Dating - are my expectations too old fashioned?

[alexa677]

So went for a first date on Wednesday night. Had a nice time, no massive initial sparks but he seemed nice and we had loads in common so I thought it would be nice to get to know him.

He text me later that afternoon to say he had a nice time and then later that night asked me out again. I said yes and he asked when suited me so we're going out on Sunday.

I thought him texting the same day after the date and arranging a date the same day for the first day I was free was a good sign but arranging it has been like drawing teeth!

This is the bit I don't know if it's old fashioned....I'm very independent, been single mum a while, got a good career, very self sufficient but when it comes to dating I like the guy to take charge but in my recent experience guys seem to be leaving it more and more to me. I'm not sure if it's lack of interest, laziness, or them trying to make sure they're doing something we want to do......

Today's conversation:

Him: so what do you fancy doing on Sunday?
Me: the weather doesn't look great and I need to be back for DD but we could go for lunch?
Him: sure, where do you fancy?
Me: I don't mind, do you want to stay local (we live very close to each other) or go into the city?
Him: I honestly dont mind
Me: okay, well if we go local xx is nice, or we could make a day of it and go into the city
Him: oh I've heard that place is nice but they don't take bookings
Me: okay, let's go into city. What kind of food do you like?
Him: anything

🤦🏽‍♀️🤦🏽‍♀️🤦🏽‍♀️🤦🏽‍♀️🤦🏽‍♀️

I totally understand I'm not being decisive either but is it wrong in 2021 for a guy to say. I'd like to take you out to xx is that ok? Ok, ive booked a table for x time

[quote Suprima]@sammylady37

I’m not asking for him to whisk her to Sardinia on their 2nd date and plan a candlelit dinner on the beach and a flashmob

It’s simply listening to when she said ‘I like Korean food’ or ‘I studied history at university’, and booking some bloody museum tickets or taking her out for Korean fried chicken and karaoke.

It’s about interest - not demanding a man puts you on a pedestal and treats you like a princess! What a strange way to read into it!

And if a man likes a woman- he will WANT to surprise her with a nice date. And man who would be put off by that is not a man worth spending time on. There are better ones out there.[/quote]
This is okay for 20 somethings living in big cities, but for us old farts living in rural nowhere where the local Harvester is seen as the fine dining, things are a bit different, Korea karaoke is kinda hard to find

@JustAnother0ldMan

I don’t really understand the point you’re making?

It was an example. The point was that it’s important for a man to use the 1st date to find out about a woman, listen to her, then plan something nice for them to do depending on what she would enjoy?

I don’t really understand what you living rurally has to do with that? I’d imagine the woman you were dating has interests in your local area?

[quote Suprima]@sammylady37

I’m not asking for him to whisk her to Sardinia on their 2nd date and plan a candlelit dinner on the beach and a flashmob

It’s simply listening to when she said ‘I like Korean food’ or ‘I studied history at university’, and booking some bloody museum tickets or taking her out for Korean fried chicken and karaoke.

It’s about interest - not demanding a man puts you on a pedestal and treats you like a princess! What a strange way to read into it!

And if a man likes a woman- he will WANT to surprise her with a nice date. And man who would be put off by that is not a man worth spending time on. There are better ones out there.[/quote]
The original post of yours to which I was responding was one in which you described ‘surprise me’ as coy and said it wouldn’t put off a man who was interested. I was simply pointing out that it may well put off a man, for a number of reasons, and I stand over that. It’s quite the generalisation to think a man who likes a woman will want to be tasked with surprising her on a second date. Some may well want this and enjoy the challenge, others not so much. You cannot reasonably say that any man put off by that is not worth spending time on.

@sammylady37

I absolutely can, as a man not being able to plan a second date shows he:

a) isn’t bothered
b) is passive
c) hasn’t listened to a thing that you have said.

Either answer isn’t a goer.

Regarding ‘surprise me’- I was agreeing with a previous poster that this is a good response if you wanted to give someone a chance if they are acting passive. I am not suggesting you match with hundreds of men on tinder and announce ‘HELLO, SURPRISE ME! ’ to all of them.

But even then- I still don’t understand why you are seeing this as a ‘challenge’ if a woman wants to be surprised? It’s not a challenge. Again, it’s not a flashmob and a west end medley being performed in her name, after he walks through fire for her- it’s making a dinner reservation or booking some bloody tickets.

*I absolutely can, as a man not being able to plan a second date shows he:

a) isn’t bothered
b) is passive
c) hasn’t listened to a thing that you have said*

Ah here. Nobody has said he can’t plan a date, the thing being discussed is his response to ‘surprise me’, a command which some would find irritating, some would find a bit presumptuous, some would find pressurising, and some would feel it’s likely to set the tone for future expectations. Of course, some would relish it. Takes all sorts.

Not sure why you’re introducing hyperbole into it with the whisking off, west end medley etc.

And a ‘coy’ surprise me is pretty passive itself, so hardly a good response if one is annoyed that the other seems passive 🤷‍♀️

@Suprima
I think we must move in different worlds, the people in looking to date (am dating), have interests like seeing family and dog walking in the countryside, they don’t really fit into your metropolitan lifestyle ideas

Glad you figured out your second date :D

Honestly, I think guys these days are just force-fed so much equality speak (not a bad thing) that many of them are genuinely trying to be considerate.

