Another sex one... can it be ok to stay? Has anyone ever found a way back?

[Baseballkitten]

DH and I are currently seeing Relate, we’ve not been operating as a couple for years and years - I have had the dc unilaterally and he’s carried on as if more or less single.
Three areas at Relate are: time as couple, communication and sex.

I am basically only here for the dc although I care about Dh. I can’t decide if I’d miss him or if it would be missing the family unit and the safety and familiarity. He used to be away for work for a couple of weeks at a time and I didn’t ever miss him but I suppose that’s not the same thing.

We’ve had a really poor sex life for a very long time and we were at six years and counting. However since we sort of hit crisis point and started seeing Relate DH is trying to initiate sex quite frequently - and I still don’t want to. I can’t imagine ever wanting to, but that seems a really awful thing to say. A few times I’ve just gone along with it because I know it must be hurtful to DH and also I can feel it makes him angry, which is reasonable as rejection is hurtful.
But when we do have sex I try and work out how few times I can get away with kissing him. How quickly I can make it be over. Afterwards i usually feel really upset.
I can only ever see me being in a place where I tolerate sex with DH, at best. It makes me feel dread - when he does the whole ‘let’s get the dc to bed early and have an early night’ I feel dread and resignation in equal parts.

But I want to keep my family together. I don’t know what to do about this. I genuinely can’t see it changing but I suppose I hope that it will. There’s never been much of a spark from my side I suppose and we’ve been together for nearly 20 years and married for 15. DH is a perfectly nice looking man - and yet, and yet, intimacy with him feels weird and uncomfortable to me. Kissing him makes me feel awful, I don’t decide it, my body just goes nope. The thought of oral sex with him is absolutely no, but luckily (I suppose) he’s never liked giving and so has never done that. I might possibly be able to make myself give but receiving would be an absolute no now. Years ago I would have liked him to but never really discussed it as I knew he didn’t like it, which again is fair enough.

Sorry, that was long.
Is there a possible way forwards? I am not asexual or anything, I just don’t fancy DH I suppose, but it is more than that.
I know logically the options are:
Stay and keep having sex I don’t want and hope it improves.
Stay and tell DH I can’t have sex with him again - he wouldn’t want to open the marriage and nor would I really. I think it could be messy. I appreciate if I don’t want sex with him he is entitled to leave to find someone else.
Or just accept the marriage is over and leave.

There are dc involved here too.

You'll leave eventually. Best do it now while you're calm.

Be mentally prepared that when you meet a new man, sex will take over and you won't be good for anything but, for quite a while. Really, use this time to sort out a life without your dh.

So even at the beginning sex with him was just ok and tolerable. That is really sad op. For both of you. Is it his technique or him or a communication issue? Has sex with other people been good? Were you ever attracted to him?

That aside it is understandable to lose attraction to someone who doesn't pull his weight with childcare and housework.

I suppose he’s never put much effort in?! I remember the first time, we were at his and he just said ‘let’s go to bed then, it’s going to happen so we might as well get on with it.’ Or something to that effect, that was the gist.
He’s never wanted to give oral sex, which is ok because if he doesn’t like it, he doesn’t like it. I’d only had one relationship before him and it was something I previously enjoyed, sex in there relationship wasn’t a chore. I used to give oral sex but then stopped because I don’t love it and I was only doing it for his sake. I cannot imagine EVER doing it again now with him. It would be too weird.
It’s always been exactly the same, five minutes foreplay, into full sex.

In that relationship

Is this how you want to model adult relationships to your dc? I don’t think it sounds at all good for them. You don’t want your dh, why are you holding onto this? Don’t you think it would be a better life without him asking for sex, you having the ick and just burying your head?

Have you explored with him the idea of a sexless marriage? It doesn’t sound as if he has a particularly high sex drive. Some people do go forward with their marriage as friends and co parents. Tbh, if you want to stay married because you value your home life, it’s the only way forward. You can’t continue feeling repulsed and dreading his touching you. How about starting an open conversation about this possibility?

