Dating - are my expectations too old fashioned?

[alexa677]

So went for a first date on Wednesday night. Had a nice time, no massive initial sparks but he seemed nice and we had loads in common so I thought it would be nice to get to know him.

He text me later that afternoon to say he had a nice time and then later that night asked me out again. I said yes and he asked when suited me so we're going out on Sunday.

I thought him texting the same day after the date and arranging a date the same day for the first day I was free was a good sign but arranging it has been like drawing teeth!

This is the bit I don't know if it's old fashioned....I'm very independent, been single mum a while, got a good career, very self sufficient but when it comes to dating I like the guy to take charge but in my recent experience guys seem to be leaving it more and more to me. I'm not sure if it's lack of interest, laziness, or them trying to make sure they're doing something we want to do......

Today's conversation:

Him: so what do you fancy doing on Sunday?
Me: the weather doesn't look great and I need to be back for DD but we could go for lunch?
Him: sure, where do you fancy?
Me: I don't mind, do you want to stay local (we live very close to each other) or go into the city?
Him: I honestly dont mind
Me: okay, well if we go local xx is nice, or we could make a day of it and go into the city
Him: oh I've heard that place is nice but they don't take bookings
Me: okay, let's go into city. What kind of food do you like?
Him: anything

🤦🏽‍♀️🤦🏽‍♀️🤦🏽‍♀️🤦🏽‍♀️🤦🏽‍♀️

I totally understand I'm not being decisive either but is it wrong in 2021 for a guy to say. I'd like to take you out to xx is that ok? Ok, ive booked a table for x time

What is wrong with
"I thought we might...."
"Would you like to....?"
"How about..."

None of those are controlling, but does suggest they have given it a little thought.

I just read that as him being Easygoing and not minding.

[quote Suprima]@sammylady37

Asking a man to listen to your hobbies and plan a second date…princessy?

The bar is so, so, so low [/quote]
No, simpering “surprise me” oh so coyly when he has done the very reasonable thing of asking you what you’d like to do, being all passive yourself and bemoaning him for not ‘taking charge’, expecting someone you’ve only met once before to jump through hoops to surprise you, setting him up to fail at a task (cos if he doesn’t read your mind and get it right, he hasn’t listened obviously) is princess-like.

@Suprima
I’m just at the early stages of dating at the moment, not coupled up at all, in fact I’m off to meet my date at a mutually agreed location soon,
Not sure what you mean by angry, I’m pretty happy with my rural ways

Why are you on this thread if you are partnered up? Are you just angry that some women want to do nice things and would like the man to take the lead and do this?

Why shouldn’t he be on this thread? There’s no rule or tradition that only active daters can comment on dating threads. And I don’t see any anger in his posts.

[quote JustAnother0ldMan]@Suprima
I’m just at the early stages of dating at the moment, not coupled up at all, in fact I’m off to meet my date at a mutually agreed location soon,
Not sure what you mean by angry, I’m pretty happy with my rural ways[/quote]
Mutuality agreed location? Oh say it ain’t so! You mean she didn’t flutter her eyelashes at you, take a sip of her Prosecco and murmur ‘surprise me’, leading you to have a deep desire to please her and deliver a date that shows how much attention you’ve paid to her every utterance? Gosh, you utter cad!

@sammylady37

But that’s because I honestly don’t care about the feelings of one of the 450 or so ‘likes’ on my OLD profiles. I have very clear ideas for how I like men to act, based on how you can read into people’s behaviour. I was far too busy to give someone the benefit of the doubt when their actions are made it very clear that they are not the man I am looking for. I don’t need to keep giving men second chances, or opportunities.

If I wanted to go for afternoon tea or out for sushi, I can take myself there- or go with a girlfriend? I don’t need to tell a random man on the internet that I would like to go there with him. Part of dating is the courting, the romance!

Again, if you think a man using a date to get to know you better, remembering, then using that information to plan nice things for you to do is ‘jumping through hoops’- you really need to develop a sense of self worth. Not asking for the moon here, asking for someone to show an interest and listen!