One person I dated in the past had this cool idea that we take it in turns to pick three options to send to each other for each date. That way, nobody was being bossy, but we also had the fun of choice, without too much indecision. So like, for third date, you could say "I was thinking one of this options - YOU choose!"

He might be indecisive and passive in general. Sometimes the sweetest people are. But if you develop a relationship, there's no reason you can't express your preferences in terms of decisiveness!

it's usually been a sign of interest of a man was keen to organise something he was keen, he text and asked you out. He just isn't bothered where or is trying to not do the boorish man thing of taking over. I think it's a really difficult balance because his mates have probably told him "oh women don't like pushy men, let her choose, it's not like when you used to date" and you're wanting him to pick a restaurant and order for you and choose the wine

Third date tell him its his pick

The point was that it’s important for a man to use the 1st date to find out about a woman, listen to her, then plan something nice for them to do depending on what she would enjoy?
Why? Why isn't it about her listening and picking something he would enjoy? Or a discussion about mutual interests? Why must HE prove hes worthy or her whilst she just has to sit there and judge

I'd say he's just trying to please you and he wants to make sure you have as nice a time as possible.

It's not being old-fashioned, it's having no agency and you probably picked that up from your parents.

It's very tempting to say "Oh he has to do all the running" because that means we can stay in our safe little bunker and not have to show any vulnerability.

@SleepingStandingUp

The point was that it’s important for a man to use the 1st date to find out about a woman, listen to her, then plan something nice for them to do depending on what she would enjoy? Why? Why isn't it about her listening and picking something he would enjoy? Or a discussion about mutual interests? Why must HE prove hes worthy or her whilst she just has to sit there and judge

Exactly. There’s a suggestion it should be all one way traffic here. Princess personality alert!

I don't know if it has anything to do with a person's sex. I'm female and I'd probably be the same as him, because I'd want the other person to enjoy the experience and it be to their taste.

As a PP says, if you see him a 3rd time then he can choose where you go.

I think they can get a bit scared to be seen as over bearing. You need to guide him. And do it now so he knows how you want to be treated - start as you mean to go on.

Something like "city sounds good but you pick the place, surprise me!"

I think a man who decides early on that he will choose venue and style of second date is off-putting. Any decent equal relationship will be two people saying what they fancy and finding something they'd both enjoy. Two people just saying 'your choice' to each other and no-one putting their preference forward is just mutually tiresome.

It doesn't matter if you're old fashioned or whatever, if you want someone who takes the lead then then don't accept anything but that

It’s simplylisteningto when she said ‘I like It’s simplylisteningto when she said ‘I like Korean food’ or ‘I studied history atuniversity’, and booking some bloody museum tickets or taking her out for Korean fried chicken and karaoke.

This is so much. The most romantic date I ever had was a cream tea bought to Soho square. Not expensive not flashy but so well thought out and executed. "I don't mind shows f*ck all imagination.

I don’t know why you think what you are saying is so groundbreaking That’s the standard now and it’s odd to think like I do, the fifties throwback that I apparently am 😂

Women are generally going into dates with the aim of making the man like them, rather than vetting them and deciding if they like them.

There are plenty of men who think like you describe, and believe they are the prize despite having 12 tinder matches and a photo roll full of dick pics. Sadly, in my age group, there are more than enough women who think they are being very liberated for rushing around, planning cute dates for them. Or offering to cook for them showing what a domestic goddess they are! If this turns into a relationship, the woman quite often ends up carrying the relationship themselves, not being equal partners.

I believe women should be as choosy as possible. The risks to us are much, much higher should we entertain an absolute creep. Expecting the man to demonstrate that he has listened to your hobbies and takes an interest in what you like is a form of self-preservation.

If a man doesn’t enhance your life and make things exciting, what’s the point? It’s online dating, not a charity.

[quote JustAnother0ldMan]@Suprima
I think we must move in different worlds, the people in looking to date (am dating), have interests like seeing family and dog walking in the countryside, they don’t really fit into your metropolitan lifestyle ideas[/quote]
You’re taking women on walks? And to meet your family?

Those aren’t dates.

Rural date ideas:

Horse riding
National trust
Train day out into the nearest city
Renting bikes
Afternoon tea at a nice rural hotel
Backyard cinema in your garden (after you have met a few times)
Farmer’s market
Vineyard/artisan food tour

Do you want any more suggestions?

@sammylady37

Asking a man to listen to your hobbies and plan a second date…princessy?

The bar is so, so, so low

In fact the more I think about this, the more crap I think this is. I accept I haven't been on anything resembling a date for 25 years, but even meeting mates/mum friends you make an effort to think of something to suggest: that new coffee place, the out of town soft play, NT property.

@Suprima
Oh wow thanks, the pair of us have only lived in the country for about 60 years between us,
Going the National Trust - well, would never of thought of that 🤫

Prolific dater here:

You're being old fashioned and 'precious' (sorry).

There was nothing wrong with that initial conversation and men can't win these days (said as a mother of a young adult male). If they take control they don't respect women's choices/opinions and if they don't they're flaky.

[quote JustAnother0ldMan]@Suprima
Oh wow thanks, the pair of us have only lived in the country for about 60 years between us,
Going the National Trust - well, would never of thought of that 🤫[/quote]
Why are you on this thread if you are partnered up? Are you just angry that some women want to do nice things and would like the man to take the lead and do this?

‘Metropolitan ideas’ More like shaming women for having standards.