Essentially it has been a sexless marriage overall.
He’s now on about ‘booking a dirty weekend away.’ Urgh. I don’t like the clear expectation that we will have to have sex, although i do understand that would be a normal expectation for a couple having a night away.
I want to want him, that’s the problem. Every time I hope it’ll be different and it isn’t.
I don’t think my children are aware of the problems with my sex life. I hope.

You are sacrificing yourself and your your feelings and allowing boundaries to be crossed here. You are doing damage to yourself. Your feelings are valid and should be your top priority. No-one else will prioritise them. Stop now and think. In the future, do you want your children to carry the burden of your unhappiness because you've wasted your life and your happiness trying to keep this marriage together. Imagine yourself at the end of your life looking back. What do you want to see? What path would you want to see yourself taking at this point?

Op I really don't understand why you want to stay married to him. Do you fear divorce? Are you afraid of starting again? Do you maybe like the status of being married?

From what you've written it doesn't sound like you're compatible in any way whatsoever and that there is nothing to save in the first place.

You find sex with him abhorrent. You have never really liked sex with him.

There is no intimacy with you at all and doesn't sound like there ever has been.

You also seem woefully incompatible lifestyle wise. There appears to be a complete lack of support for you from him in this relationship.

Can I ask why you got married and how you felt about marrying him?

I don't think you're asexual and you enjoyed sex in a previous relationship. Many women lose their desire for their husbands when they become the family skivvy but the strength of your abhorrence to physical contact with him and the fact that you say you never had a good sex life seems to rule that out. I think he's just the wrong man for you.

Your children will work it out if you only stay in the marriage for them and will end of feeling guilty and dealing with complex feelings they may not understand.

The best thing both you and your husband can do for yourselves, each other and the children is to be free to pursue happiness and sadly it doesn't sound like that's together.

I can't even say its like you're flogging a dead horse with therapy because it doesn't sound like there even I'd a horse.

Maybe if you did have the weekend away you’d start reconnecting with your DH. I don’t mean just sexually but maybe you’d enjoy each other’s company and do some fun stuff away from the normal routine of work, house and DC.
I think I’d give it a go as he is making the effort to suggest going.
Then reassess when you get back home. If you still can’t stand the thought of having sex with him or kissing him then it’s time to separate.

@Baseballkitten

Essentially it has been a sexless marriage overall. He’s now on about ‘booking a dirty weekend away.’ Urgh. I don’t like the clear expectation that we will have to have sex, although i do understand that would be a normal expectation for a couple having a night away. I want to want him, that’s the problem. Every time I hope it’ll be different and it isn’t. I don’t think my children are aware of the problems with my sex life. I hope.

I'd go for the weekend away but make it clear it's a reconnection weekend and not a dirty weekend. Do some activities you'll both enjoy and see if you can find any common ground again. There's no harm in giving it a shot - at least you'll know you've tried everything if the marriage does end.

OBVIOUSLY you don't want sex with somebody who merrily lives the single life leaving you with all of the responsibility. That's a massive turn off. Don't over ride that!

Why wouldn't you start again? Fear?

It’s just now it’s more than being ambivalent to it, it’s actively not wanting it.

This is not just about sex. I don't see you saying what a wonderful guy he is and how much you adore him and what fun you have together and what a pity you don't want to have sex with him because in every way he's fantabadoozy. Instead your body is confirming what your heart already knows but your head doesn't want to accept - you don't love him and you don't really like him.

You want to stay married but you don't want to be married to him. You want some magic to happen to turn him into the kind of guy you want to be married to. But he isn't and by the sound of things he never really was.

I want to want him, that’s the problem.

There are still a lot of gay men who want to want women. But what they want isn't women. I don't know what you do want, but it isn't your husband.

a normal expectation for a couple having a night away.

