back here for 'his' Christmas. He comes to you and takes them for the day or he forfeits his year.
And no I wouldn't go on a week long holiday I didn't want to go on to facilitate him and his ridiculous request either.

It’s his turn for Christmas but he isn’t available due to work. Therefore I would say, that you should have your DC for Xmas.

If he can fly to the Caribbean surely he can fly home?

I would make the children available to him in the UK as per your agreement but if he chooses to stay abroad that’s him choosing to stay away from them for Christmas. I wouldn’t be trailing off to the Caribbean and I wouldn’t facilitate his parents taking them either. The children will not give two hoots about being in the Caribbean - at their age I bet they want a cosy Christmas at home with all the traditions. Stop dancing to his tune - if he wants to be a parent he needs to stop spending half his life around the other side of the planet from his children!

@NigelSlatersXmasTaters

In the current climate where we've seen countries close their borders at a moments notice and families separated due to covid regulations there's no way I'd let them go without me. Even if it's not "fair". Life isn't fair, he can have them but he'll have to travel to them to do it.

And this. No chance in this post covid world would my children be abroad without me.

His argument for not flying to the UK is that it’s a longer flight and he’d have to travel the 5 hours from the airport to mine, he’s convinced they’ll still be 3 hour delays to get through Heathrow, then he’ll have to do the same on the way back. I’d be happy to get dc to London so he could spend a couple of days with them but that’s not acceptable either. I expect it’s more that his girlfriend is US based and she’s putting the pressure on for him to do it this way.

If I didn’t go the dc would be with their grandparents in the mornings and evenings but the rest of the time (apart from the 3 days exh was there, but quite possibly for at least 1 of those days too) in the kids club/ with a nanny.

ExH would pay for it all and I’m sure he’d book somewhere nice, especially if he’s trying to impress his girlfriend. To be perfectly honest, I just can’t be arsed. The kids would rather be at home, seeing their friends and doing proper Christmas stuff than there. If I went it would be a slog too as 5yo isn’t a great swimmer, 9yo is a ridiculously over confident swimmer and I know they’d want to spend their whole time in the water trying to drown themselves while I try and split myself in two to keep them both alive and entertained. Also exh’s whole issue of a 5hour drive to the airport plus 3 hours to get through Heathrow is just passed onto me/ his parents. It’s not like the issue goes away.

This is the first real Christmas we’ve done apart. Last year due to Covid exh wasn’t travelling for work so could come down and stayed with friends nearby.