Two years in with a doctor, the arrogance…AIBU?

[TowardsGreen]

Never noticed this with DP before. He’s a hospital doctor and has moved up the ranks. He can go into private work soon etc so he’s towards the later part of his career.

I’d never had him down as someone arrogant, in fact that’s what I loved about him. I’m a partner in a large law firm and I am surrounded by men thinking they are the bees knees at all times. Never thought DP was like this.

The last few weeks he’s become quite cocky. Saying things like ‘these people really need me’ when he’s worked 12 days straight and proceeded to complain about how hard it is (he elects to do it, he is allowed more time off). I’ve also had a comment that ‘a cancer patient needs me, I don’t know when I will be free’… sort of as if I was saying choose them or me when suggesting dinner on Wednesday. I wasn’t

I’ve never come between him and his job and don’t intend to. But is this arrogance here to stay?! I don’t think I can handle it at the office and at home, too…

@NotPersephone

Bollocks there’s much harder subjects to get a degree in!!!!

Erm, molecular chemistry, architecture, jurisprudence, physics, neuroscience… 🤷🏻‍♀️

Now we can all see a real live example of the OP’s complaint on this thread, which is pretty funny.

None of your examples are much harder than medicine!

I’m not a doctor (not clever enough admittedly, but that’s ok, because most people aren’t) so your point is moot.

I do know how hard it is to get to that level however.

He's talking to you as he might to a friend. Sometimes we have to let off a little steam. As long as he is good to his patients, don;t worry about it.

@Crinkle77

Surely as well it's not safe to work 12 days in a row? If he's tired it could lead to mistakes.

When dh is on for the weekend he has no choice but to work 12 days in a row, they dont have enough Consultants to have a special weekend one! And their weekdays are jam packed full.

@TowardsGreen When dh was a new Consultant he was all keen and wanted to "drive the service forwards" "make a difference" be an "innovator" etc... aaah... those long lost days! It's what the new Consultants do, they are making their name, marking their territory. They have to go the extra mile. I used to call him "our blessed martyr St Missy's dh"

Now he's been a Consultant 19 years, and he's marking down the days to retirement! He looks at the young whipper snappers and says "see ya wouldnt wanna be ya!"

@NotPersephone

Bollocks there’s much harder subjects to get a degree in!!!!

Erm, molecular chemistry, architecture, jurisprudence, physics, neuroscience… 🤷🏻‍♀️

Now we can all see a real live example of the OP’s complaint on this thread, which is pretty funny.

Just to put it in to context, a quick google at the entry level expectations, for both medicine and neuroscience at Nottingham university…..

Neuroscience AAB
Medicine AAA

So illustrates my point nicely I think and that you’re wrong ✌️

I think sometimes you get consumed by the job & it seems like life or death, at least in your DHs case it might be! I often tell DH to calm down, he's not a surgeon & no one will die (finance, Big4). He definitely sometimes get anxious though from the pressure.

Then I think as a pp said the "God complex" in medicine comes into play. They often get treated with such reverence etc. A relative is a surgeon & he can be a massive bell end but at least we tell him that.

I’m married to a senior partner in a magic circle law firm. I think you can tell a lot about a person, personally and professionally by how they treat junior staff. The qualities that mean my DH is kind and respectful ( so they tell me) of his juniors ( and quite capable of squaring up to the managing partner on their behalf) are the same qualities that make him a wonderful husband and father. I earn way less and work fewer hours. But he’s always made the time to help my career along too, and prioritises family life ( he’s taking an hour out this afternoon to walk DS round a riding arena as needs a lead rein and I’ve a report to get out).

I know dozens of doctors, lawyers and people in even bigger jobs. Some get like this, most don’t (although I reckon doctors are quite prone). I don’t think it’s a pressure thing, it’s a personality thing. And whether you have the strength of mind not to buy into an ego inflating power narrative.

**Consultants aren't people with medical degrees. That's just first year junior doctors.

Consultants are doctors who have then undergone a minimum of between five (GP) and ten (paediatrician) years of further training as junior doctors, taking several more sets of exams along the way (with failure rates of around 50%) as well as membership exams to their chosen Royal College (for example, MRCPsych exams). They will then be eligible to apply for consultant posts. Plenty of (extremely intelligent, well qualified, very experienced) doctors never become consultants at all.

Then, depending on their specialty, consultants will quite often literally be making life and death decisions on a daily basis. Lots of them will be at the forefront of the national or even international understanding of particular areas of their specialties.

So whilst I agree that the god complex that some consultants have is problematic, it's not just because they have degrees**

@Outfoxedbyrabbits

Absolutely this 👌

I can’t believe some people are that ignorant to think it’s pretty easy to become a consultant. Getting in to medical school is hard enough…..

Probably the most difficult and competitive undergraduate degree.

@TableFlowerss

**Consultants aren't people with medical degrees. That's just first year junior doctors.

Consultants are doctors who have then undergone a minimum of between five (GP) and ten (paediatrician) years of further training as junior doctors, taking several more sets of exams along the way (with failure rates of around 50%) as well as membership exams to their chosen Royal College (for example, MRCPsych exams). They will then be eligible to apply for consultant posts. Plenty of (extremely intelligent, well qualified, very experienced) doctors never become consultants at all.