A normal expectation is that they enjoy each other's uninterrupted company. Whether they have sex or not is a different question. You already said you don't miss him when he's not there. Do you enjoy his company when he is there?

Gosh OP
I have been reading this thread and responses with great interest. Except for the relate part (DH thinks counselling = divorce, and won't go near it), I could be writing your post.
I have been thinking about this: I did have several relationships before my DH and sex was great with some and not so good with others, as is the norm. With DH it was ok, but certainly it was never like it is now when I can't stand the thought of him touching me. He also proposed a dirty weekend away and I had the same reaction. Urgh.

I've been thinking about this and for me, it is what a pp said. Being treated as the family skivvy has killed all my attraction for him, I used to be on a high 6 figure salary (although he earned more than me due to bonus), but I wanted to be at home for the kids as I didn't particularly like my career and I didn't want both of us working city hours. I guess I hadn't realised that meant that I was reduced to skivvy. Our lives separated at that point pretty much as you have described: he kept going for 6 hour drinking binges with work and in the office, and sleeping till 12 every weekend while I was ground down with the lack of sleep and tiredness that will come with 2 under 2. I only survived because he earned enough that he paid for a mother's help during the week, and then of course dd1 got the 15 hours thank god. I used that time to retrain and go back to work.

So I too like you want the marriage to work. Yes for the kids, but also because of the perception of not being divorced, and I still remember the affection and all the fun times I had with him before kids and he relegated me to a status below the dog in the household. But also very much for the finances if I am honest. I have retrained and gotten a not very well paying job in an entirely different field, and although I'm quite happy to live on this salary, it would be a massive change to how we live currently. It would be free though - lonely but free. Not more pestering for sex and sulks when I said no.

I don't know if it's worth staying OP. I haven't made up my mind yet. I'm drifting. I am wondering if there is any magic pill I can take to increase my libido and decrease my resentment of him. As you said many women lose their sex drive after kids and maybe it can come back.

Sorry for the long post. Just wanted to share my experience I guess. I hope you are happy whatever you end up deciding.

Hmm, you want to want him and he wants to save the marriage. There should be something you can work on there. But he needs to work on it as well, it sounds as though neither of you has ever really communicated about your sex life, you have passively accepted his disinterest and he has not bothered to find out what you want or made any effort to satisfy you. Most couples these days would expect to give and receive oral as a normal part of the relationship, he needs to realise that the lack of it, and the other problems you have mentioned, are genuine issues for you and if he is serious about saving the marriage he needs to tackle them. I suggest you use the weekend away to make all this clear to him and then give him a few weeks to see how he reacts before making a final decision.

Why did you stay with him when the sex was so bad? It sounds like your marriage is dead in the water, i can't see what would be gained by painfully stringing it out..

I left my husband for a vaguely similar issue- I couldn't bring myself to have sex with him.

My ex husband (have 1 DC) is a lovely man, fantastic partner and would have done anything for me. He truly was my best friend. However, the second I became pregnant I couldn't bare him physically near me. Any intimicy at all would make me feel sick (and he's a good looking man). When he touched me, it felt incestuous and I'd end up in tears if he came near me.i persevered for another 5 years after our child was born as I put it down to pregnancy hormones but it just got worse. He felt depressed and rejected and I was anxious and crying at the thought of sex. Ending my marriage was the hardest thing ever as he was truly my best friend and na excellent partner and father, sometimes I still have some regret because although I love my current parent, my ex was a much better partner and support.
However, I don't believe you can stay in a marriage like this. A marriage is about the family but also about the intimicy. The only way I foresee it working is if you both are genuinely happy to be together but never have sex again, do you honestly think he would be happy with this? Also, you say you do have sexual feeling, just not with him. Do you never want to enjoy sex again?
I completely understand you wan to keep your family together. I spent 5 years in my marriage after knowing I couldn't bare intimicy, just to keep my family together and because I loved my husband. However it did not work, it built resentment on both sides and was damaging for us both.
It sounds as if you are living seperate lives. You would be better off moving on seperately and building new lives for yourselves. It's never nice knowing the family will break up when children are involved but you can co-parent efficiently and the children will adjust, they'll be much better off brought up with parents who are apart but happy.