Poor bloke. He’s probably trying to show you he respects women and doesn’t want to take on the traditional man’s role. Why should a man make the decision? Why do women expect to be ‘taken out’. Ffs, this is not the 1950’s.

[quote JustAnother0ldMan]@Suprima
I’m just at the early stages of dating at the moment, not coupled up at all, in fact I’m off to meet my date at a mutually agreed location soon,
Not sure what you mean by angry, I’m pretty happy with my rural ways[/quote]
Enjoy!

But…I wasn’t suggesting anger at your rural location, it was your anger at posters having the audacity to suggest that OP is not wrong to want something suggested as a second date.

I’m pleased that you have met a good match and you like country walks and family time together, but the OP is not you. She wants her date to plan something, and she isn’t being unreasonable to want that.

Again, if you think a man using a date to get to know you better, remembering, then using that information to plan nice things for you to do is ‘jumping through hoops’- you really need to develop a sense of self worth. Not asking for the moon here, asking for someone to show an interest and listen!

Ah, the MN bingo of ‘self worth’ You didn’t disappoint!
My self-worth is just fine, thanks. I just have a different outlook on life and many things in it to you.

Thanks everyone I for your replies.

Really interesting to see the range of opposing views! I never expected there to be so much difference!

For the record I'd say I'm the opposite of a princess type. I've lived alone with my DD for 6 years and am fully self sufficient, support myself financially, great friends and family etc

I guess I've just hd such bad experiences OLD that I'm second guessing things. I had wondered if him wanting me to choose was a lack of effort or interest but this seemed to contradict the fact he was keen for a second date so I was confused!

Now that I've picked somewhere he has booked, is picking me up and has now also text to say he's looking forward to seeing me again. So I think I misinterpreted the situation.

Personally id still prefer a man to take control of the situation and take the lead but I appreciate that's not everyone's tastes! I appreciate I'm quite contradictory as I like to remain independent when dating and if man ever showed any signs of controlling behaviour of run a mile! No wonder some men find women confusing!!!

Everyone's different I guess. I like really masculine-looking men, but don't know how much I'd like them to take charge of what we do (though I used to like that in the bedroom. )

I think it'd be like my ex who thought he knew more about fashion/clothes than me and would take me out and 'help' me pick out clothes. If I told him I tended to like warmer colours, he would just ignore that.

I can see that a man always choosing a restaurant for a woman might be a bad sign. But then, I don't even like them paying for my meal (except in a taking turns kind of way later on maybe.)

@alexa677 It sounds like youu're not that into him anyway.

@me4real It's such a hard thing for me to explain so I don't know that I'm coming across properly.

A man picking my clothes for me would be a complete no go, although I'd be happy for a partner to come shopping and show an interest but I'd always go with what I thought in the end.

With the dating thing I guess it's more of "would you like to go to this new place for lunch?" or "I thought we could go watch a movie after dinner, what do you think?"

The impression I was getting from this guy was more that he wasn't too bothered about actually going out but I don't think that's the case now after we've chatted a bit more

I'm also not sure if I like him. In the past I love been guilty of writing guys off too quickly if there were no immediate fireworks or chemistry so I'm working on trying not be close things down too soon!

This time last year I'd have written this guy off due to the lack of fireworks within 30 mins of meeting plus his indecisiveness. Some of the reasons I've not gone on 2nd dates are. Or laughable (looking back) and after 6 years of being single I'm starting to think it might be me 😂

No wonder some men find women confusing

Fuck that (if you'll pardon my french) There's nothing complicated about wanting what you want. But tell him.

Everybody is confusing if they're not open about who they are.

@alexa677

Stop second guessing yourself. If you want fireworks, you want fireworks. The more time you spend trying to work out if Mr Damp Squib is your guy, the less firework men you meet. The more time you spend working out if Mr Um, Where shall We Go? the less time you spend meeting men who've booked a table before you've blinked.

