Two years in with a doctor, the arrogance…AIBU?

[TowardsGreen]

Never noticed this with DP before. He’s a hospital doctor and has moved up the ranks. He can go into private work soon etc so he’s towards the later part of his career.

I’d never had him down as someone arrogant, in fact that’s what I loved about him. I’m a partner in a large law firm and I am surrounded by men thinking they are the bees knees at all times. Never thought DP was like this.

The last few weeks he’s become quite cocky. Saying things like ‘these people really need me’ when he’s worked 12 days straight and proceeded to complain about how hard it is (he elects to do it, he is allowed more time off). I’ve also had a comment that ‘a cancer patient needs me, I don’t know when I will be free’… sort of as if I was saying choose them or me when suggesting dinner on Wednesday. I wasn’t

I’ve never come between him and his job and don’t intend to. But is this arrogance here to stay?! I don’t think I can handle it at the office and at home, too…

@TableFlowerss the other pp isn't "wrong" as you say. Entry requirements don't always correlate with the difficulty of the course, how competitive entry to the course is also has a hand in pushing up entry requirements.

My partner is a doctor so I do have a fair idea of what is involved in a medical degree. He says that obviously you need to be smart but that it's hard work that will get you through the degree as opposed to relying on your smarts. His undergrad was molecular chemistry, followed on by a masters, before entering GEM and he himself says that his medical degree wasn't the hardest out of all his studies however the sheer volume of information that he had to learn during his medical degree was the most challenging aspect of all of his studies.

I also have a friend from school who is now a doctor. She isn't the most naturally smart person, by self admission (she actually did combined science at standard grade as opposed to individual sciences, which in the Scottish system back in the 90s, combined science was only for those who weren't deemed to be able to cope with individual sciences) however studied her backside off and got a place to do a biomedical degree at the local uni. She graduated, got work experience and managed to then win a place on the medical degree.

And a pp has pointed out degrees which are much harder than medicine, which I would wholeheartedly agree with. I would add maths as one!

[quote whataboutbob]Hilarious @badpuma. This is also good from Harry Enfield and Paul Whitehouse .[/quote]
Love it!

@Grimbelina

This has happened to so many of my (mostly) male friends in medicine and the law as they rose through the ranks... it's tiresome...

Not only the men. I still treasure the memory of a female A&E consultant who - on day 1 of her first ever consultant job and in a new hospital - told the nurses they weren't allowed to have drinks in the office while writing up notes etc, in case patients looked in and saw them 😆

Frame the Rudyard Kipling to be a man poem in your loo.
Remind him of the ceaser who had someone behind him at all times telling him you are but a man.,.

@AwaAnBileYerHeid

I've no idea why some consultants think they're god, they've got degrees, big deal, so do thousands of others up and down the country have degrees. There are much harder subjects out there to get a degree in!

But few harder to actually work in. Yes there are unnecessarily arrogant doctors but there is a lot of pressure

I’m going to make a massive generalisation here and say it’s the surgeons who have a tendency towards arrogance, the Consultant Physicians tend to be much more grounded. The surgeons think they work harder and are more important than the physicians - it’s in their heads

I could possibly cope with (although wouldn’t tolerate) a boyfriend being temporarily rude to me, but hearing him be rude to junior colleagues of his would be like a bucket of ice water over my feelings for him. Yuck.

@CovidCorvid

Just to put it in to context, a quick google at the entry level expectations, for both medicine and neuroscience at Nottingham university…..

Neuroscience AAB
Medicine AAA

So illustrates my point nicely I think and that you’re wrong

UCAS points needed for entrance to a degree course does not necessarily correlate with how hard the degree is to obtain. There’s also plenty of non medical degrees which require AAA. From a numbers point of view I’d say it’s harder to get admitted to the Bartlett to study architecture than it is to get admitted onto medicine at Nottingham. 5 years to qualify as a doctor, 7 years for architecture and I believe vet medicine as well. So yes, I could agree with the previous poster that there are harder degrees to obtain than medicine.

I absolutely disagree.

What you’re not taking in to account is the 5 years to qualify as a doctor is just the start of it. It takes several more long years on top of that to get to go consultant level.

Doctors save lives. Architects don’t…..

The NHS treats doctors above a certain level as if they walk on water and most of them start to believe it. I have worked in hospitals all over the world, the docs in the UK are, as a bunch, the most arrogant I have come across.

@TableFlowerss but that wasn't what you said... About the overall pathway to consultant level. You specifically wrote about hardest degrees. 🤷‍♀️

Oh and if architects get it wrong lives will be list, so they do save lives in their own way.

I teach medical students and have a dc doing architecture... I know which course I think is harder.

@Dontwatchfootball

The NHS treats doctors above a certain level as if they walk on water and most of them start to believe it. I have worked in hospitals all over the world, the docs in the UK are, as a bunch, the most arrogant I have come across.

My dh would dispute this! After nearly 20 years as a Consultant, 10 of those as clinical specialty lead, young managers in their 20s and 30s try to dictate to him and make serious decisions behind his back - decisions that are not in the patient’s best interests.

[quote AwaAnBileYerHeid]@TableFlowerss the other pp isn't "wrong" as you say. Entry requirements don't always correlate with the difficulty of the course, how competitive entry to the course is also has a hand in pushing up entry requirements.