*intimacy

I do understand that fear of ''becoming'' a single mother. I used to fear it. But it is very empowering in the end. I felt lower status for a while but that was very good for me in the long run as I stopped thinking about validation as being something that you tapped in to from The External.
Now I am better off, own job, not relying on anybody else's income, compromise, mercy

I have done a one eighty. No longer fear being seen as a pitiable single mother through the eyes of a married woman. I look at some married women now and see their fearfulness and their dependence on another person's willingness to compromise, respect, sacrifice equally and I just feel lucky. Nothing holds you down in life like a shit husband.

You resent him, and have done for years, justifiably.
And that has poisoned the marriage. It's dead.
What you're doing now is really endangering your mental health.
This isn't "maintenance " sex which some wives are ok with.
This is actively abhorrent to you. And he must know that on some level, yet still puts you through it.
That is NOT a good man.
Please get out before you lose your marbles.

Sounds like he has never made any effort regarding sex, no wonder it has only ever been ok at best - might as well go to bed (basically let’s fuck) comment is hardly going to set anyone alive with passion
If your both not really happy with your sex life you will never be really happy in your marriage- fulfilling sex is the thing that bonds us in such a powerful way if it is shit I think it won’t work, you also deserve to find this in life don’t settle for less
Tell him how you feel how can it make things worse, he must know how you feel to some extent at least
Starting from the total lack of effort in the beginning it’s hard to see things getting to a good place
Having sex to keep the pease will be destructive at best - good luck

Lots of sympathy here, I worry dh and I are on this path. Youngest dc is 4 and I think we've had sex maybe 5 times since he was conceived. The thing that keeps us together is the kids, life, shared values, dh generally pulls his weight with things. I hope one day i fancy him again but I don't know how likely that is. We don't have much fun together and I think that's a large part of it. We tend towards the serious. I always think that it'll go one way or the other when the kids are older and we have more time.

I totally understand how you feel OP— in my case it is due to behaviour - a past emotional affair where I read romantic stuff he had written about someone else and also a daily amateur porn habit behind my back (he doesn’t know I know this) - always lesbian stuff. I just mentally no longer felt the same on a sexual/romantic level and yet I do care and we get on well. I am late 50s and I just dont want sex with him- not sure if I would anymore with anyone- I no longer have kids in the equation either . I actually can feel myself clam up when it does happen - and yet I don’t want an open marriage either- it’s a very hard decision to make as if I offer staying marriage but sexless I think he would say ok but I don’t think that’s really fair either-

It sounds like you like the idea of being married and staying married, but the physical side of things is a non starter.

It's not like it was ever great and it's reduced to good or average....it was below average has gone from bad to worse. To the point it seems like torture to be intimate with him.

I think his carrying on as a single man while you carried the parental load, has caused resentment thst you can't come back from. Someone can by objectively physically attractive, but their personality is not nice.

He's been unsupportive in parenting and that's enough to turn a woman off. He might be improving now, but it doesn’t erase the past and that was when the kids would have been younger and you were doing it all alone.

I think given what you have said about the aversion to sex and the brief separation you had, and the way that you operate so you are effectively acting as a single parent; that it sounds like the marriage is over.

I've recently separated with my ex-h for good and have come out the other side, but for a very long time (years), I felt that ending the marriage was too traumatic, even though in my heart I knew we couldn't repair it. I think it's like a grief and you go through those stages. So you can be suffering and trying to bargain with yourself over how you'll deal with it, but you haven't accepted it's over. Honestly, it can take a long time to accept the marriage (and hence the nuclear family) is over.

It is heartbreaking, but life gets better. You'll still be a family even if you break up. And probably a happier one!