Then, depending on their specialty, consultants will quite often literally be making life and death decisions on a daily basis. Lots of them will be at the forefront of the national or even international understanding of particular areas of their specialties.

So whilst I agree that the god complex that some consultants have is problematic, it's not just because they have degrees**

@Outfoxedbyrabbits

Absolutely this 👌

I can’t believe some people are that ignorant to think it’s pretty easy to become a consultant. Getting in to medical school is hard enough…..

Probably the most difficult and competitive undergraduate degree.

I agree.

In addition, surgeons have to do the most terrifying things (cutting real live people ). If you don’t have a bit of arrogance/over-confidence then you simply won’t survive in that specialty.

@TableFlowerss

is absolutely right, you actually need to have specific personality traits to make it to Consultant level. The sheer amount of dedication, drive, ambition, and self discipline needed is off the scale. There are many who don't make it.

**I agree.

In addition, surgeons have to do the most terrifying things (cutting real live people shock). If you don’t have a bit of arrogance/over-confidence then you simply won’t survive in that specialty**

Exactly. These people do literally have people’s lives in their hands and make life/death decisions daily (hourly probably)

@Crinkle77

Surely as well it's not safe to work 12 days in a row? If he's tired it could lead to mistakes.

This is normal. If you're 'on take over a weekend, you work Monday to Friday, on take and on call at night over the weekend then normal Monday to a Friday again. May not be safe but better than before the Euopean Working Time Directive came in, in 1990s

This might cheer you up - Mitchell and Webb doing the doctor and the ice cream taster

I think now might be the time to suggest you each pay equally into the family's finances, OP.

Maybe this is his way of dealing with the extra stress of his new role. I'd cut him some slack for now. Working for 12 days on end esp with the NHS as it is can't be easy.

If this is a sudden change in attitude towards work, I'd be wondering if the pull on his time was actually patients or whether there's something else...

If he’s just newly appointed as a consultant then this sounds like struggling with the responsibility and demands more than arrogance, tbh.

The step up from Senior Registrar to consultant is huge, no matter how autonomously you think you’ve been working as an SR. Suddenly, the buck absolutely stops with you. And also, one thing that took me some time to adjust to, was the sheer number of things needing to be ‘run by the consultant’, stuff I was unaware of at earlier levels of training as the consultants had dealt with it- more phonecalls/emails than ever before, and while everyone starts with “just a quick question...” or “just to let you know...” it’s never quick on the receiving end as you can be damn sure the other person is documenting “Dr X informed” so you have to scrutinise what you’re being told/asked etc.

Plus, at least where I work, we don’t get locum cover for our leave. Colleagues provide emergency cross cover only. And as the training bodies won’t allow NCHDs do clinics without a consultant present (rightly) then if I want to take leave my clinics will have to be cancelled. Two weeks leave means 4 clinics cancelled. Which means a delay in appointment times got patients, a backlog of people needing to be seen and a delay getting treatment started. That was never an issue as an NCHD, as colleagues were slotted in to cover gaps. Depending on specialty, him not being around may mean chemo start dates are delayed, surgery delayed, etc etc. It’s a huge burden knowing that your planned leave means patients will suffer. So I can understand the pressures he’s under now and would think it’s more his response to those rather than arrogance. Keep an eye for the latter though!

Agree with PP who says he sounds stressed.
My mother was a scrub nurse (the ones that work in the operating theatre). You do need a certain degree of arrogance. It takes a while for people to split their ‘hospital’ and ‘home’ personalities.
Of course some are arseholes to juniors and they don’t go far.
But if he was never like this before then is probably stress.

I think consultants have to be a bit like that for self preservation to be honest. If you don't truly believe you're the best and you are amazing at what you do then you probably dont have the confidence to make snap decisions and slice people open

Hilarious @badpuma. This is also good from Harry Enfield and Paul Whitehouse .

Just to put it in to context, a quick google at the entry level expectations, for both medicine and neuroscience at Nottingham university…..

Neuroscience AAB
Medicine AAA

So illustrates my point nicely I think and that you’re wrong

UCAS points needed for entrance to a degree course does not necessarily correlate with how hard the degree is to obtain. There’s also plenty of non medical degrees which require AAA. From a numbers point of view I’d say it’s harder to get admitted to the Bartlett to study architecture than it is to get admitted onto medicine at Nottingham. 5 years to qualify as a doctor, 7 years for architecture and I believe vet medicine as well. So yes, I could agree with the previous poster that there are harder degrees to obtain than medicine.

Is he matt hancock, busy saving lives?

Sorry OP. I was in a 7 year relationship with a surgeon. He had an excellent bedside manner and respected as a great surgeon and lovely man but we broke up because at home he was an ass. I was expected to not have any career ambition, clean the house to perfection and when he finally told me, 'you can have what you want in 10 years, but until then it is all about me'. I left. Working alongside these guys for many years gave me the impression lots are very similar. Sorry!

Erm he's right. He DOES have an incredibly important job for society and it should be valued as such- he's literally saving peoples lives, most people's jobs are not really needed or beneficial for the greater good, other than for paying the bills, including in a law firm.

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