My partner is a doctor so I do have a fair idea of what is involved in a medical degree. He says that obviously you need to be smart but that it's hard work that will get you through the degree as opposed to relying on your smarts. His undergrad was molecular chemistry, followed on by a masters, before entering GEM and he himself says that his medical degree wasn't the hardest out of all his studies however the sheer volume of information that he had to learn during his medical degree was the most challenging aspect of all of his studies.

I also have a friend from school who is now a doctor. She isn't the most naturally smart person, by self admission (she actually did combined science at standard grade as opposed to individual sciences, which in the Scottish system back in the 90s, combined science was only for those who weren't deemed to be able to cope with individual sciences) however studied her backside off and got a place to do a biomedical degree at the local uni. She graduated, got work experience and managed to then win a place on the medical degree.

And a pp has pointed out degrees which are much harder than medicine, which I would wholeheartedly agree with. I would add maths as one![/quote]
You could say that about any subject though, it’s so subjective. What one person finds easy, doesn’t correlate to the next person’s experience.

Someone that loves maths and word gain a first class honours degree, wouldn’t necessarily be able to complete a medical degree.

I never said other degrees aren’t difficult, I was pointing out one of the examples the pp used as being ‘far more difficult than medicine’ wasn’t correct if you go by the entry requirements.

If you disagree with that, that’s fair enough, but that’s your (and your DH) subjective opinion.

Going back to the initial point of other degrees being ‘far harder’, I categorically disagree with that point. Some will be equally as different but to suggest medicine is a walk in the park is rubbish

[quote CovidCorvid]@TableFlowerss but that wasn't what you said... About the overall pathway to consultant level. You specifically wrote about hardest degrees. 🤷‍♀️

Oh and if architects get it wrong lives will be list, so they do save lives in their own way.

I teach medical students and have a dc doing architecture... I know which course I think is harder.[/quote]
I was referring to someone saying there were far degrees than medicine. I don’t believe that to be true. If people want to argue that UCAS entry levels don’t correlate with degree difficulty that’s fair enough but to suggest that lots of degrees are much harder than medicine, is quite frankly bollocks. There will be ones that are similar level but the pp poster I was initially replying to made it sound like they were mediocre degrees and I think that’s absolutely rubbish.

You’re right about architects, but then you could say that if builders get it wrong, people could die…..

far harder I mean

@MissyB1 - he might, but I am not talking about how decisions are made, I am talking about the every day kowtowing that is expected and the way that doctors get away with behaviour which would have other people disciplined or sacked. I have never met such a rude bunch, and as I said, have worked with doctors in many different countries.

[quote Dontwatchfootball]@MissyB1 - he might, but I am not talking about how decisions are made, I am talking about the every day kowtowing that is expected and the way that doctors get away with behaviour which would have other people disciplined or sacked. I have never met such a rude bunch, and as I said, have worked with doctors in many different countries.[/quote]
Tbh the managers are worse these days. Trying to tell Consultants how to do their jobs, and treating nurses like dirt. Hospitals have become aggressive places to work in unfortunately.
I think the old guard of consultants who were treated as Gods have pretty much all retired.

[quote CovidCorvid]@TableFlowerss but that wasn't what you said... About the overall pathway to consultant level. You specifically wrote about hardest degrees. 🤷‍♀️

Oh and if architects get it wrong lives will be list, so they do save lives in their own way.

I teach medical students and have a dc doing architecture... I know which course I think is harder.[/quote]
I was laughing as I read this 😂 in that case everyone whose job has something to do with safety (like inspection engineers) could cause li

Lives to be lost

None of them actually see the people they kill. Or know their names. Or touch their bodies . And they won’t be blamed for it either

I was laughing as I read this 😂 in that case everyone whose job has something to do with safety (like inspection engineers) could cause li

@TractorAndHeadphones

Exactly!!

@TractorAndHeadphones

Lives to be lost

None of them actually see the people they kill. Or know their names. Or touch their bodies . And they won’t be blamed for it either

Exactly (again)😂

I knew what you were getting at and it’s absolutely true.

Sorry OP but this kind of arrogance is part and parcel with the majority of doctors. They tend to be very arrogant in the FY1/Junior Reg stage, chill out slightly as they move up the ST/clinical fellow ranks and then go into full blown god complex upon their full consultant post.

I've been a nurse for 15 years and worked in a lot of areas and In senior manager positions. I won't say that every single one is like this but the majority are. Upbringing and the high likelihood of private school plus lack of life experience is one aspect but the fact of the matter is our society treats doctors like they are rockstars and the hierarchy in the profession is ridiculous. I have two sons and I would never encourage them into the profession, I'll push them towards law instead

@NotPersephone

I have two sons and I would never encourage them into the profession, I'll push them towards law instead wink

Please don’t! Most legal work will be done in Manila and Calcutta within 20 years. There is a massive oversupply of lawyers that gets worse every year. The money is increasingly bad.

I’m hoping DS will do plumbing!

Hahaha, I was being slightly tongue in cheek. I'm happy with whatever they choose as long as they are happy and tbh with the way things are these days I would say plumbing, electrician, carpentry would be the best bet