Maybe you will have to meet 100 more men before a guy you're compatible with comes along, but it's a numbers game. You can't waste time on lots of Mr Nearlys.

I'm starting to think it might be me

It is. But why is this always said in a negative way? You are choosy, you have good boundaries, and you know what you want. Don't lower your standards to let people in just because you're getting closer to 'Oh, anyone'll do, really...'

Glad you got it sorted @alexa677

I'm shocked at some of the sexist nonsense on here (and I'm quite old!) Women are not some treasure to be impressed, we are not princesses. I don't need a knight in shining armour to tell me which restaurant we're going to. There are some really old-fashioned views. Please remember those views come from a time when men did all the earning, and women were 'treated' to a night out.

If you want equality in your relationship it has to be there at the start. That means two adults meeting as equals. Both with the same ability to surprise / treat / spoil the other. Both with the same ability to make decisions, take the lead, be the strong one.

It's best if you see each other as equals from day 1. Not one person who has to take charge and impress, and the other being passive and waiting to be impressed.

I don’t think it’s old fashioned, you just find a man who can take the initiative sometimes, attractive. Frankly we should all want that unless they want a manchild. If you expected him to take the lead every time it would be different, but he suggested a second date, so it’s hardly an outrageous expectation.

Having said that, I wouldn’t write him off yet, he might just be trying to be polite.

@IsThePopeCatholic

Poor bloke. He’s probably trying to show you he respects women and doesn’t want to take on the traditional man’s role. Why should a man make the decision? Why do women expect to be ‘taken out’. Ffs, this is not the 1950’s.

No, it’s not the 1950s, yet here we are, still shaming women for what they are or aren’t attracted to in men, like it’s a personal insult to them.

OP is allowed to want to be in a relationship with a man who takes some initiative.

No wonder some men find women confusing

Funnily enough you’ve highlighted the exact problem in your own sentence. You were careful enough to say some men, where as those men are confused by women because they expect that we should all think the same way, like the same stuff etc. We’re individuals, just like them.

@Naunet

No wonder some men find women confusing

Funnily enough you’ve highlighted the exact problem in your own sentence. You were careful enough to say some men, where as those men are confused by women because they expect that we should all think the same way, like the same stuff etc. We’re individuals, just like them.

@Naunet I completely agree we all want different things, that's definitely been highlighted by this post!

My comment about some men finding some women confusing was in relation to me saying how contradictory my own views are, I.e. I like them taking the lead in some ways but other examples from other PPs if way men have taken the lead would be a complete turn off to me as I'd see it as controlling

I like men taking control in some ways and not in others! While this is completely my prerogative it's a lot for someone to figure out based on one date!

If he picked and paid first time, and you are paying this time...surely you pick and book?

I also think it's courteous of him to ask you what you'd like to do - that seems more "old-fashioned" and elegant to me than making an assumption about where you'd like to go at this stage (which would be rather oafish). Horses for courses I guess, but there are plenty of bullish men about OP if this one doesn't float your boat because he's asked what you'd like to do and given you the choice.

I would actually find it quite rude if a new date didn't give me options about where to go. I want to have a say in the restaurants I go to and activities I do! And you can't really assume what someone you don't know will enjoy based on an interests list.

I've always assumed that offering the other person a choice is the courteous thing to do.

In these situations I would reply with a selection of places I want to go to and let him choose between them. The OP's text conversation was infuriatingly vague to read on both ends. You're planning where to eat, not playing dating games.

@Genegenieee

If he picked and paid first time, and you are paying this time...surely you pick and book?

Yup I'm starting to feel that way now!

That's where I've realised how contradictory my own views are!! More than happy to pay on the second date if he paid for the first, or always split. I actually feel quite strongly about that to be seen as an equal and not a princess.

I don't even make sense to myself!! I guess my worry was that he wasn't interested if he wasn't suggesting somewhere but it doesn't seem to be the case.

It seems he's been really quick to reply to your texts, I think he seems keen?